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| Thread: H5 Custom Map Requests (experimental) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 20, 2011 01:46 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 15:31, 22 Aug 2011.
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The increase of faction dwellings was apparent, but I'm unsure as to how much that really affected the gameplay. Even in larger numbers, those unuppgraded low level units were still rather useless in comparison with elementals and refugees.
1. Keep in mind, that I'm experimenting with this map as much as you are. Personally I seldom use neutrals, especially elementals. I had thought about saying this up-front but I didn't know how this map might work and they're actually pretty good used this way.
The main reason I got away from the neutrals a long time ago was that the old A.I went after neutrals big-time and <imo> at the cost of everything else. On this map, it seems that the new A.I. is doing that too but I think it's because we are forcing it to. With our severe troop limitations, "the strength is guaranteed there at the confluxes", since the towns are not offering anything strong. The refugee camps are also usually better.
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One thing I didn't mention earlier is the strength of guardians. Some places are guarded by "lots" of level five units which you will never find profitable to attack if the reward is that you get a gold mine which your enemy will capture in about four turns without having to fight anything.
2. I "reduced" guarding strengths for this map from how I usually set them. However I was not sure how far down I should go. Another factor that I think is "playing-out"; is that the map is more geared to gathering than fighting. Like you said; if I'm going to fight let it be against an enemy. So, what we are seeing is neutrals growing to large numbers, then toss in that I began them maybe (at least) 1 level high and that's what you see. About the artifacts, they're mostly the random luck of the draw, except for the Armor of the Forgotten Hero and the Tome of Light Magic. Honestly, I tossed those in for more the fun of it, since I see this map as; far more the intense-duel than fun-exploring.
What can be done here is all creatures dialed back another level and all artifacts be picked and placed. Both should help there. Another thing that can be done is to set fixed numbers. That's goin to take a lot of time though, so I'll go the easy route first.
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I still haven't really found the "far away from home" feel I was looking for in this map. The map does feel sort of crowded even though the size is "huge". It's almost as if I wanted it to be even larger, to have more space. Actually I wonder what it would be like with an underground (I realize these would be big changes so I'm not demanding anything, not wanting to be a difficult customer).
If you think about it; not opting for an underground cuts the size in-half. Most smaller maps, Very Large, Large & Normal "usually" have an underground. Even though this is Huge map, it is not as Huge as it could be e.g I've played a lot of 2-lvl Larges and that means 176x176=cells=352cells, x2levels=704cells, where a single-Huge is 256x256cells 1-level=512cells. An XL-map with 2-levels is quite a bit larger than our single Huge @ 864total. Might be a lot better to go that way next time.
3.One of the great things about the larger maps is that the roads are required to be longer and ofc, that builds-in travel time. I'm not sure how I can effect that a lot because, well, so many cells in length is just that. What I did not know was; how long you wanted to be off-road. I suppose one thing that I do sometimes... could be done a lot on this map. That is; to make some very winding pathways. Since I did put in a lot of mountain terrain (you might have liked that<L> I can cut out more of those for strategic travel
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Q's AI seems to adapt to the map strategically but not tactically. It doesn't really make use of spells and war machines the way one needs to do in this map. Personally I used three heroes with very few troops which I just split to fill all seven slots and then started to take down the enemy with destructive magic. Meanwhile, enemy heroes would just wait with all of their units and cast things like weakness or vulnerability.
I have to wonder how the lack of a "real-town-build" may be affecting this. Maybe not at all but I don't know. We could "try to force better spells" this by putting some spell shrines and dictate. We could also experiment with making Heroes for all 6 factions. If you've ever seen the "Level 15 Duel Heroes list" in the awesome "Fan-Made Manual" that would give you a good idea of what I mean. We could set-all that up to start.
Fan Manual
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Overall, I think the map has improved. I don't think this map is finished quite yet, though. I just don't know what sould be changed. I'm running out of new ideas. Maybe you have some. Actually I might just wait for your public realease if you're still planning one.
I think I'll go to a third version with the changes I've posted.
I'll just run with it at this point and see if I can make some good tweaks. I'll make the 3rd version w/o Heroes and we can add them later if you'd like to try that out.
Edit= I made a 3rd version and went for the technical aspects only. Let's get that right before landscaping. I've made some good changes I think so you'll have to give it a try.
NP 3
1. All 6 Starting-towns have mage-level-fives. Outer-towns have level-1 built and the rest are disabled. I removed all spell-shrines from the map. This should be fun, since each player will see what he needs to know to make the right build and of course the extra magic won't matter until it can be learned
2. I replaced all Confluxes with more Refugee camps. (I think we need to try this switch)I added 1-3 creature dwellings to the 6 starting towns (keeping the outside ones as well) and changed from lvl-3s to lvl-4s in the 6 outer-towns. ALL have their upgrades enabled now. Seemed a better route than random hill-forts.
3. All Neutrals I've taken down at least one level and each type I chose, to opt for more fighters and less shooters to help minimize losses. In a couple of spots I did not lower the tier of the defending creature but chose to set a "fixed-number". <imo>Some of the artifacts are too impacting to this sort of game to make them too easy.
