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| Thread: A prespective from the Ubisoft generation |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT» |
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted August 08, 2011 04:16 PM |
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A prespective from the Ubisoft generation
The Ubisoft generation.
Not all of us Heroes fans have played through the 3DO years. Some of us were introduced to the series through Heroes of might and magic V a group of people I call the “Ubisoft generation”. I am one of those people and with Heroes 6 coming out and people lamenting about the 3DO years I feel my prospective is worth sharing.
The good thing about being a member of the Ubisoft generation is that you are able judge Heroes of might and magic V on it's terms without your perceptions being clouded by emotions from the previous games. When I first started playing HV I found the game to be very difficult for it seemed to play very differently from other strategy games I knew better like Command and Conquer and Starcraft. In Heroes V the key was to level up your hero and get resources quickly even if it meant sending your troops through a “meat grinder” A very alien concept for me as in other strategy games I always worked to minimize casualties. Though I can't put my finger on it exactly playing heroes 5 felt differently in other ways too. If playing other strategy games was like playing chess then playing Heroes 5 felt like playing “Go” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game).
When I finally did get my head around the unique play style of HV I found the game play intoxicating. I could feel parts of my brain being exercised that had never been allowed to languish when I played command and Conquer or Starcraft. Go was the only other game I played that used the parts of the brain that I used for HV and the feeling of playing both games is euphoric. In addition that chess aspect of the game also existed during fights between heroes and that was nice too.
If only the story behind HV was as interesting as the gameplay. Somehow characters in the story seemed to fill me with anticipation only to disappoint and if that were not enough there were consent plot holes that drove me up the wall. I kept thinking if only this character did such and such and if only if ubisoft thought the story through it could be good. But in the end even the final chapter of HV “Tribes of the East” did not save the story.
Not all was bad however for even though I hated the story of HV I bought the guide book and quickly fell in love with the Ashan universe. Ubisoft failed to make good use of it's universe but the universe its self has much potential. So much in fact that I felt compelled to purchase and play Heroes of might and magic 3 in hopes that I could learn more of the history of Ashan; Now it was my turn to have an emotionally clouded perception.
When I played heroes 3 I was disappointed to learn that it took place in a different universe. Playing H3 I found instantly why it would be considered a good game for it's time. I got bored of it however because it played exactly like H5 EXCEPT it didn't have nearly as much faction and hero variation. In short H5 had everything H3 had and then some.
So anyways there's a perspective from the Ubisoft generation for you.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 08, 2011 04:26 PM |
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Hm, reminds me of the Morrowind vs. Oblivion arguments.
Story & atmosphere vs. playability.
Yeah I got nothing.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 08, 2011 05:47 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 17:48, 08 Aug 2011.
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I can see how you would see that, it's hardly surprising actually  And likewise I'd find it different to return to the older games for the same reasons. However despite skill/faction/hero system being simpler than H5, there is more to H3 or H2 that meets the eye. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the game as much, this time the storyline will be much better. Good even 
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julle
Adventuring Hero
Simply FABULOUS!
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posted August 08, 2011 10:06 PM |
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i like this. i like this alot.
while i might not be 2ubisoft genration", i'm certainly not the "3DO" generation either. sure, i grew up with Heroes III, but i was like 4, and then the game dissapeared, so i'm a bit in the middle.
while i DID like Heroes V, i quickly went back to III for a simple reason: atmosphere. it just FEELS awesome, and i never got that little bit from V. otherwise, V TotE is the better game, III just has the better feel.
and that's from the "middleman" 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 08, 2011 10:22 PM |
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Quote:
When I played heroes 3 I was disappointed to learn that it took place in a different universe. Playing H3 I found instantly why it would be considered a good game for it's time. I got bored of it however because it played exactly like H5 EXCEPT it didn't have nearly as much faction and hero variation. In short H5 had everything H3 had and then some.
I can see what you get at here, but there was a level to Heroes 3 beyond the official game. The official game was decent, but the real qualities came from some of the fan-made maps, and you would not realize this from only casually playing the game.
I agree Heroes 5 was superior in most aspects of the gameplay, but the combination of a poor AI, bad game engine and horrible map making tools ment this game never really got to work on the deaper level that H3 did. Unfortunately. I hope H5.5 will remedy this at some point.
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What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 08, 2011 10:42 PM |
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I would agree with that. For Heroes 3 there exist unbelievable maps.
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted August 08, 2011 11:16 PM |
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Quote:
i like this. i like this alot.
while i might not be 2ubisoft genration", i'm certainly not the "3DO" generation either. sure, i grew up with Heroes III, but i was like 4, and then the game dissapeared, so i'm a bit in the middle.
while i DID like Heroes V, i quickly went back to III for a simple reason: atmosphere. it just FEELS awesome, and i never got that little bit from V. otherwise, V TotE is the better game, III just has the better feel.
and that's from the "middleman"
I'm much like you. I first played Heroes 2, but I was very young. I fell in love with the fantasy world, and soon discovered Heroes 3. After playing the game for countless hours, I finally moved on to other things, and the series completely disappeared out of my life for many years.
Because I was so young, I would not consider myself a proper member of the 3DO generation, although I may lean in that direction. Still, I can be fairly objective, and I like a lot of the qualities and features of Heroes 5, but I can't help but feel as though, although many things have been improved upon, the game has a bit less soul and a bit less atmosphere than the earlier titles. Or at least it seems so, because what soul and atmosphere Heroes 5 has is greatly hindered by the jumpyness and edgyness of the game and the things that alcibiades listed.
