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| Thread: Is life evil? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 17, 2013 12:14 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:25, 17 Jan 2013.
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Do you really expect me to link pages and pages of stuff I've read over the years or are you just bluffing? If you are, I wont call it. I am really sharing my opinion here, not playing poker with you.
Edit: But I'll share a video. It so fun to debate over these things and this is a good example I've just watched about a month ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbzd6ZbCowY
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted January 17, 2013 12:38 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 00:39, 17 Jan 2013.
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@Seraphim
Quote:
But here is my question that I am really interested to hear an opinion of, how do you reason with reality?
Most people have the "Have a nice time" type of answer, any ideas?
Wow, after a long and hostile rant against "religion" (where you greatly misrepresent what religion is) now you present a short question!!
Reality is. My reasoning changes reality not one iota. Perhaps what you meant is "how do you deal with reality?" I deal with reality by accepting reality for what it is. There are things I can change and things I can't change.
I understand what reality is by my own personal observations, by my life experiences, by listening to others, by reading, by research, by growth in wisdom and knowledge, by seeking council of the Divine. The more I seek to see, the more I see. The more I grow the more I am capable of seeing and capable of seeking. The more I seek, the more I find.
You spoke of making a movie out of life and had a rather glum outlook of it. If we made a movie out of life it would portray the joys of having a child and being a part of his life as he grows and learns and becomes who he choses to be. The joys of becoming one with a spouse and sharing the joys and sorrows of life. The joys of sharing with friends. The joys of growing into a mature person. And many other joyous things. Yes, life has joys. Yep, life has sorrows. Life is not evil because it has sorrows. Sorrows present one with challenges. Challenges prod us to grow. Growing is not always fun in the short term.
You claim that religion and wealth define a man. Certainly one's desire to please God will have an impact on his life, just as one's anger towards God or refusal to seek God will have an impact on his life. True religion comes from inside to outside. As a man thinketh so is he, as Jesus said. Beng "clean" or "unclean" is a heart matter. In that sense a man's internal religion defines him.
Wealth only defines the covetous.
Of course "society" may have certain views of you because of your religious beliefs or because of your level of wealth. But you don't have to allow how society defines you to actually define you. You chose who you become by your moment by moment thoughts, deeds, and actions.
You claim the ultimate law of nature is "Consume or be consumed" or "kill or be killed" "Breed and kill." And yet heroes have risked their lives to save strangers in burning buildings, have gone to the rescue of an innocent person being attacked, have lain down their lives that others might live. So one can transcend such a "law." I'd also point out that there are vegetarians, vegans, and childless adults.
Your rant many times claims life and the universe has no purpose, no meaning, no value and comes an ultimate end of non-existence. You have reached the logical conclusion of atheism. Unfortunately a world view that rejects the spiritual side of life is lopsided and can only reach such a conclusion.
Life is not evil. Life is good. 
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Revelation
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 17, 2013 12:44 AM |
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Great post , enjoyed to read it up until this part:
Quote:
Your rant many times claims life and the universe has no purpose, no meaning, no value and comes an ultimate end of non-existence. You have reached the logical conclusion of atheism. Unfortunately a world view that rejects the spiritual side of life is lopsided and can only reach such a conclusion.
Mainly because Seraphim wrote:
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I dont want a religious debate.
Quote:
But here is my question that I am really interested to hear an opinion of, how do you reason with reality?
Most people have the "Have a nice time" type of answer, any ideas?
Reality is the very dynamic environment you were born into, and have to adapt to. You decide what you want. Then use your intelligence to get what you want given the environment you're in.
So simply put, do whatever you want to do. If you find emotions, part of the reality you were born into, worthy of the limited time where you believe you've the possibility to interact, then by all means, go for it, given that's what you want.
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Living time backwards
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 17, 2013 02:55 AM |
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Quote:
But here is my question that I am really interested to hear an opinion of, how do you reason with reality?
Most people have the "Have a nice time" type of answer, any ideas?
Reality just exists. You can reason with certain parts of reality (i.e. people), but you can't reason with most of it (nature, physical laws, etc). But you can analyze it and figure out how it works. Then, through your efforts, you can change part of it - probably only a small part. It is easiest to change the part of it that's closest to you - you can make new friends, move to a different town, paint your house, get a different job, etc.
