|
| Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - Misc. Discussion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
posted June 07, 2011 05:01 PM |
|
|
Quote:
For anyone that is working on the Hall of Decision design.
I've had an idea and fashioned another map as a background. This map is quite a bit different than the first maps.
1. The faction-selection-circles show where Heroes could start.
2. All players start in the middle in the Dwarven Hall and from their the "labyrinths" run outward. This should make for a lot of running back and foth and crossing paths of other players. (Chat might be fun) I've chosen "Fire. Water, Earth and Air/Wind as an elemental theme and I see that as a "nod to the magic of "5.5 E.E.
3. Hopefully this lay-out will give you some ideas.
Good luck
labyrinth
I will put them all together into a central place on the EE website. My comments are coming soon. 
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 07, 2011 05:47 PM |
|
|
I DO HOPE that we have some bold and creative folks out there that are seeing this as a great opportunity, running with various ideas and working "behind the scenes".
Btw. loved your Tolkien and Jackson reference. I also share your thoughts about "the magic" that is all around us in this world. "Tolkien's trees" got me headed in the right direction long ago. I have some towering Sweet-gums out front that I think he'd treasure. The leaves are star-shaped, and the limbs/bark...are quite nicely done.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 09, 2011 12:23 AM |
|
|
I added a new task for the Hall of Decision at the Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence website. All our sample maps are now accessible from there.
I had now a more detailed look at our samples and here are my first comments how we can go about it:
Basics first, the size of the template (sample) maps should be impossible to allow any map maker to reuse our samples. The file size is no problem, and it is always possible to leave large areas filled simply with rock if their is too much space.
Regarding ergonomics, the second sample is very dark, and I had even with the curtains completely drawn difficulty to see what is on the map. It makes you tense, just trying to spot things, and people with asthma or seizures will have problems. We should avoid designs like this. The third sample is much better in this respect. That is not to say something against the subtle lighting effects, but we do not need completely dark areas. The HoD playing mode will automatically limit vision within the game, so black areas will occur automatically and be lit adequately by the light sources you place.
The beauty of the second sample will hopefully inspire a couple people. Don't let you be discouraged by the close corridor design. It's very difficult to navigate visually and it will be improved. These very close corridors tend to confuse people, the designs should be wider, more grand.
In general I would like to suggest the grid layout I sketched out, 4-line, 5-line, 6-line grids and larger.
From the concept, I think we can start indeed as Markkur and others suggested with placing tons of random stuff that trigger in different variations, the swan and angels idea, coins and wishes at the fountains, ambushes and the like. If there is enough of this it will make every playthrough unique, probably no player witnessing everything even after dozens of visits.
But we will need more, a more grand design behind it, a large grid of royal dwarven halls with some scheme.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 09, 2011 02:52 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 14:54, 09 Jun 2011.
|
I'm glad you've stated impossible. "Room to grow" is seldom a bad idea Even with the additional two-map-sizes jump the last time, I still wanted some more space.
I've had one very positive feedback about the second map. (I don't know if he's seen the last). With the near-absence of ANY response to my backdrop-efforts, I think that I need to get this next one; "to a more finished-state" and in a place where HC's input could be responding to "choices". I'm not sure what the hold-up is, but I can guess it's hugely about the lack of time. This task/project is not one for, "OK, I've got a free-minute, now where are those maps and pages of ideas?".
With that in mind, if I do more, I hope more "will" conribute. I don't know...just trying to listen to an unheard voice in a imaginary two-way discussion. Gollum! Gollum!
About the "degree of darkness" I have a great idea that will address that, but it will come later...after a lot more work.
I'm back to the drawing board today.
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 10, 2011 01:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I'm glad you've stated impossible. "Room to grow" is seldom a bad idea Even with the additional two-map-sizes jump the last time, I still wanted some more space.
I've had one very positive feedback about the second map. (I don't know if he's seen the last). With the near-absence of ANY response to my backdrop-efforts, I think that I need to get this next one; "to a more finished-state" and in a place where HC's input could be responding to "choices". I'm not sure what the hold-up is, but I can guess it's hugely about the lack of time. This task/project is not one for, "OK, I've got a free-minute, now where are those maps and pages of ideas?".
