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| Thread: The American Civil War |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Drakon-Deus
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posted July 04, 2013 01:06 AM |
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Respect for Jeff Davis, president of the Confederate States of America, the nation of the free and just, Dixieland.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted July 05, 2013 03:52 PM |
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Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.
- ROBERT EDWARD LEE 
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 15, 2015 11:28 PM |
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Bump.
Okay, I understand why they did it, but I do think America should stand united... more than ever, now.
And the current South is more Republican, so thumbs up for that. Who said you can't be both with the eagle and the cross?
And I mantain that the Confederate States had justified reasons, and some that have nothing to do with slavery. And whatever you think of them, the South is a great region of the USA to me.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 15, 2015 11:31 PM |
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The Civil War was avoidable and slavery's days were numbered either way (Latin America got rid of it by the late 1880s without a war), but it's a stretch to say that the Confederate States "had nothing to do with slavery". It was the strong arm of their plantations and they didn't want to see it disappear, nor did Queen Victoria or anybody else buying up their products. There was also the looming and fearful question of what to do with over a million black people once they were free, which was a large reason why the American continents lagged behind banning slavery, since all of the imported Africans were a Pandora's box living in the back yard. A lot of people at the time were theoretically sympathetic to abolition but nonetheless cowered at the idea of it, so they remained silent. The not-so-good solution was apparently "live in ghettos and receive crappy pay", which are neighborhoods brimming with substandard living to the present day.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 15, 2015 11:36 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
The Civil War was avoidable and slavery's days were numbered either way (Latin America got rid of it by the late 1880s without a war), but it's a stretch to say that the Confederate States "had nothing to do with slavery". It was the strong arm of their plantations and they didn't want to see it disappear, nor did Queen Victoria or anybody else buying up their products. There was also the looming question of what to do with over a million black people once they were free. The answer was apparently "live in ghettos".
The Democrats were never for equality,at least not all of their Party. And Lincoln did what he did because it was the best course of action, since he and the South could not agree. I think he was a good politician though. Better than the Southern ones at the time.
I said some reasons... to elaborate, related to the 1860 elections. And Lincoln got shot, after the war, so I agree with you, unfortunately. And I cannot deny the importance of slavery to the Southern economy.
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Gryphs
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posted December 15, 2015 11:37 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 23:42, 15 Dec 2015.
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blizzardboy said:
nor did Queen Victoria or anybody else buying up their products.
This is debatable, as almost immediately after the South tried to use it as a diplomatic barter to get Europe involved Europe found other sources. This hampered both the South's war effort and recovery afterward, to my knowledge.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 15, 2015 11:52 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
The Democrats were never for equality,at least not all of their Party. And Lincoln did what he did because it was the best course of action, since he and the South could not agree. I think he was a good politician though. Better than the Southern ones at the time.
I said some reasons... to elaborate, related to the 1860 elections. And Lincoln got shot, after the war, so I agree with you, unfortunately. And I cannot deny the importance of slavery to the Southern economy.
It was both a question of the economy and a question of fear. They were almost 100% illiterate, maintained many of their tribal traditions, and were largely a huge community of enslaved tribal Africa sitting in the middle of the protestant American south. There were anti-abolition advertisements of black men groping terrified white women. "Culture clash" is an understatement. The plantation system never quite caught on in the northern states because the cash crops, namely cotton for British & New England textiles, flourished in the southern climate.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 16, 2015 12:20 AM |
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Yes, Blizz, and so the South stands apart even now, and from what I've heard, there is no such thing as "Conservative Democrats" anymore...
I would have preferred that to the socialist-leaning North of today, or to the opposite, that fortunately have been halted... Segregationists. LeMay, Wallace, anyone? True Democrats, those guys... not. Whatever happened to the liberty in liberalism ? 
And I think that the GOP today is far more accepting than the other guys, no matter what they claim.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 16, 2015 01:57 AM |
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 17, 2015 02:49 PM |
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Not that I approve now of racism, but every Party I can think of used such propaganda, about hate and doing that by judging a book by the cover...or the shelf, better put.
Now Blizz, back on the War, what chance was there for a stalemate, Confederate win ?
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blizzardboy
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posted December 19, 2015 06:31 AM |
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The biggest danger towards Union victory wasn't in the actual battlefield. It was maintaining loyalty in the northern states (see the film: Gangs of New York for one example), especially as the body count kept piling up. There could have been a stalemate if a compromise was forced to stop the civil war, not because the Union theoretically couldn't have eventually won. It had the industry, the native-born numbers, and was further boosted with desperate immigrants, especially Irish. Still a high price though.
There was also pressure to get the conflict over with because of concern from the outside. France was making an incursion into Mexico at the time of the American Civil War and Napoleon III mused imperial ambitions into a fractured US (although Mexico stopped them so nothing came of it). This also could have rushed the States into opting for a ceasefire.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 19, 2015 06:36 AM |
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So it seems. I find their willingness admirable in a way, and it sure was made out to be far more romantic then it actually was. I mean, it was still WAR. And a civil one too. And one that became known for being about slavery.
And like I said at the start of this reboot, having two countries would not have made things better for anyone.