From what people have been saying, Blackhole has put a decent amount of effort into fixing the problems that H5 had. I hear the AI still sucks, but at least the turns are fast, the map editor is better, etc.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 09, 2011 09:57 AM |
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Actually, my sentiment regarding C&C and SC as opposed to the Heroes series is opposite of what you describe. In Heroes, troop preservation means everything; every soldier you keep alive is one you can use to fight in your next battle. In C&C and SC, you needed to ploink down enough defenses to keep your base secure and then build a strike team capable of overcoming the enemy defenses. Casualties were acceptable, if the damage was more than what they cost.
I started playing Heroes from the first title, now many years ago, as well as Heroes 2 and 3. I liked Heroes 3 best, especially with the Armageddon's Blade expansion (in fact, I think the Festival of Life is one of my all-time favorite campaigns, despite my favor for magic users). Abhorred by Heroes 4, I was pleasantly surprised by Heroes 5 and especially by the Tribes of the East expansion. For me, that was a smash hit, I really loved that one - especially the Necromancer campaign.
Still, at times I go back to Heroes 3 and play it as well. Currently, I'm working my way through the Heroes Chronicles games (thanks, Gog.com! Never could lay my hands on it before) and having a blast doing so. Yes, it plays different from Heroes 5, but it has its own merits.
One of the main differences I guess, is the representation of the adventure map. In Heroes 3, it's more symbolic. In Heroes 5, it's a lot more immersive / realistic. Both have their appeals and beauty and I find it hard to tell which I like more. Heroes 5's battle maps are more vivid and dynamic, in my opinion (not to mention 3D, as opposed to Heroes 3's 2D maps), though the more static nature of the Heroes 3 battle maps give me a somewhat better piece of mind to more carefully plan a strategy to beat the enemy.
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thundertitan
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 09, 2011 10:27 AM |
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Quote:
I got bored of it however because it played exactly like H5 EXCEPT it didn't have nearly as much faction and hero variation. I
Bah, i hate it when people confuse limitations for variation... not being able to make a Barbarian that can cast Armageddon is one less option, not more.
Just leave the special faction skill (and sub-skills) to be class specific and make every other skill available to everyone... then balance them so there are no OP builds.
Make the factions different by their creatures and town bonuses.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 09, 2011 10:39 AM |
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Quote:
I would agree with that. For Heroes 3 there exist unbelievable maps.
Long long ago I've played the XXL "Ultima" map, with Avatar and Lord British and stuff, it was the most fascinating thing EVER. H5 just doesn't have that kind of epic adventures for the reasons mentioned already by Alci: bad AI, bad engine, bad editor.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 09, 2011 11:08 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:10, 09 Aug 2011.
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Personally, I never felt the need to download any custom maps.
I'm rather casual and H2 and H3 still remains some of my favorite games ever,
and not just in terms of playability.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 09, 2011 11:11 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 11:16, 09 Aug 2011.
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You can not judge H5 and H6 without comparing them to the old game - they are part of the series.
The most interesting part is, that H4 passed, H5 passed, and I do not play them anymore. But do play H3 still. It happened to many. And the same is going to happen with H6
Quote:
while i DID like Heroes V, i quickly went back to III for a simple reason: atmosphere. it just FEELS awesome, and i never got that little bit from V. otherwise, V TotE is the better game, III just has the better feel.
This is very important for me also. H5 don't have atmosphere. It get boring after time, some times after the first combat if it happens to be zombies or golems...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 09, 2011 11:30 AM |
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Quote:
it played exactly like H5 EXCEPT it didn't have nearly as much faction and hero variation.
Erm... what?
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted August 09, 2011 11:33 AM |
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I disagree about atmosphere. I think H5 has it good, it's just that the unbelievably horrible campaign story doesn't do it justice.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 09, 2011 11:49 AM |
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Quote:
Erm... what?
I think he meant town and hero specialties.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 09, 2011 11:56 AM |
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Even in TotE Heroes V still had one faction less than Heroes III in AB and there was nothing special about the towns. As for the heroes - yes, the specialities were more variegated but then again you have only one hero type per faction in Heroes V and two in Heroes III so this point is debatable at best.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 09, 2011 11:59 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
it played exactly like H5 EXCEPT it didn't have nearly as much faction and hero variation.
Erm... what?
Well I deffinitely agree with that statement. You had less unique unit abilities, you had no racial skills, and skill and spell distribution was much more flat in the sense that the sheer number of skills in H3 ment that there was not so much difference between "rare" and "common" skills for each faction.
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What will happen now?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 09, 2011 12:08 PM |
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Well, maybe my mistake but I understand the statement quantitatively, not qualitatively. In the latter case - yes, Heroes V is superior in most regards, although not all.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 09, 2011 12:16 PM |
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I'll have to agree.
In fact, I think one of H5's many shortcomings was a severe lack of heroes,
as well as the unequal number of heroes per faction.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 09, 2011 12:29 PM |
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Quote:
I'll have to agree.
In fact, I think one of H5's many shortcomings was a severe lack of heroes,
as well as the unequal number of heroes per faction.
What do you mean? Barring campaign heroes, most of which you do not get to play, every faction had 8 heroes. I call that hardly unequal.
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