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| Thread: Dr. Kevorkian dead |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted June 03, 2011 05:30 PM |
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Dr. Kevorkian dead
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Dr. Kevorkian challenged social taboos about disease and dying, willfully defying prosecutors and the courts as he actively sought national celebrity. He spent eight years in prison after being convicted of second-degree murder in the death of the last of the more than 100 terminally ill patients whose lives he helped end.
From June 1990, when he assisted in the first suicide, until March 1999, when he was sentenced to serve 10 to 25 years in a maximum security prison, Dr. Kevorkian was a controversial figure. But his critics and supporters generally agree on this: As a result of his stubborn and often intemperate advocacy for the right of the terminally ill to choose how they die, hospice care has boomed in the United States, and physicians have become more sympathetic to their pain and more willing to prescribe medication to relieve it.
So, what does HC think about assisted suicide?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Smithey
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted June 03, 2011 05:52 PM |
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Edited by Smithey at 17:53, 03 Jun 2011.
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If a man is sane enough to make a decision of any kind, I would leave the morphine "unattended" and explain how to go through with the process in a non painful manner, that's where my job ends and the rest is up to him or his relatives....
Edit: I'm really interested in hearing what's your stance on the subject though
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meroe
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Basically Smurfette
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posted June 03, 2011 06:04 PM |
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I'll risk putting my 10 cents worth in.
I agree with Smithey (shock horror), but as I have been raised a Catholic I do so with a heavy heart. Its having to wrestle between indoctrinated beliefs and the humane treatment of others. I see no reason for anyone to have to suffer needlessly. What good does that do anyone.
Yet its still a risky decision to make for any medical personnel. At what stage do you deem it the 'right time' to end that persons misery? How ill do they have to be? What if they are in a coma??
I'm just pleased I don't have this responsibility.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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mvassilev
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posted June 03, 2011 06:14 PM |
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Smithey:
I'm for legalizing it, at least if the person is conscious and capable of consenting. It gets more difficult if the person is in a coma.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Shyranis
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posted June 03, 2011 06:15 PM |
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The free market opinion is always:
If somebody wants to pay somebody to kill them, companies should be able to compete for that service and start a bidding war to drive down costs.
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meroe
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Basically Smurfette
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posted June 03, 2011 06:18 PM |
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Eww .. assisted suicide for $49.99. "We come to you".
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Shyranis
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Supreme Hero
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posted June 03, 2011 06:36 PM |
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My opinion is:
If somebody really is physically suffering, they agree, the doctors who see them agree. They should be able to end their own lives. Nobody should have to have suffering forced upon them longer than is needed.
Humans were given free will in order to use it right? (within reason of course)
However, I also am personally opposed to suicide, it's conflicting. And also it does stem from my religion.
But really, if suicide is something sinful, it's up the the sinner to choose their punishment right? It's it's not, then, there really isn't any problem at all.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
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Elodin
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posted June 03, 2011 06:42 PM |
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I don't believe human life is cheap and worthless so I am opposed to assisted suicide. Assisted suicide leads to heavily encouraged or forced suicide and an out for murder.
"Go away and die already, Gramps."
"You paraplegic freak you are worthless to everyone. Do us all a favor and get help to kill yourself."
"Sorry sir, the Medicare won't help you with your cancer treatments but we will help you buy the meds that will kill you."
"No, officer I did not kill my Mom for her money. She asked me to help her die and so I did."
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Revelation
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mvassilev
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posted June 03, 2011 07:09 PM |
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"Slippery slope" isn't a valid argument. Killing people against their will is illegal now and would remain illegal if assisted suicide was legalized.
Quote:
I don't believe human life is cheap and worthless so I am opposed to assisted suicide.
The question at hand is not whether we support assisted suicide but whether it should be legal. I'm sure there are plenty of things you're opposed to but think should be legal. I don't think one's health is worthless, so I'm opposed to eating nothing but candy. That doesn't mean I want eating nothing but candy to be illegal.
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Eccentric Opinion
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MacMasterMC
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Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted June 03, 2011 07:25 PM |
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How do you know whether or not someone who is dead wanted to have help killing themselves? Unless it is documented (which even video can be fake, under duress or whatnot). There is no unequivocal way short of an outright deposition in front of a judge that would be satisfactory, and most cases where people want to do this, are not ambulatory enough to be able to do something like that.
Slippery slope: a slope where you cannot find a way up because, it being slippery, is not really able to get to the high ground. see fool's gold, pig in a poke, et al.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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mvassilev
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posted June 03, 2011 07:51 PM |
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Quote:
How do you know whether or not someone who is dead wanted to have help killing themselves?
The same way wills and DNR orders work. The patient signs it, has witnesses sign it, and so it is known that they agreed. If you don't think this is valid or reliable, you shouldn't think wills and DNR orders are either.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted June 03, 2011 07:53 PM |
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In Belgium, a euthanasia patient has to acquire signatures from several doctors. Kinda hard to make a slippery slope out of that. It also can't be done, if the person isn't in possession of his mental faculties. Make a slippery slope out of that one.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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gnomes2169
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posted June 03, 2011 09:04 PM |
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Quote:
It also can't be done, if the person isn't in possession of his mental faculties. Make a slippery slope out of that one.
Certain people who are certifiably insane can disguise their madness in a normal society, and, in fact, appear more sane than anyone around them, so a crazy person could, in theory, ask for assissted suicide. Just pointing this out.