Now, my next question, could the War have been avoided altogether, and how ?
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markkur
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posted December 19, 2015 10:49 AM |
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Edited by markkur at 10:52, 19 Dec 2015.
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Drakon-Deus said:
Now, my next question, could the War have been avoided altogether, and how ?
I don't think so. You see what was as stake was Fortunes. The very same thing that William Wilberforce had ran up against in England's House of Lord's and Parliament in his long battle to abolish slavery there. If you have not seen the movie Amazing Grace...you should.
The U.S. had the very same problem, in that it is very hard for men that have built their wealth (no matter how they use it) chiefly on the backs of others to give up the money...especially politicians who are all about image, buying votes etc.
i.e. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both knew slavery was wrong but did not free their own slaves until on their own death-beds. That speaks nothing of moral fortitude but of absolute dependence on an evil economic system.
Aristocrats or wannabe Aristocrats (at any cost) were generally the politicians, just like today.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 19, 2015 09:21 PM |
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Your reasoning is sound.
Next question: If the CSA had survived the war, what would the next years look like for the two American countries ?
More Bonnie Blue Flag please 
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markkur
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posted December 20, 2015 12:08 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Next question: If the CSA had survived the war, what would the next years look like for the two American countries ?
Bizarre 
I would guess the North being the economical powerhouse would remain on track towards what we know American became, while the South would scramble about trying to get their upper-crust to contribute to the new nation, since there was little wealth anywhere else. I think this would have been an epic-fail and the South would have remained frozen in time, till the ice was melted one way or another and the nation re-united...without Slavery.
i.e There could have been another war between the North and South but this time the North would have an ally in Britain. That would have been the end of the South.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted December 20, 2015 12:14 PM |
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Good.
Next topic: Southern generals. You know I admire Lee, but many also speak in dear terms of "Stonewall" Jackson. Or JEB Stuart.
What can you tell me? Markkur, blizz, anyone ?
And the Union generals were alcoholics...that's why they won. Especially Grant 
And the less I say of that yankee Sherman's exploits, the better.
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Drakon-Deus
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posted January 19, 2016 03:40 AM |
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Happy Birthday, Gen. Robert E. Lee
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markkur
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posted January 19, 2016 05:06 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 17:09, 19 Jan 2016.
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Quote:
Next topic: Southern generals. You know I admire Lee, but many also speak in dear terms of "Stonewall" Jackson. Or JEB Stuart.
What can you tell me? Markkur, blizz, anyone ?
Missed this.
I think I told you about Nathan Bedford Forrest. Now there was a man's man.<S>
Idk, Longstreet I guess would have to be a top pick for me. There's no doubt he was a good/sound general. It's too bad that Lee was in poor health at Gettysburg because had he listened to Longstreet, they would have swung the right flank and gave up the charge the center high-ground idea that became Pickett's charge.
Btw, Longstreet wrote a book about the war and it is free at Gutenburg.org. He got some flack because he did some criticizing of Lee but as I said; Lee was in bad health and it was likely a heart-attack. I don't think anyone is completely without fault, even Robert E. Lee one of the best generals of all time and when a person is very sick I think even less can be expected.
Arguably, one of the best General's of the war was a Yankee general from Maine, Joshua Chamberlain. The guy was a teacher before the war and managed a difficult position with great skill and courage. His men were at the end of the Union-line at Gettysburg. Chamberlain's story is rather a repeat of Oliver Cromwell's rise to fame; "guy next door becomes brilliant general in the thick of battle".
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Drakon-Deus
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posted January 21, 2016 09:40 AM |
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I hadn't heard of Chamberlain before.
Thanks for your reply Markkur 
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Drakon-Deus
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posted January 02, 2023 05:54 AM |
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1.
We're a band of brothers, native of the soil
Fighting for our liberty, with treasure, blood, and toil.
When first our rights were threatened, and the cry rose near and far
We raised up high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
Chorus:
Hurrah! Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
2.
As long as the Union was faithful to her trust
Like friends and like brethren, kind were we, and just
But now, when Northern treachery attempts our rights to mar
We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
Chorus
3.
First gallant South Carolina came nobly to the stand
Then came Alabama and took her by the hand
Quickly, followed Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida
All raised on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
Chorus
4.
Ye men of valor gather round the banner of the right
Texas and fair Louisiana join us in the fight
Davis, for a President, and Stephens statesmen rare
Now rally round the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
Chorus
5.
Now here's to brave Virginia, the Old Dominion State,
With the young Confederacy at last has sealed her fate,
And spurred by her example, now other states prepare
To hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
(Alternately:
Now here's to Virginia, the Old Dominion State,
Who with the young Confederacy at length has linked her fate.
Impelled by her example, let other states prepare
To hoist high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.)
Chorus
6.
Then cheer, boys, cheer, raise a joyous shout
For North Carolina and Arkansas now have both gone out,
And let another rousing cheer for Tennessee be given,
For the single star of the Bonnie Blue Flag has grown to be eleven.
Chorus
7.
Then here's to our Confederacy, strong we are and brave,
Like patriots of old we'll fight, our heritage to save;
And rather than submit to shame, to die we would prefer,
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
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