You say the law of nature is "kill or be killed". That overlooks a large amount of symbiotic behavior (look at ants and aphids, for example). Furthermore, what kind of law is it? Will someone punish us for not following it? Yes, we eat plants to survive, and animals because we enjoy their taste. What of it?
As for purpose - how can something have purpose independently of something that gives it purpose? As reasoning beings, we can give things purpose. What purpose does a hammer have in nature? None. But in the hands of a human, it has the purpose of hammering nails. Purpose isn't something that exists "out there", waiting for us to find it. If you look for purpose "out there", you won't find it because that's not how it works. Each of us gives things purpose - we look at the world, analyze it, and see, "Aha, this can be used for that, and that can be used for this."
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Eccentric Opinion
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 17, 2013 08:51 AM |
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Quote:
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So. No obligations. No gods that want to be worshipped. Just a gift that everyone can try to make the best of. Or just throw away.
Yes, thats a way to put it straight. But making a purpose out of life might lead to some pretty weak reasons.
Imo, we are living for our pleasures but if there are no pleasures to be made and only the hope of something better to come remains, thats in my book a pointless life. We can hope for many things, but many are unrealistic and probably never gonna happen.
The hope of getting candies while you are bombarded with "No candies will come" "Everyone tries to steal your candies" and so on, makes it a somewhat hard for a child work for.
Isnt nothingness better than being trapped or imprisoned for life?
I am talking about a pointless life such as those people living in africa, slums or whatever dumpsites of modern society?
I would argue that for them, the best course of action would be no human birth.
I would argue for yes but then that would end this discussion. How sad.
I think, you are making a serious error here. First of all, happiness is relative and depends on how you are born and raised, because that situation and environment is what you view as normal - it's calibrating living beings. Which means, that it makes no sense to view other life through a differently calibrated perspective, because all that is rather subjective.
Secondly, all things (THING being meant as "matter") must pass, which is - imo - what the Bible talks of when eating the apple. Being able to extrapolate the future undoubtedly has certain massive advantages, but it comes with the disadvantage that it also gives the ability to extrapolate the negative aspects of existence. All life and all joy is finite - but that is only so diificult to cope with because life and the joy that comes with it is so beautiful and wondrous, and if it isn't momentarily it can be extrapolated as potentially so as easily as the other way round.
Thirdly, it is in your power to end your own life, if it becomes unbearable - it's not like you really must drink the cup to the last dregs, right? So you can always return to the state of before your birth, and this is a rather disturbing thought only, because, as before, life seems so full of potential.
This is simply the price of the fact that there is something AT ALL, because it seems there can only be something if there is a balance: when there is something positive there is necessarily something negative, because if there wasn't, "positive" was the only thing and therefore "0". If you feel joy for getting something you din't have before, then you will feel sorrow or sad, when you lose it, and losing it you can just as well as getting it.
Philosophically spoken, it makes no sense to feel bad about what is inevitable or outside of your influence. You don't feel good all the time, because you were once born, so why feel bad because you will one day die? It's not birth or death that matters, but what lies in between.
Would it really help you, if you knew, "I'm a tiny little wheel in the billions of years long effort of the universe to transcend the limits of matter, an effort that will take a couple billion years more?" Wouldn't you still lose yourself in the vastness of it all, in the sheer scope?
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted January 17, 2013 01:40 PM |
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@Seraphim,have you ever heard of DNA?
Its very complex ammount of genes,which defy every part of the body of a living organism.
In case of us,humans,the hair cells and fingernails also contain our DNA,which stays long after the body is dead.
And our bones remain too for thousands and millions of years.
So yes,the information of who we were stays here for the next generations.
The other point I would like to make,is that we can change most of aspects of reality all around us!
Do you think anyone,who lived in the 19th century,would picture the electricity we have now,the connections we have to share all kind of information to any part of the world?
It would remeble a miracle to them!
Other scientific fact is that we as humans use only less than 10 % of our brain.Is it very hard to ask yourself what if we could use more of the human brain?
I agree with the fact that I as a person can change part of my reality and I can choose to always look on the bright side of life !
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 17, 2013 01:54 PM |
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Great addition, ML
Quote:
Other scientific fact is that we as humans use only less than 10 % of our brain.
It depends on exactly what you mean. Only 10% of the brain cells? No, that'd be absurd.
Only at 10% capacity of what we could potentially become? No doubt we're getting better at what we do, but giving a number such as "10%" is a bit random.
