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| Thread: The Great Purification of WoG... Or something. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Trith
Adventuring Hero
Not a Hero... Just a... Nobody
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posted January 27, 2012 11:29 PM |
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The Great Purification of WoG... Or something.
Well... Today we have dozens of mods for WoG with various features.
I wonder, is there anybody, who plays "pure" WoG?
Perhaps not. At least that's what I see.
Why?
Mabybe because WoG is in fact bunch of imbalanced scripts and some random, outdated graphics?
So...
Maybe it isn't bad idea to "purificate" WoG? To throw away scripts, which are only examples of ERM, not suited for everyday use? Today rendered 3D units are standards of more serious mods, but in official WoG (v. 3.58f) we still have even exact copies of existing units with only colors changed or "frankensteins". Not to mention adventure map objects, well... "borrowed" from other games.
And last thing: WoG doesn't contain any plot/storyline connected with Might&Magic universe. Maybe it isn't as important as other aspects, but still counts.
Well... Why am I talking about this?
Is there anybody willing...
To take part in quite ambitious project of re-creating most of WoG with new quailty to make it, well... Playable?
I know, it looks like some kind of those infamous "I have an idea for a mod...", but it can be done.
But I'll need some help to do anything... So... Anybody?
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Forgive me my horrible English...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 12:41 AM |
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I guess Fnord or Slava would be very disappointed with such suggestion.
Sure, choosing one or another script when playing can lead to unbalance, but you still have the choice, all do not mix happily together, but each one is still very strong when independent.
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units with only colors changed or "frankensteins". Not to mention adventure map objects, well... "borrowed" from other games.
I never had the feeling WoG is about graphics, but more about "look what could be done, if you have the skill". About objects, I know Astaroth is on a huge project about replacing WoG objects with hand made ones. Myself I prefer from far creatures or objects from other games instead of poorly hand made, but Astaroth made amazing ones, which I already use, so I can't complain.
Now, if one would have the skill to make new models for level 8, I don't say no...
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Era II mods and utilities
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 28, 2012 12:46 AM |
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Do you blame the hammer when the house you built with it isn't all you imagined it should or could be?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted January 28, 2012 02:03 AM |
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shouldn't it be better to try and join one of the many existing wog projects and help to their development that start another one?(and give us some news on grove also )
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 28, 2012 04:56 AM |
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Hammer, for house construction?  I see what you tried to say, but the analogy doesn't make much sense .
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 11:20 AM |
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted January 28, 2012 02:08 PM |
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I guess Fnord or Slava would be very disappointed with such suggestion.
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I never had the feeling WoG is about graphics
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Do you blame the hammer when the house you built with it isn't all you imagined it should or could be?
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shouldn't it be better to try and join one of the many existing wog projects and help to their development that start another one?
Eh, that's not the point. Really.
As far as I have understood Trith does not want to blame anyone. He wants to make WoG more professional add-on, a little bit like HotA... but it's not like we will throw away all ERM and make everything completely new and then name it In the another Wake of Gods.
No, it's about remaking WoG and ERA graphics, scripts etc. so it wouldn't be just a platform for lots of mods, but a playable add-on - something that installed on pure SoD without anything else wouldn't scare a lot of people.
And I'm into it. Even if it's insane.
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and give us some news on grove also
...it's kinda complicated.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 28, 2012 03:43 PM |
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I feel the most argues about wog lately have been due to it having a combination of extremely good editing tools with really lackluster and subpar content.
While I do not object various scripts in different "personal" distributions of WoG, i feel the "official" one (latest being 3.58f) should indeed consist of content that follows at least some quality standards. most of the questionable options should be left out, and instead included in some type of "testing distribution" instead.
Hope I make sense.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 04:58 PM |
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And who will state which scripts are 100% "questionable"? I find every of them very interesting, if used on purpose. Some of them are a must to have, as no plague, no spawn, prohibit certain spells/arties. Others are a matter of taste, some I like, others less, other people probably like the ones I don't and so on. How to please everyone then?