With that in mind, if I do more, I hope more "will" conribute. I don't know...just trying to listen to an unheard voice in a imaginary two-way discussion. Gollum! Gollum!
About the "degree of darkness" I have a great idea that will address that, but it will come later...after a lot more work.
I'm back to the drawing board today.
Cheers, Markkur.
We get the Hall of Decision going. Between the two of us, you as a gifted map maker and me as the one who can do all the required programming, we have all the skills we need. Even if it takes me a good deal of prodding to get you adopting eventually the grid layout I suggested. 
I just wished, as Markkur already explained, we had more people seeing this as a serious effort and a big opportunity. I will eventually put in more time to do the necessary part of the design, background schemes, triggers and advanced dynamic dungeon stuff, although other tasks will have to wait in turn. The Hall of Decision, and the Right of Conquest, can be stellar additions to the game, even to the point that people think of a game as being divided into different stages, the opening and building phase, the exploration and conquest, and the end game (HoD, RoC) and that each will promise fun.
The project is now beyond the point where I can address everything and work on every request, and will focus only on the important and urgent tasks. Keep in mind, if you help us out here and contribute to our effort, we will be able to move faster and work earlier on other features you would like to see completed.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 10, 2011 03:23 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 16:40, 10 Jun 2011.
|
Quote:
...we have all the skills we need.
Absolutely. It's just a plain shame that it will require more time than if we would have a small team at work on this. I'll share a vision here now in hopes of generating some gusto. If you have the time we can brainstorm it a bit, "before" I've went very far on my present idea.
Quote:
Even if it takes me a good deal of prodding to get you adopting eventually the grid layout I suggested.
Hmmm, I wonder, if the new inspiration map is called..."Downtown", if that would be a step in that direction?
Here's a new "mind-map"<VBG>
I've been watching a tribute to Disney. I'll have a wee bit o' fun and write something in that spirit.
Labwork:
During the 4th Anniv. segment, his' theme-parks were remembered.
Gold powder poured into bowl.
Then I recalled my own RoC design with "all factions represented" and a couple ideas from previous HoDs.
A couple of pinchs of "idea-dust" added
Then came "remembering your grid".
I added this borrowed yeast and stirred with a large silver wish-wisk.
Then my spin on your "magic-cells" from E.E. emerged again from a semi-dormant state.
I poured that sparkling liquid into the softly-glowing mix.
At about this moment; my main idea was pelted like a tin-roof in a hail-storm, with too many ideas that turned the thing into a massive spiderweb of destination/experience possibilities much too large for a single impossible map
Just then I knocked down an end-wall support for the large shelf just near my work-table and instantly, many sorts of dry and wet concoctions randomly fell into my silver mental-metal-mixing-bowl.
The blast was fortunate. As I slowly stood back up from the rubble of thoughts, many small ones were beyond recognition; wisps and vapors slowly swirled together in a wonderful faery-fashion, so that I could see a vague outline of how the many things could be one really good cake.
The Cake:
1. I've made a large Dwarven "city" in the center. There are many rooms of various sizes and many open corners. Many of the structures that can be found in H5 will be here and there within the city limits.
2. From the central grid will be passages that lead to chambers of various sizes.
Icing:
Downtown:
1. The King's mausoleum is at the town-center and looking quite grand.
2. Many of the structures that can be found in H5 will be here and there within the city limits.
3. In some of the "corners" can be "events"
Passageways
1.Even though they are for getting about; there can be some "scenic-views" that have a purpose and some that do not.
2. "Dead-ends" and "Forks" seem a good idea.
Caverns and Labyrinths
1. Each faction has a dedicated Labyrinth.
2. Fire and Water caverns are stll good to me.
3.  My wife and I have been investigating the various magic terrains and trying to come up with a way to represent them on the map.
e.g on the last:
We have learning structures and <imo> they would have been purposely built on the "REFINED" tiles. And, over time and use could even "project that magic outward" thus increasing "Experience" gained on the adjacent tile area (can grow over time) if battles are fought on those tiles.
One last thought: ...for now
<IMO> "Life and Death" stand above all, so they should have all the other magics fall under the two. Good and Evil is the way we humans tend to look at RL so this seems a natural fit to me. Anyway, on that note, we have a "go-between" with the age-old "will o' the wisps and the "Bog" they represent. There is both life and death within the green slime
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 15, 2011 07:42 PM |
|
|
Markkur has provided a bigger more fully realized sample called Downtown, now available at the Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence website. Again kudos for your work.