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Living time backwards
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted January 17, 2013 02:29 PM |
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Since I havent read anything recently about the exact percents of brain usage,I opened to read the wiki information.It is written there,that the 10% is a myth and every brain cell have a function,which the cell do from time to time.
But I believe every one of us knows about Mozart,who composed at the age of five,less of us about Morphy and Capablanca as chess prodigies,Reshevsky,who was giving simultaneous exibitions at the age of six and many other gifted children,who has shown remarkable abilities for their age.
About changing the reality,one song of Michael Jackson comes to my mind-Man in the mirror.I dont forget that part of the change would surely be to change myself.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 17, 2013 05:00 PM |
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Quote:
Since I havent read anything recently about the exact percents of brain usage,I opened to read the wiki information.It is written there,that the 10% is a myth and every brain cell have a function,which the cell do from time to time.
and they may even take the function of other cells. we just do not use them all at the same time. I suppose it would be like trying to use all the tools in your toolbox at the same time, that would be pretty hard with just 2 hands and probably useless.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 17, 2013 10:44 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 22:48, 17 Jan 2013.
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I have been thinking how to make a good reply to this thread. I really could not come up with anything good
All of the responses were enlightening and informative.
At least I have know some pretty good and reasonable arguments for why it was absurd to call: life is evil, trying to define life with few words like "Kill or be killed" or other rather biased things I said.
A good knock in the head.
When I look at this, I feel like I am an undeveloped teenager, when in fact I am physically a young adult.
Excluding anyone from praise would be an injustice because each response was good in my humble opinion, maybe except the first one.
Thank you people, I mean it.
ps:
As for the discussion with the consciousness. I have got a few videos that I watched which TRIED to explain what consciousness is. But since this is a matter of belief, I dont think it would lead to any worthwile discussion.
Some links to some interesting videos:
What Is Consciousness?
BBC Horizon The Secret You
You live in the past
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 17, 2013 11:24 PM |
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Thank you too, and thanks for sharing.
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Living time backwards
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 30, 2013 04:58 AM |
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted January 30, 2013 07:09 AM |
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Life is neither good nor evil. Both these things (good and evil) are defined by the beings that are in that life that have a reasoning capability.
See life does not only include the human animal. Life is all around. From the plants, to the animals, to even the creatures such as amoeba. Which each itself is not evil. Even the weeds, which strangle other life around it in order to succeed and grow, is not evil. It has no intent, ill or otherwise, except one. Grow and spread.
We may think that animals, when they turn on or away from their own kind..culling the weak are evil. Yet, again..no ill intent. Just that they know that keeping the weak and sick will slow them, and might cause more harm then good. By abandoning the sick one, they save dozens. Had they the ability to protect and nurture the sick and ill we do not know how they would react. Case in point, there are several cases of a pack of animals taking in orphaned animals of a completely different species.
Anyhow, rambling and getting off track, sorry about that. The point was that we humans have reasoning..and we determine what is good and evil. In some cultures in the past..looting, pillaging, and dying in battle were considered good. Now, not so much. As much as some would like to believe, religion does not decide what is good or bad, society does.
I believe somebody mentioned or said that religion is for the weak. Made for the poor and weak..no..no it is not. A true believer of religion is often stronger then your average non believer. People have endured torture, death, and persecution for what they believe. Not an easy path. Often they deny themselves what the non believer does not. It could be certain food, pleasures of the flesh, or any number of things. It takes a powerful will to turn away from the 'easy road'. Yes I said the easy road.
Why? Well lets consider this in a logical manner. If you do not believe in the afterlife, there are no consequences for any behavior you do (and can get away with). If the area your in does not have a law against something, then it is even easier to just indulge and not worry about the future.
Sorry, don't want to turn this into yet another pointless religious debate, will move on. In conclusion..life is what you make of it. It can be pointless or it can have a deeper meaning. It is up to you. I view life as a learning experience. I strive to learn something new every day. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but regardless of that days outcome..there is always tomorrow. If not, I won't be around to worry about it..now will I?
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Message received.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 30, 2013 01:00 PM |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 30, 2013 03:44 PM |
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@mytical
Quote:
A true believer of religion is often stronger then your average non believer. People have endured torture, death, and persecution for what they believe. Not an easy path.
Sure, that may imply strength. It may also imply stupidity, stubbornness, a surfeit of pride or a lack of objectivity. Putting your head down and bulling your way forward isn't always a virtue.
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