Also, as Cor stated, WoG is the hammer you use to build your house. What could be more professional than an already existing tool which allows you to create everything you need, assuming you have the knowledge? I don't see this in any of the modern games and searched hard.
I would prefer to add stability to already existing things, eliminate bugs and also replace the 8th level with some uniques, why not. But this is an extremely hard thing to do, as with oblivion mods, there are always some not compatible with others and vice versa.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted January 28, 2012 05:17 PM |
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most of the questionable options should be left out, and instead included in some type of "testing distribution" instead
I don't believe all these 'questionable options' were meant to be played seriously in first place. Some totaly random scripts like "fishing in well" seem to be more scripting showcase than a creation of any value.
But as you can see, people still spawn scripts at random, including recently releases Fnord's scripts and legendary Sagamosa scripts, which only pretend to make a consistent whole.
People just create anything they can because creation of regular content (creatures, arts, towns) is extremely difficult. I agree there should be some boundaries of acceptable creations, but until very recently there was nothing to give in reward (HoTA).
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted January 28, 2012 05:49 PM |
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Edited by Alustor at 17:51, 28 Jan 2012.
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bad's recent work on scripts is also not to be forgotten.also what you guys are trying to do sound like a simpler version of vcmi,so why not joining it?with vcmi you will be able to add witch scripts you like,units,map objects,towns,etc
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 28, 2012 06:13 PM |
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Problem is that too many people view WoG as an add-on, and of course judged by those criteria it fails. If you view it as more of a tool set, you'll see it accomplishes exactly what it means to, and the possibilities become virtually (though not completely, as I've found. ) endless.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 28, 2012 06:23 PM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 18:31, 28 Jan 2012.
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And who will state which scripts are 100% "questionable"? I find every of them very interesting, if used on purpose. Some of them are a must to have, as no plague, no spawn, prohibit certain spells/arties. Others are a matter of taste, some I like, others less, other people probably like the ones I don't and so on. How to please everyone then?
Also, as Cor stated, WoG is the hammer you use to build your house. What could be more professional than an already existing tool which allows you to create everything you need, assuming you have the knowledge? I don't see this in any of the modern games and searched hard.
I would prefer to add stability to already existing things, eliminate bugs and also replace the 8th level with some uniques, why not. But this is an extremely hard thing to do, as with oblivion mods, there are always some not compatible with others and vice versa.
I really don't mind the hammer. In this case its pretty solid and shiny hammer at that. What I dislike is the extra packaging that comes with the hammer. This hammer comes with 100 people that will come to my house and repaint everything (not necessarily to my liking). Makes the hammer look worse than it actually is.
As in real example it's among these lines. I would completely remove any extra graphics (including creatures - especially level 8s) until they become of quality that is at least on par with original H3 ones. Until then the mere existence of them waters down whole creature pool to me.
Then again, different people do have different tastes, and I'm not trying to say my view is the best one, but opinion is as valid as anyone elses.
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Problem is that too many people view WoG as an add-on, and of course judged by those criteria it fails. If you view it as more of a tool set, you'll see it accomplishes exactly what it means to, and the possibilities become virtually (though not completely, as I've found. ) endless.
This is a problem of presentation. WoG is presented as an addon to people that stumble upon it. Only ones that actually played it for a while know that its tool value greatly outweights its addon content value. It should be more obvious at start to remove the confusion and initial dislike that many have towards a great H3 tool.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 06:43 PM |
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Nothing forces you to play it, after all. Those among few who actually peeked into ERM, know what is about. Others who just look for nice monsters, there is a large choice in other games. Or simply disable them, they are as option, right? As every other options, btw. The 100 people coming to your house to paint wait for individual approval, is not like an invasion.
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Era II mods and utilities
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 28, 2012 07:04 PM |
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Yes, i have to turn down all 100 of them. A slight inconvenience but inconvenience nonetheless.
But is that the way you would want to buy a simple hammer? Or in the case of seller/maker - is that the way to sell the hammer?