I think Downtown is a big step forward and comes closer to my vision. I wouldn't mind if the entire underground level is a dwarven hall grid. The corridors do not need to be wider than in our first small dungeon sample. I couldn't check this in-game what gives me normally a much better understanding of the proportions, but if the corridors are wide enough that two hostile heroes can pass each other, it's right.
Generally, I would favour a wide grid that goes over the entire level, but there can be plenty of space between the corridors, that is apparently just rock for things randomly created there by the game. Hidden passages, chambers, portals, treasures, whatever.
Areas like those at the fringe of Downtown, the bog for example, are fine. Just make them appear naturally in the dwarven labyrinth that these look like water seeped in from above, destroyed part of the hall and created its own bog. But don't have them a single large chamber. That is they can be in a large chamber, but the pathways should be more grid-like, not necessarily regular, so that players can be in the same chamber but still have distance to avoid mandatory fights. In general, every object on the map should be accessible by two routes, e.g. not in a dead end, but it's fine if it is along one road (two directions = two routes).
You can do other things like fallen rocks that block passages, heaps of debris, crags in the ground or magma pouring out and consuming a part of the halls. Not necessarily impassable, rather an Inferno area.
Lots of grid space, many corridors, lots of rooms, interesting in-betweens, strategically placed fountains, that's the idea.
I will add to it in the game custom rules for the adventure map objects, they can work completely different than on the main map, randomly resetting obstacles and portals, quakes, randomly generated hidden passages and so on. And we can top this off, with all kinds of events in a multitude of possible places being triggered, again randomly. Ambushs, magic traps, teleport traps, all ideas welcome. 
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 15, 2011 09:13 PM |
|
|
More work has already been done on "Downtown" and it will be updated very soon. I'll add some of your suggestions and blow out the edges, to engulf much of the Earth.
I wish this Editor had a lot more objects to work with. Maybe one day, we can go there.
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 17, 2011 07:03 PM |
|
|
Markkur was in his laboratory again and has produced for us a better glimpse of the ancient dwarven city aka Hall of Decision. Thanks once more. It is available together with the other sample maps at the Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence website.
It indeed feels like we are heading in the right direction here. Markkur, can you provide a little bit more inspiration to the folks to imagine what gameplay you had in mind when you created the places? Just a short explanation of the backdrop, maybe spiced with some vision.
We definitely are getting closer to the point where it does make sense to create the special Hall of Decision gamemode so that people can start testing and playing in the Hall of Decision.
Here is my new batch of suggestions/ideas:
More a technicality: can you make the map playable? It's much better to get to grips with what it contains and its proportions if it can be loaded in the game proper, with full effects and a more versatile camera. This will also allow me to start developing/testing the HoD gamemode.
The layout is much better this time around. Still, I believe we have to come to grips with how much space individual elements consume. In general, the big open areas need to be more fragmented, for example the university (upper left). It can be one chamber, that's fine, but I'd prefer it, if there would be individual passageways and the like for players to keep apart.
The maze (top, center-right) and some other regions within the dwarven walls proper are just passages and walls. It would be better, if you could give it the form of the downtown blocks found typically in American cities. One side of each block can contain four small rooms to give you an idea of the dimensions.
The size of the small rooms in the lower right corner is perfectly sufficient, but there is no problem having rooms of diverse sizes and shapes. After all it should not be monotonous. The idea of the small rooms is to contain treasure, quest artifacts, monsters/ghosts that ambush you, traps, portals and much more. None of this is really big, so smaller room sizes allow for more to be on the map.
The other reason why I recommend the blocks is that if you have these in a size that these provide access to four small rooms, there will be enough space for other objects to appear in the rock behind the small rooms. But other blocksizes are well worth experimenting with, three rooms a side, or five.
I see what you mean with it would be nice to have more adventure map objects in the editor. Proper doors for the side chambers and much more. We can get to this step once people figure out how we can load new 3D models into the game database. From there to have them available in the editor (and on the map) is but a small step.
Really nice work on the steam driven dwarven workshop.