Personally, I'm for the ending of suffering. If there is no way to help someone in agony who is slowly dieing over a period of years and he asked me to give him an overdose of a drug, to kill him and end his suffering, then I would do it.
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-Ghost destroying Fred
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DagothGares
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posted June 03, 2011 09:08 PM |
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Quote:
Certain people who are certifiably insane can disguise their madness in a normal society, and, in fact, appear more sane than anyone around them, so a crazy person could, in theory, ask for assissted suicide. Just pointing this out.
True, though in cases of euthanasia, it's about people with Alzheimer's or other diseases that slowly kill you. It's really hard to pretend you don't have it, if you don't remember who everyone is or why you're here.
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Elodin
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posted June 04, 2011 06:09 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 06:10, 04 Jun 2011.
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Quote:
True, though in cases of euthanasia, it's about people with Alzheimer's or other diseases that slowly kill you. It's really hard to pretend you don't have it, if you don't remember who everyone is or why you're here.
My mother has Alzeheimer's. Alzeheimer's patients would not be mentally competent to make a decision to kill themselves and anyone who kills them would be an evil and perverse pitiful excuse of a human being.
Until the age of political correctness a person who wanted to kill himself was considered mentally unstable. Of course many libs love more piles of human corpses but have a cow if a fish dies in a generator. Many libs seem to have no qualms about lining up the elderly, the handicapped, and others they judge "not to have a good quality of life" to be mass murdered.
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VokialBG
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posted June 04, 2011 06:14 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 06:26, 04 Jun 2011.
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No and never. This may be used as terrible way to abuse the law.
Plus, what Elodin said in his last post (second sentence). It can't work properly with people in specific condition. People under lawful agå and also people under judicial disability, since for the law, they can not express will (don't know the legal term in English for that one). Not alone.
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mvassilev
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posted June 04, 2011 07:07 AM |
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Quote:
Alzeheimer's patients would not be mentally competent to make a decision to kill themselves
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It can't work properly with people in specific condition.
If you read the posts above, you would have noticed that this point has already been addressed:Quote:
It also can't be done, if the person isn't in possession of his mental faculties.
Quote:
if the person is conscious and capable of consenting
People in advanced stages of Alzheimer's can't make the decision to kill themselves, but in early stages, they're still capable of making independent decisions. If they're not capable of consenting, then we're talking about something else. But if a person who possesses sufficient mental capacity to be able to consent wants to have someone kill them, why not let them?
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Elodin
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posted June 04, 2011 11:50 AM |
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Quote:
People in advanced stages of Alzheimer's can't make the decision to kill themselves, but in early stages, they're still capable of making independent decisions. If they're not capable of consenting, then we're talking about something else. But if a person who possesses sufficient mental capacity to be able to consent wants to have someone kill them, why not let them?
By the time Alzheimer's is diagnosed there has already been cognitive impairment.
When a person dispairs and wants to kill himself he should be offered psychological hellp and support to help him cope with whatever he is going through rather than saying, "Hey we could kill you."
Clicky
Quote:
PORTLAND, Ore. — Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a "chilling" corruption of medical ethics.
Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.
Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.
"It dropped my chin to the floor," Stroup told FOX News. "[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?"
The letter, which has been sent to other terminal patients throughout Oregon, follows guidelines established by the state legislature.
Oregon doesn't cover life-prolonging treatment unless there is better than a 5 percent chance it will help the patients live for five more years — but it covers doctor-assisted suicide, defining it as a means of providing comfort, no different from hospice care or pain medication.
"It's chilling when you think about it," said Dr. William Toffler, a professor of family medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. "It absolutely conveys to the patient that continued living isn't worthwhile."
In issuing their latest Prioritized List of Health Services, state officials reported a new emphasis on preventive care and cost effectiveness. Dr. John Sattenspiel, LIPA's senior medical director, defended the measures.
"I have had patients who would consider knowing that this is part of that range of comfort care or palliative care services that are still available to them, they would be comforted by that," Sattenspiel said. "It really depends on the individual patient."
Toffler called it a callous practice that went against medical convention. "It corrupts the consistent medical ethic that has been in place for 2,000 years," he said. "It's absolutely breathtaking."
Oregon is the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide, which came into effect in 1997. Since that time, there have been 341 reported cases where doctors provided lethal doses of medicine to patients to end their lives.
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DagothGares
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posted June 04, 2011 12:01 PM |
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Quote:
By the time Alzheimer's is diagnosed there has already been cognitive impairment.
Hugo Claus could give interviews and still travel around with his wife, before he offed himself. Though, the procedure was hastened when he couldn't make the trip to America anymore. (Hugo Claus: Greatest Belgian writer of the previous generation, had Alzheimer's)
How do you feel about government-funded palliative care for the terminally ill, elodin?
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JollyJoker
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posted June 04, 2011 02:53 PM |
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I always thought, "The Dignity of Men is unimpeachable".
Now go and tell that to people who have to rely on others for the most basic bodily functions and are unable to end this misery because of that fact.
The most undignified thing imaginable is that someone does beg others to end his or her life because he or her isn't able to do it due to bodily disfunction - and no one does it.
So, yes, if someone wants to terminate his or her existance and isn't capable of doing that himself - which would more often than not be actually a good reason for a wish to end one's life - then, yes, help him.
Belgium does a very good job in that respect. 
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