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| Thread: All things Belgium |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 09, 2011 06:20 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:23, 09 Dec 2011.
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All things Belgium
Seriously, how has this country possibly not split into three countries yet?
In cheerier news, though, congrats to the Belgians for electing an atheistic, openly gay head of government. 
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2011 06:33 PM |
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And I hear good things about the waffles but reserve my judgement until I can try them =)
I believe Belgium has been held together so long due to the National unity provided by being a major invasion route to France in 2 world wars.
I wish Belgians only the best. Congratulations on the election.
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Darkshadow
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posted December 09, 2011 06:34 PM |
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How is it even possible their political parties pulled off from their lock? 
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Tsar-Ivor
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Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted December 09, 2011 07:28 PM |
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Mussels.
That is all. 
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Lexxan
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Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 09, 2011 08:23 PM |
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Well, barely anyone cares anymore here. The average population's sentiments towards the whole matter have decended into a worrying, but satisfying state of nihilism/unrelentless souratitude, me included. We simply can't be bothered by it anymore. Most, at least. The fact the N-VA, the party most vocally displeased by the entire matter is growin g in support and numbers as we speak, is a very glaring example of general displeasure of the common opinion towards the political ineffiencies that have tormented out country for over a decade now.
Now, personally, I'm not a big fan of the new government, but I'll have to give Di Rupo some props for persevering for so long (although he DID throw in the towell a couple of times during the 1.5 years he led the negotiations).
This coming from someone who DESPISES nearly every other Socialist politician in Belgium, I guess that is kind of a compliment... eventhough Di Rupo is so borderline inoffencive it is difficult to resent him. It would be like resenting a stationary freeway phone or a bread vending machine.
The MAIN issue why I dislike the new government has little to do with Di Rupo. It has all to do with everything else.
1) Nearly ALL the "new" ministers come from the previous government, the only difference being their portfolios. (EG: Reynders is the new Foreign Secretary, coming from Finances, Milquet is the Secretary of Internal Affairs (previously being the Labour Secretary), etc.).
I mean, eventhough the negociators have preaches a LOT about change and important reformations.... they actually have done VERY little about it. Structurally speaking, there's barely a change, only the Flemish socialists are now into the Government. All the other governmental parties have partaken in the previous government. Some change right there, folks!
2) The "agreements" the new government is built upon are... well, disappointing. They were supposed to agree upon VERY drastic decrees and measures in order to save as much money as possible. Instead, the created some "fauxgreement" with taxation of stuff like "company cars" or minor social insurances.
The measures are really, REALLY mild (because they are focused on the longterm, and likely only to have effect when or even after Di Rupo's legislature end4s in 2014). And that's just the more efficient ones. There are measures that will be only enforced as late as 2017! That is really ridiculous and almost insulting to the average Belgian Citizen, because the Finacial accords only serve to post-pone the economic measures the country actually (and oh so desperately) needs.
Furthermore the tax levels in Belgium are already high enough as they are (up to more than HALF of the total income in the upper middle class), yet the middle class citizens will be charged with even more taxes. The Upper Midlde class, like my own family, will have the biggest financial burdens of the new governamental agreements, (stuff like company cars, and gas and company phones and road usage will be taxed now) while the actuallyrich people are spared of most due to loopholes that allows them to avoid most of these taxes.
All in all, there are very little reforms and measures that benefit Belgium in the short term. The overdue split of the Brussels/Halle/Vilvoorde county is the only actually good thing to come out of this debacles, save the new government ending the state of lawfully authorized anarchy (which admittedly wasn't even that noticable in every day life).
It is sad that the biggest, most successfully reform of the past year and a half is a measure pasy by Leterme (our previous PM) himself: The "Staatsbon", or rather: "Obligations to the State" which, similar to stock shares, can be bought by the citizens in exchange for very interesting longterm financial advantages (don't ask me what exactly they are, I'm terrible at remembering economic stuff due to a severe lack of interest). All in all, it yielded up to 5 BILLION Euros in Cash. Probably the only good thing Leterme ever did during his reign as prime minister.
3) Another glaring problem, and the last one I'll list for now, is the fact the government has, yet again a minority in Flanders. Strickly speaking, this means that, according to the constitution, this government is de facto ILLEGAL, as it is supposed to represent at least half of the voters in Flanders, Brussels and Wallonia. The thing is.... nobody cares, although it is constitutionally unacceptable. SPA/Open VLD/CD&V do'nt represent 50% of the Flemish public, but this is in direct contrast to Wallonia. The Socialist, Liberal and Christian-Democrat parties in Wallonia represent over 85% of the public vote.
See the imbalance here?
Any measures this government will take, are very likely to hurt Flanders on an financial and economic level in favor of Wallonia, which will squander most of the money they receive from us. You see, in Wallonia, corruption is VERY rampant, mostly thanks to the PS's nearly-feudal social systems of "clientelism", where they use the funds (most of the coming from us, Flanders) to buy the loyalty of the local industrial intances and voters alike.
4) Due to the problems noted in points 1, 2 and 3, the Flemish population will likely grow even MORE embittered towards the government, leading into more votes for the N-VA (which isn't that good because the Wallonian parties REFUSE to negociate with them.. and without French-speaking parties, no government), leading to more instability and fragmentation.