All in all, I believe after a couple more refinements it's time to work on the custom gameplay elements, the ambushes, quests, events and so on, and get the hall to live.
edit
Do you have some adventure map object or effect that looks like a force field?
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 17, 2011 07:24 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 20:42, 17 Jun 2011.
|
Ok, notes taken and back to the lab
I'll make this playable today.
About the "force-field"; There are very few effects to select (another needed change). The one I am using over the Founts (Aura I think)may be the best <imo> But I will take another look with that effect in mind
Edit= @all... Back in a bit with some ideas/info.
Edit2=
@All
Five Fount Sites
Orange {55,278}
“University City“, or The Mage’s Retreat” or whatever else.
I think that this would be a great place for “learning or guidance for the Quest. This area will be changed but it's the idea that can be captured.
Green {90,105}
"Bog Area"
No real thoughts here other than providing a 'contrast" to the Halls. <imo> Like lighting; very important to game experience.
Blue {84,154}
"Underground Lake"
More of the same. but, water can be very handy
Red {268,88}
"Dwarven work-area that’s encountered a lava problem" “Encounter a set-back and have to retrieve a fire artifact to access the fire-fount?”
Teal {300,274}
"Nice elegant pool for privileged dwarves and only a most elite Hero"? Need to be a level to reach this Fount?
Also @ All
As far as a clear vision, I’m not there yet. Anyone that makes maps knows it can be quite time-consuming. That is why I have wanted to inspire some folks to create a story-line. Teams always work much faster. With Wizard Q required to spend most of his time in code, and Lab-assistant-mwaahh, investing loads of time in the Editor, we really could use some more help to travel faster.
Fyi, I am approaching this thus far, as trying to bring a visual to life, of what Q is seeing in his mind’s eye. This does not make me the best candidate to see “possibilities”, well...not ALL the possibilities. Atm, the best I can do is; to create “a great backdrop” and offer some “off-the-cuff stuff”
My wife is doing me a favor and making a list of “Victory conditions” from H3’s editor. Yes, I’m clutching straws but you never know, “transport artifact” can and should be one of many “elements/events” in this world.
This is only one of many “objectives” that can cover loads of sites and experiences, just like in scenarios or campaigns.
Maybe a good tip might be; “Make your own hand-drawn-sketch by placing key locations and areas <atm> (also dreaming up a new one) and plotting the flow of the quest across the map. Then inserting the events that can occur as the road is traveled. You could then make a bulleted event-list and number them, then place that number along “your” route. Not much, but a start.
Multiple Doors are all over the map, the “Rainbow Hall” {207,43} or the “King’s Mausoleum” {162,156} all await purpose. Multiple doors invite a lot, e.g. 4 parts of the Dwarven Artifact? The Four Tomes? The Hall should have something really important happen there. Since we have five colored Founts, something ties them all together there? The majestic KM @ city-center, could be…”journey’s-end” as you complete some old un-done throw back to an earlier time or?.
Ok here’s the H3 list to also consider as a source for inspiration; If there are more in H4 or you've other ideas...please share them.
1. Acquire Artifact/artifacts
2. Accumulate creature/s
3. “ “ resource/s
4. Capture a location (my change)
5. Defeat a specific monster
6. Defeat a specific Hero
7. Flag all of “something” (my change)
8. Transport a specific artifact
9. The Grail on this?
Good luck
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
|
|
posted June 19, 2011 03:11 AM |
|
|
|
This might be a bit hard for you to visualise Markkur, but how about "Utilise/Manipulate EE in [x] way" as a victory condition?
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted June 19, 2011 08:06 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 20:07, 19 Jun 2011.
|
Quote:
This might be a bit hard for you to visualise Markkur, but how about "Utilise/Manipulate EE in [x] way" as a victory condition?
Not very difficult, at least the "using" part. I've already suggested using the "Magic of the World" but, my vision "then" was about "show-casing within HoD", that aspect in E.E. I did not go any further, in how they would mix for a sweet...victory! <IMO> Once Q is there and we all know "how the magic works", then it would be a much easier step to take.
On a related track, at times, I've used the 4-Elements, and placed "Elemental Guardians". Since this went over like a Led Zepplin (rock-on boys!) I can only assume that; maybe folks are tired of that old tune?