I would prefer the approach where you simply get the hammer, while additional content (all included scripts) is available as separate download if one so desires.
But it's pretty clear we disagree on this. Which is fine as it would be a boring world if everyone shared same opinion  .
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 07:17 PM |
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Nothing prohibits any of you to create a custom settings dat, remove any scripts he dislikes and release new wog. I was just giving my advice why you won't get much help for. But you can do it yourself
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Era II mods and utilities
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Trith
Adventuring Hero
Not a Hero... Just a... Nobody
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posted January 28, 2012 07:40 PM |
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with vcmi you will be able to add witch scripts you like,units,map objects,towns,etc
It isn't about "what I/we/you/someone else likes", it's (or at least should be) about quality. When I want something fancy, I install a certain mod.
As Hobbit said (thanks, Hobb  ), the idea is to make WoG a bit more professional, to make it more add-on than a tool just full of quite chaotic examples.
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Problem is that too many people view WoG as an add-on, and of course judged by those criteria it fails.
I don't claim that WoG is something evil. I even understand that WoG now is more a base for mods than regular add-on.
But is it that wrong to change it a little? I don't want to make "An-Ultra-Great-Revolution-to-show-everyone-how-awesome-I-am" I don't want to it to be " 'the add-on', and only 'the addon' ".
I like WoG mostly for mods, but I thik it'll be something good to improve WoG into something more playable, professional and universal. I think that it is a good idea to give people WoG-as-add-on, when they still expect it to be add-on, not modding platform. Today WoG is for modders, not for players.
The question is, who need which elements of WoG.
A modder needs for example some slots to add/replace creatures and other graphics and needs to write some scripts for mod. Modder doesn't need bunch of other scripts included in WoG and doesn't need four copies of golem with changed colors or already existing scripts (which usually aren'y compatible with mod).
A common player needs some scripts (depending on personal taste, of course) which are balanced, not random and enjoyable. Also needs some new eye catching units and other graphics... And maybe some interesting campaign and storyline... A common player doesn't need four copies of almost identical golems and dozens of strange scripts which only purpose is to show power of ERM.
So the main idea of this, is to make something more enjoyable for common player. Modders won't suffer much of it's fault. They usually replace most of WoG in their mods anyway.
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I was just giving my advice why you won't get much help for. But you can do it yourself
I understand. I woludn't start this kind of discussion, if I weren't able to do something real for project... Well... Ok, it's only some talking now, and nobody is interested in helping. I just hoped for support of some reasonable people from WoG modding scene. It doesn't mean that I want them to work for me. Even advice about what is not good enough for playing in WoG would be valuable.
Otherwise even if this project wil be finished, it'll be "just another mod", not some kind of new standard, which of course will be nothing more than a consensus between a group of involved modders.
So the first thing to do will be to achieve this consensus and to precise, what is to change in WoG.
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Forgive me my horrible English...
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted January 28, 2012 07:58 PM |
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playable, professional and universal is something that varies from player to player.i personally like wog just as it is now and i customize it however i want every time i play a new map(thou most of that maps i play have their own set of scripts);i'm not gonna say that this is a bad ideea but i allready think that wog can be personalized a lot as it is but good luck if you are going to start anyway
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Aleee
Known Hero
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posted January 28, 2012 08:40 PM |
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I totally agree with Alustor: did you see a magic button named "WoG Options"? If you did, you must know that WoG is customizable and it always was. Why can't you just disable those scripts you don't like instead of cutting them off for good?
Hate new creatures? Download Era, make a custom lod and fill it with all substitutes found that you like. You can even share this lod with others, but do we really need "purified" versions? I doubt it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2012 08:51 PM |
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Yes, i have to turn down all 100 of them. A slight inconvenience but inconvenience nonetheless.
People...are you serious?
Open WoG options, uncheck those you hate 100%. Save options. Next time you play, load your custom settings, all you unchecked will remain unchecked. Too much effort really?
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Era II mods and utilities
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