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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 10, 2012 08:02 PM |
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted April 10, 2012 08:06 PM |
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The thread has been renamed,not deleted. link http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/666287-Post-from-Heroes-Community
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Quique30
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 10, 2012 08:26 PM |
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It was done by a moderator, which is fine. It WAS off-topic. And he was kind enough to transfer all posts after that. Note that he refers to Ubi as "they".
Whether it was seen by Ubi devs, who's to know. But I don't care if they do, as long as everyone else does. It's really intended to make them aware. Ubi knows this stuff.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted April 10, 2012 09:11 PM |
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Man, adrian must have deleted his post from the ubi weather effects thread <I liked it>
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted April 10, 2012 09:38 PM |
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Quote:
That seems to be the full version. And the one posted here and in other forums, an edition of it.
Unlike the first one, this one explains the amount of bugs in the game and why it's taking so long for the new patches to come out. (...)
Actually, it seems the version from the Ubi forums is a first version of the post. My guess is that the original author edited the post and added a paragraph about the bugs.
We have a screenshot of the original post from HC by Derpson and it was edited by him at 14:08, 09 Apr 2012.
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Quique30
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 10, 2012 10:10 PM |
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Edited by Quique30 at 22:14, 10 Apr 2012.
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Possibly. I don't understand the spoken language in that forum. But it seems to me that quote, dated today if I'm not mistaken, is a quote itself. Where it came from and when it was originally posted, I have no idea.
Edit: Actually, HC is named in the head of that post. Maybe it was even an early version of the same one posted here. I don't really understand what it says 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted April 11, 2012 08:32 AM |
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Quote:
The thread has been renamed,not deleted. link http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/666287-Post-from-Heroes-Community
But this link is further linked back to page 8 of this thread, so going in circles here.
Is this post by so-called BH employee valid and real?
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted April 11, 2012 02:26 PM |
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Edited by krs at 14:29, 11 Apr 2012.
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Just great! This confirms that we will not see sh!t done to this game in the foreseeable future with big chances that we will get a low quality Academy no sooner than next year.
Here my two cents prediction about future development of H6: (Nothing against the German developers, it is just what sounds realistic to me)
First some facts/assumptions
- Money involved cannot be that great since the game is already on the market + this is a German company where the costs are at least 3-4 times higher than in Hungary. => Small team, with little to no incentives to work overtime, with Saturdays out of the question in Germany.
- Further developing a code made by another company with slightly less men-power is close to suicidal at best. Imagine the results with less men, much lower overall knowledge of the project and considerably less working times...
The flimsy patch 1.3 was most likely delayed because of code problems and then they ran into Easter Holidays. Does this tells us something about the future? Guess what! May is again full of free days and all of them are bridge days (Thursdays and Tuesdays) => more actual non working days. => the delays will propagate and we will land into summer holidays and guess what? Germans have lost of them and they are close to "sacred". So imagine the amount of work that will be done with a team of 2-3 man rotating every 2-3 weeks. (And to this overlapping holidays with the French can be added...)
The current plan for SMALL patches was/is until end of August. At this current/predicted rate, they will either ran into November/December or they will have to cut even from the small stuff they were up to.
I have no idea how far the Academy faction really is but most likely is in an incipient phase => new faction... next year just before/after Easter if we are lucky.
So with all this it is highly questionable how much content will be added to H6. And most likely that we will see the plug pulled on the series.
My advice if you want to have some players left for H6: Fix custom maps for multiplayer, improve the map editor and release the modding tools asap.
ps. 1 Month to Diablo III.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 11, 2012 02:43 PM |
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Patch 1.3 is a joke, why would you even wait for it? It fixes nothing of real importance. A gameplay-orientated parch is what the game needs - actually several of them - and you are right that we won't get anything major in the next several months. Fingers crossed to see the franchise sold before the end of the year (unlikely but still...).
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G0b1in
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 11, 2012 03:16 PM |
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Edited by G0b1in at 15:17, 11 Apr 2012.
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fingers crossed the franchise will get sold at all. If not, there's little hope for Heroes 7 in the future.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted April 11, 2012 05:34 PM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 17:35, 11 Apr 2012.
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Quote:
I don't think anybody cares about Ashan actually, it failed to become even remotely interesting several times. Among the M&M games on the other hand, Heroes has always been and will always be the only major commercial title, the rest are just for flavour (even though the M&M RPGs spawned Heroes in the first place).
True but the sad part is that if the want they don't even have to bother to say it's in Ashan just that is in alternative universe stick the Might and Magic brand and milk it, after all the did that with the pre H5 universe.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted April 11, 2012 06:23 PM |
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Quote:
Money involved cannot be that great since the game is already on the market + this is a German company where the costs are at least 3-4 times higher than in Hungary. => Small team, with little to no incentives to work overtime, with Saturdays out of the question in Germany.