Food for thought:...or maybe not. "Life and Death" could be the competing "'Ultras' that reign", and from... all magic divides. The chasm is hardle clear to me.
Have you walked downtown? Any thoughts? Do not be timid if you've a critical POV.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 20, 2011 12:15 AM |
|
|
The main quest is clear, visit all five fountains and then the exit to win.
The question is how we could spice this up and tie all this to a greater mystery that is worth investigating.
EE magic is good. We don't need to paint the full picture right from the start, we can have the Hall of Decision evolve. We have already a few bits lined out with the campaign story. More will come.
The really interesting thing should be to bring the ancient dwarven city aka Hall of Decision to life. Ghosts that ambush you or require a tribute, the lots of angels who might join you and give the underdog a chance to still win the game. Magic and portal traps.
The fountains will confer significant boni and imagine a garrison backbone that guards the critical junctions. Flagging the right fountains in a suitable order will let you pass. Secret passages that the skilled can find allow for new paths to be traveled. The warrior can fight through the garrisons, ambushs and ghosts, dragon guards and more and win still. We have to make it interesting for a variety of playing styles and a challenge for your wits.
|
|
mfdoom
Hired Hero
|
|
posted June 20, 2011 12:18 AM |
|
|
|
Is there a way to add more artifacts?
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 20, 2011 12:21 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Is there a way to add more artifacts?
No doubt about it.
|
|
Fester
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted June 20, 2011 09:46 PM |
|
Edited by Fester at 21:58, 20 Jun 2011.
|
Quantomas I said b4 but i must nag a little I´m afraid. Before your EE arrived RPE was the thing that got me playing h5 again.
I know your busy doing probably even cooler features and so and but can you please make EE compatible with RPE again?
RPE was the coolest thing til EE arrived and I > LOVE < to see be able combine them because honestly after one has tried your EE you dont go back to long loading (awesome work) and dumber A.I.
I hope Im not "demanding" too much.
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 21, 2011 09:53 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quantomas I said b4 but i must nag a little I´m afraid. Before your EE arrived RPE was the thing that got me playing h5 again.
I know your busy doing probably even cooler features and so and but can you please make EE compatible with RPE again?
RPE was the coolest thing til EE arrived and I > LOVE < to see be able combine them because honestly after one has tried your EE you dont go back to long loading (awesome work) and dumber A.I.
I hope Im not "demanding" too much.
The simple fact is I cannot afford to do much on this front right now. I did Magnomagus a favour and tested his suggestions with 3.1.8 but it turned out that a more clean approach to import the elements into the game database (.xdb) is required.
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 24, 2011 12:02 PM |
|
|
Markkur has provided quite some input for questing ideas:
The Might and Magic of The Five Fountains
***This Quest should be set-up for "Might" AND "Magic“"***
At the very entrance into the "Hall of Decision" you must pick between "Might and Magic." <pleased grin>
Note: This will give us 28-trails in all. 3 mini-Quest, 1 longer path, ala Magic, 3 mini-Quest, 1 longer, ala Might and both followed up with 10 artifacts sets that create individual paths for each. <L>
The basic ideas and flow behind the Hall of Decision. This is pretty extensive, so I may have over-sights etc.
The Five Fountains interact for (instruction/completion messages)
{Note: all of first visits must be completed, then second stage begins and all Fountains issue new instruction/completion messages.}
1V =first visit
2V=second visit
“Fount of Preparation” {Yellow}
1V=Requires 1 of each resource
2V= you will need to get all war-machines
“The Fountain of Magic” {Magic Quest} (Purple}
(Important Quest-Tree, 4 possible Paths)
1V=You must "decide" which Tome you will use. (you're given a sub-quest about here and how to acquire the Tome".
2V= You must "Master the Magic"(this sets in motion the "requirement-list" of the chosen magic.
a. Acquire a scroll...to fight
b. Defeat "Monsters of Magic" ( One Monster-Army for each type)
1. Summoning=Fire and Water Elementals
2. Destruction=Druids and Witches
3. Light=Zealots and Angel
4. Dark-Mummies and Ghost Dragon
c. Locate the "Well of Mana"
d. Given the "Magic Key" to take to the "Victory Fountain' to fight the "Hero of Magic"
1. Summoning = "Key of Calling"
2. Destruction = "Key of Calamity"
3. Light = "Key of Illumination"
4. Dark = " Key of Shadows"
e. On to the Victory Fountain”
Fountain of Blood {Might-Quest}(Red)
(Important Quest-Tree, 4 possible Paths)
1V=You must "decide" which “Specialty” you will follow. (you're given a sub-quest about here and how to acquire the Skill".