4. I also removed all defending creatures that guarded random dwellings but left whatever treasure was there. This means...get outta town fast!<L>
5. I also improved the 3 special areas. About the Fortress-Outpost. I agree that the army was waaay too powerful. Brain-fart I guess. However, those 3 artifacts are no small thing on this map. The Book of Power can give up to +3 to spell-power and knowledge if the Hero has enlightment. Then add the Lions Cape that gives you +2 moral considering... all of this army mixing? And finally toss in the Boots?...get around faster. Nice package I think. Anyway...it's only guarded by mummies now.
You said you would test a map when "You have time" so...here's one if you've not tried it yet. No rush. It's a 2-stage map design, in that there are 3 factions nearer to hand to deal with before you can get on with trying to knock out Narxes and the distant Academy town of Qays.
Path to Qays
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 08:10 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 20:11, 21 Aug 2011.
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Just tried version 3 this morning. Some thoughts:
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1. All 6 Starting-towns have mage-level-fives. Outer-towns have level-1 built and the rest are disabled. I removed all spell-shrines from the map. This should be fun, since each player will see what he needs to know to make the right build and of course the extra magic won't matter until it can be learned
I'm liking this. This map is much more about developing strong heroes than buildng large armies. Having the guilds prebuilt allows for more planning.
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2. I replaced all Confluxes with more Refugee camps. (I think we need to try this switch)I added 1-3 creature dwellings to the 6 starting towns (keeping the outside ones as well) and changed from lvl-3s to lvl-4s in the 6 outer-towns. ALL have their upgrades enabled now. Seemed a better route than random hill-forts.
This is an improvement as well. The confluxes were too dominating earlier, if your enemy had managed to get water elementals from three or more confluxes - and you hadn't - you were pretty much doomed.
Also, I like having the low tiers back in action. They give you a nice early game boost and actually give you the choice to create pure might heroes that don't rely completely on war machines. Later, the higher level dwellings become strategic targets. Especially the area with three military posts (with portals leading to it) was constantly under competition. At one time I intercepted a caravan of ten slayers coming from that very location. I think strategical "hotspots" like this one are great. Maybe a few more could be added.
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3. All Neutrals I've taken down at least one level and each type I chose, to opt for more fighters and less shooters to help minimize losses. In a couple of spots I did not lower the tier of the defending creature but chose to set a "fixed-number". <imo>Some of the artifacts are too impacting to this sort of game to make them too easy.
4. I also removed all defending creatures that guarded random dwellings but left whatever treasure was there. This means...get outta town fast!<L>
Actually now that you have support from the lower tier units, these weakened guardians seem almost too weak. I think unguarded dwellings are a good thing, but treasures could be better protected.
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You said you would test a map when "You have time" so...here's one if you've not tried it yet. No rush. It's a 2-stage map design, in that there are 3 factions nearer to hand to deal with before you can get on with trying to knock out Narxes and the distant Academy town of Qays.
Ok, I'll try this map "when I have time". That will be in about a week I think. By the way, I already tried to download it but I couldn't access the file. The link brought me to some sort of mediafire advertisement which I could not bypass in any way.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 22, 2011 03:54 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 15:56, 22 Aug 2011.
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This is an improvement as well. The confluxes were too dominating earlier, if your enemy had managed to get water elementals from three or more confluxes - and you hadn't - you were pretty much doomed.
Yeah, that's why they had to go. I have found few <imo> good uses for the conflux-dwelling. As I said; early game the A.I. always plans for using them and if you don't you're toast and they're not cheap. <Imo> the quality and direction of the map-play is high-jacked and the quality greatly affected. I think maybe the best way to bring them on to a map is in "remote areas, where you've had to fight (a lot)and roam a (a lot) to get there." Then they provide a little boost and with more advanced Heroes, they are not game-breakers but only add a little strength and variety. Actually, at that time, it's fun to see the enemy clutching straws, or myself grabbing a few and just barely "surviving" an unexpected battle.
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... Especially the area with three military posts (with portals leading to it) was constantly under competition. At one time I intercepted a caravan of ten slayers coming from that very location. I think strategical "hotspots" like this one are great. Maybe a few more could be added.
OK, next round I'll make one more collision course. Wouldn't want to go too far with this, since I think it could become to tedious in ever "grabbing the game by the Horns"<L>
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Actually now that you have support from the lower tier units, these weakened guardians seem almost too weak. I think unguarded dwellings are a good thing, but treasures could be better protected.
I wondered if this might prove true. One other thought about it; everyone is seeing the same, so there's yet balance, but if you feel strongly I can return the neutrals to the strengths I had them.
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...The link brought me to some sort of mediafire advertisement which I could not bypass in any way.
Did the usual but for some reason, the link had a few extra letters added to the end of it? It's probably an Advertisement-strategy that Medifire uses and worth the "free" Ofc you should have been able to reach the file I edited the link and works now.
Did you check out the Fan-Manual?
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"Do your own research"
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