This is correct, but for this same reason skilled Hungarian programmers work abroad, many in Germany. They do not stay in their homeland, unless their is a specific reason to do so, like finishing their university study. So I am actually quite optimistic with this change. I dont really believe in this so called ultra complexity of the code, a small team should be sufficient, according to my experience it is really not the size that matters. They will probably need some reverse engineering and some refactoring, so maybe we will not see anything significant in this year, but eventually the development should speed up. Judging from the huge amount of bugs the code is probably in a very bad shape. And that is why it is so difficult to make changes in it, not because it is big. This is a very typical case. I've seen however very bad quality code from germans as well, and I dont know mentioned company (Limbic?), so things may as well become even worse, however I dont see why it would be better to continue with BH. Maybe I am wrong, and BH employs exceptionally talanted programmers and UBI is the exclusive evil guy but this is very unlikely to me. Would be very interesting to know the truth though and that how much more will UBI invest into this project.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted April 11, 2012 07:07 PM |
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Well... I doubt that there is a difference in skill between the Hungarians and the Germans. It is not important. Personally, for the good of the game, I would have preferred BH to stay and finish the job. H6 is not an easy project and they've done it! They have the accumulated experience and could have implemented the required changes in way less time than the Germans. Anyway its done its up to them now.
It's not like BH did a super top notch job and UBI screwed things up. To me at least it transpires from the one sided ex-BH employer's post that there were enough problems on their side too. Underestimation of effort and complexity is only the biggest one of them.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 11, 2012 09:48 PM |
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Quote:
True but the sad part is that if the want they don't even have to bother to say it's in Ashan just that is in alternative universe stick the Might and Magic brand and milk it, after all the did that with the pre H5 universe.
That is nothing new to the brand.. even 3DO abused the mark where it could and milked it as long as it could....
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted April 12, 2012 08:15 AM |
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Quote:
It's not like BH did a super top notch job and UBI screwed things up.
That's the thing, I think Ubi & BH are in this together.....
It takes integrity to own up and admit to mistakes/faults, but shows weakness blaming the other party.....if Ubi kept moving goalposts and wanted design changes, BH should have told them upfront that it's not possible and will affect deadlines, etc.....
My main concern is this post saying that BH are no longer involved in the patches and going forward....seems like a hoax?
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted April 12, 2012 10:08 AM |
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Quote:
Well... I doubt that there is a difference in skill between the Hungarians and the Germans. It is not important. Personally, for the good of the game, I would have preferred BH to stay and finish the job. H6 is not an easy project and they've done it! They have the accumulated experience and could have implemented the required changes in way less time than the Germans. Anyway its done its up to them now.
It's not like BH did a super top notch job and UBI screwed things up. To me at least it transpires from the one sided ex-BH employer's post that there were enough problems on their side too. Underestimation of effort and complexity is only the biggest one of them.
I agree with you, there is no difference between individual programmers just because they are from different countries. What I was saying, that good Hungarian programmers work abroad, because it is very easy to find a job there. In Hungary the taxes are too high the government is inefficient the country is poor. Their is no point in working here (Im hungarian), unless you do not have any other choice. So what effectively happens is that local companies employ cheap work force, most programmers are beginners. I know this, I work here. Btw, 1 million euro for 6 months??? That is a lot of money, where did it go then? How would you explain it if not with overall inefficiancy of both management and employees. I bet I could develop the full game from scratch given this amount with a team of 4-5 programmers.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted April 12, 2012 10:44 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
if Ubi kept moving goalposts and wanted design changes, BH should have told them upfront that it's not possible and will affect deadlines, etc.....
You are absolutely right, I dont even understand, how could this have happened. Anyway Im not saying that the problem is as simple as I describe it, I described only potential part of the problem. The problem itself is ofcourse much more complex but one can speculate only about parts. And I am not fan of UBI either, their DRM and conflux nonsense and their desing decisions ruined the game as well. Anyway I find the quote of the "mysterious poster" to be true, because it is too realistic to be false.
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Shukfir
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 12, 2012 11:53 AM |
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Edited by Shukfir at 11:59, 12 Apr 2012.
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Quote:
if Ubi kept moving goalposts and wanted design changes, BH should have told them upfront that it's not possible and will affect deadlines, etc.....
It seems to me, that's not enough just simply to tell it Ubi. I feel, that convincing Ubi - is much more hard work. BH could say "What are you doing? This design choice will kill the game" and Ubi could answer "We have more expirience in making games. We've been making games for many years. And we've been a publisher of this game. So we know what we do. And you must do what we say to make the game profitable".
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted April 12, 2012 01:43 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
if Ubi kept moving goalposts and wanted design changes, BH should have told them upfront that it's not possible and will affect deadlines, etc.....
It seems to me, that's not enough just simply to tell it Ubi. I feel, that convincing Ubi - is much more hard work. BH could say "What are you doing? This design choice will kill the game" and Ubi could answer "We have more expirience in making games. We've been making games for many years. And we've been a publisher of this game. So we know what we do. And you must do what we say to make the game profitable".
I wonder what sort of contract they have. Normally a frame contract contains a requirement specification and you can't just change it whenever you want. For each change request there is a separate sub contract (order) which has its own financila cost. Subcontractor may refuse it if it endangers overall progress of development. This is how it works for companies which are not interrelated, for example not subsidiaries of each other. Its also so in Hungary.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 12, 2012 01:50 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 13:51, 12 Apr 2012.
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Ubisoft have the final say about the game design in any case, it is ultimately their game that Black Hole are developing. Being the boss, Ubisoft also decides how long certain thing will be under development. Black Hole can be held responsible if they were inefficiently slow but not if they had been given new tasks on regular basis and told to get them done by yesterday.
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This thread is pages long: 