2V= You must "Master the Might" (this sets in motion the "requirement-list" of the chosen “Weapon of the Realm“.(Sword, Shield, Bow and Helm
a. Acquire a “Bonus“...to fight or (Ring of Speed?)
b. Defeat "Monsters of Melee" ( One Monster-Army for each type)
1. Sword = Vampires and Golems
2. Shield = Defenders and Conscripts
3. Bow = Hunters and Centaurs
4. Helm = Cerberus and Hydras
c. Find the "Idol of Fortune"
d. Given the "Battle Cry“" to take to the "Victory Fountain' to fight the "Hero of Might"
1. Sword = "Strike Now"
2. Shield = "Stand Fast"
3. Bow= "Straight and True"
4. Helm = " Brains and Brawn"
e. On to the Victory Fountain
　
“Wisdom's Fount” {Magic-Quest}(Green}
1V=Learn “Enlightenment”
2V=Gain “Intelligence”
“Fountain of Strength” {Might-Quest} {Teal}
1V = Learn Offense
2V = Provoke “Battle-Frenzy”
　
　
Fountain of Gifts” {Blue}
1V=
{Might} Acquire “The Bloody Claw” ( needed to give to Kragh to have him teach you Battle-Frenzy)
{Magic} Acquire "Scroll of Instant Travel" (needed to reach "Narxes the Mentor", who will teach "Enlightenment")
2V=
{Might} Requires you obtain the "Necklace of Victory" or you have no hope of winning. (To be able to "trade" for this artifact your "chosen specialty" requires you have a specific artifact)
a. Sword = “Sword of Might”
b. Shield = “Ogre Shield"
c. Bow = “Unicorn Horn Bow”
d. Helm = “Crown of Leadership”
{Magic} Requires you obtain the "Necklace of Victory" or you have no hope of winning. (To be able to "trade" for this artifact your "chosen magic" requires you have a specific artifact)
a. Summoning= "Elemental Waistband"
b. Destruction="Trident of the Titans"
c. Light="Wand of Haste"
d. Dark="Ring of the Unrepentant"
Note" there could be others that are about the world but lead to an ambush "if picked-up")
e.g. Wand of Slow(Eruina with a Legion of Witches), Phoenix feather cape ( Nathir and a legion of fire elementals), Book of power(Markal with legions of Skeletons) Robe of Sar-Issus (King Tolghar with Huge army). Same with other “Might-artifacts”
“The Victory Fountain” {White}
1V=Tells you a Tale about the Might or Magic you’ve chosen and that; "you must complete the instructions of the other 4 Founts".
2V= "Until all 2nd quests have been completed; "you're not ready to meet the Heroes of Might or Magic"
Once met, then; "All is in order" and you go on to meet the Hero that represents the Might/Magic you've chosen.
Victory = Defeat "Hero of Might" ( One Hero for each type)
a. Sword = Laszlo
b. Shield = Ingvar
c. Bow = Ossir
d. Helm = Alastor
Victory = Defeat "Hero of Magic" ( One Hero for each type)
a. Summoning=Vlaad
b. Destruction=Grawl
c. Light=Ylthin
d. Dark = Yrbeth
Important Note: This whole flow should be geared towards "Might"... as well
IDEA: At this stage it could be a great option to let this be the 1st victory but in-addition provide another…extended "ultimate quest" or option to “Take the Long Hall" :>
From here the game's experience could be quite different from the 1st 4 variations of the chosen mihgt or magic to 10 more trails through the Hall of Decision... by basing this "optional-longer quest" on the "Artifact sets" (2 findings to 8)
They range from acquiring;
2 artifacts for... 'Archer's Dream', 'Runeforce", 'Will of Urgash', 'Vestment of Enlightenment' and 'Weapons of Might'
3 artifacts...'Lion's Spirit'
4 artifacts...'Armor of Dwarven Kings', 'Death's Embrace' and Sar-Issus Regalia'
To the Ultimate Hunt: The 8 artifacts of 'Power of Dragons'
Notes:
1.Each part would be some sort of small quest covering a gamut of separate ideas.