Truly, the best thing for this country is, and that is just my opinion, to separate it asap and merge Wallonia with France or Germany and be done with it. Belgium was alreadyrotten to the core and was slowly imploding before and I -grimly- predict this goverment will change little to that.
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DagothGares
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posted December 09, 2011 08:36 PM |
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Quote:
Seriously, how has this country possibly not split into three countries yet?
In cheerier news, though, congrats to the Belgians for electing an atheistic, openly gay head of government.
Thanks, let's hope the nationalist party never ever gets their dirty hands on our favourite nation of Burgundians.
And the answer, corribus, is food, apathy and love.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 09, 2011 08:39 PM |
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DagothGares
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posted December 09, 2011 08:45 PM |
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No one sollicited for your opinion.
EDIT: nor mine
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Lexxan
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posted December 09, 2011 08:47 PM |
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Well, since we are the only Belgians on this board (and therefor the people who are supposed to care), we are supposed to give SOME sort of reaction is it not?
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kodial79
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posted December 09, 2011 10:48 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 22:48, 09 Dec 2011.
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Sorry, not a Belgian, but if I am allowed to speak my mind, it doesn't feel right that Di Rupo is your new Prime Minister...
Not talking about him being gay and an atheist, I don't care about that. In fact, that's a good thing, if you ask me.
But there's more...
It's that he's a freemason too and there's the Dutroux affair. That's what doesn't sit well with me.
I know, a lot of politicians and otherwise powerful people are freemasons. Our own too. But I just can't trust these guys when there's so much secrecy involved.
Call me closeminded, but had I the power, I would ban freemansonry. I'm an atheist too, and don't care about religion. But freemasons unsettle me just like satanists would unsettle a christian.
And then he was proven innocent on the Dutroux Affair, I know. But I also know that many powerful people get to be proven innocent when they should not be.
Now I don't claim that he's guilty ofcourse, I have no basis to say that. Just because of this, I can't trust him.
I'm not a Belgian and so I just don't know the details on this. Probably you people there know better or at least, I hope you do. But to me, he's a very shady character.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted December 09, 2011 10:49 PM |
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I don't see how being a freemason could be considered a bad thing .
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kodial79
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How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 09, 2011 10:51 PM |
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Quote:
I don't see how being a freemason could be considered a bad thing .
I don't see how it could be considered a good thing.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted December 09, 2011 10:54 PM |
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Keeps things nice and civil.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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kodial79
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How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 09, 2011 11:00 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 23:02, 09 Dec 2011.
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They do?
How would I know? With all the secrecy involved...
They should come out in the open about who they are and what are their practices. Then we would talk.
It's a good thing Di Rupo admits he's a freemason. But he's one of the few ones that are open about it, so that doesn't say much. What about the rest of them? Who are they? If these people are in positions power, the world should know about them.
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DagothGares
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posted December 09, 2011 11:06 PM |
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Political apathy, kodial. To me, Di Rupo (yes, a geranic name if I've ever seen one) is just some Socialist party leader from the walloons. Dutroux affair is something I am too young for (seriously, I was 4) and yeah, he was proven innocent and googling the accuser yields a not very pretty picture of him.
About the freemasonry though, we've had more prime ministers that were freemasons and they did reasonably. They may be slaughtering and drinking the blood of a virgin every tuesday, but it doesn't seem to affect policy, so eh.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 09, 2011 11:07 PM |
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Di Rupo being a freemason is completely new to me (especially since the KNOWN Freemason politicians (like the European Commisionary for Trade Karel De Gught),are all Liberals, not Socialists)
It doesn't matter to me though.
And Dutroux was proven guilty. There was evidence of in the form of his own DNA found on the bodies of his victims. If you -somehow- believe freemasonry is behind those murders, framing Dutroux, I'd quickly advise you to spot reading Dan Brown Novels before the ludicracy spreads.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted December 09, 2011 11:11 PM |
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The world keeps turning. That's all that matters.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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kodial79
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Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 09, 2011 11:13 PM |
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@DagothGares
Considering Belgium has to take austerity measures too, so they didn't do too well, did they?
But, well, that doesn't have anything to do with a country's economy. Well, at least, I hope so!
See, one just can't make heads or tails with their kind. And I guess, it's true, you fear what you don't understand.
In fact, I would leave them alone to their practice, if they were not people who are powerful like that. Such people should not keep such secrets. Isn't that a reasonable request?
@lexxan
Uh, no. I mentioned separately Di Rupo's involvement in the Dutroux Affair and that he's a freemason. I didn't connect the two and I didn't intend to do so either. I consider them completely unrelated too.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 09, 2011 11:14 PM |
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Then that's faulty reading comprehention on my behalf. My apologies.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted December 09, 2011 11:15 PM |
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Seriously, when you internet-denizens talk about Belgium, you always talk smack about apathy and not-Antwerp and Dutroux and how we're a communist bilgewater haven of pirates (well, okay, that pretty much describes Antwerp) and freemasonsand slavery, with maybe one off-hand comment about waffles.
But never about the good stuff, like eating, self-derision and the ability to acquire languages.
I'm not kidding about eating.
EDIT:
Quote:
In fact, I would leave them alone to their practice, if they were not people who are powerful like that. Such people should not keep such secrets. Isn't that a reasonable request?
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?... You don't want the truth..."
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