2.Each path has a little story about the “set” or bits about the micro-quests...to follow along with the chosen-trail.
---
Short critique
This contains a good number of valid ideas for quests that we could do in the Hall of the Decision.
My main issue with this is that it is WAY too linear. One reason that I like Heroes is that on the adventure map you could use your wits to determine the path you like to travel, with the limits provided by the adventure map design itself. The Hall of Decision would greatly benefit if we could mirror this concept here.
The five fountains could be visited in any order, and it *IS* the benefits that these confer that alters the way you can travel through the Hall of Decision. Its color coded keys let you pass powerful garrisons, find hidden passages, go unharmed through ambushs from assassins and ghosts, or avoid magical traps.
Think creatively. As explained earlier, I can implement nearly anything you desire in the Hall of Decision, don't let us look back to the old ways only. Yes there are valid ones and good ones, but we can do much more.
|
|
TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
|
|
posted June 24, 2011 03:43 PM |
|
|
Hi everyone, it's been awhile since I posted anything EE related, I'm now looking forward to being productive again.
@Quantomas I have an issue with your desire to have a completely refined concept ready for implementation. Personally, I feel that in-game features require testing in order for the appropriate changes in direction to reveal themselves. I think that this especially applies to things like the hall of decision. I appreciate that we have to be fairly exact about what we want and how it will work so that it can be implemented from a programming standpoint, but I feel like our ideas can become divorced from the realities of the game as it is. Hence, people lose track of what we set out to achieve or find it difficult to visualise where it will go from there. I also appreciate that it would be even more of a headache to have something half-baked programmed in, only to have billions of rewrites and modifications to get the desired end product.
My suggestion is that we find the happy medium between "OK let's give this a try and see how it works", and "we need to have a perfect concept before we implement anything". The only reason I say this is because I am having a hard time visualising how it will play. I will not discount the fact that I may be retarded  but neither will I discount the idea that I may not be  As someone who works with children, it may that showing someone how something works and then getting them to test it for themselves - and then having them talk about it - is just too ingrained in me, but I really believe that this is often the best way to nurture positive results from unknown experiences. That we don't have the ability to show anyone exactly how something works yet, should not necessarily be a barrier to testing and discussion. Part of concept testing occurs here in the forum, but I would like to see more testing of game design done in the game, so that we can all grasp exactly where and how this thing is going.
In no way would I like this be a criticism of the amazing work Markkur and QT have been doing, sometimes I just worry that there is a little too much mystery in this project - that people are in possession of visions not privy to others.
Sorry I just get nervous about all this sometimes, as I have such high hopes for EE. The last post I found initially confusing, and then after the critique I was thinking "Way too linear? I don't even understand what the parameters are!" I just want a bit more showing and a little less telling, even though I do understand that it may not be feasible at this point.
|
|
Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
|
|
posted June 24, 2011 06:51 PM |
|
|
We have now something to visualize what we are talking about.
Markkur did it, and produced an ancient and forgotten dwarven city to an extent H5 has not seen yet.
Hall of Decision - Ancient Dwarven City
Positively awesome.
It loads now proper in H5's single player mode. Don't miss to check it out. If you want to view the entire map, use one of the beta open debug builds and hit the turn button once.
@TheBaron
Very good. I hope things get more clear over time.
What I am currently doing is rather giving fairly abstract guidance, so that we can incrementally refine our vision. If I would ask for a completely refined concept, things would look different.
What I mean with linearity is a gameplay like do this first, then that, third that and so on. Having choices that provide access to different branches do not alleviate the linearity, it just makes it open-ended. What I mean with non-linearity is total freedom, like the adventure map lets us visit first one mine, then a treasure hoard, some resource pile, a guardian and so on but giving us total freedom of the order how we do things.
Yes, we need to discuss it, and I agree with your suggestion to show people something first, so that they can get to grips with it. We have now a fair sample map, and once I get around to implement a bit of the HoD gameplay mode, people will really be able to toy around with it and play in it.
So, we should get there step by step.
|
| |
|
|
