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| Thread: Heroes 6 SOD strategy: Playing Dungeon faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted May 06, 2013 02:15 AM |
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Edited by Valeriy at 02:18, 06 May 2013.
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Heroes 6 SOD strategy: Playing Dungeon faction
This thread is for discussing the strategy for playing Dungeon in Heroes 6: Shades of Darkness expansion.
Participants of this thread are invited to contribute to the making of the Dungeon Strategy page on Age of Heroes. Please add your finished strategies to the AOH page under appropriate heading to help create a comprehensive strategy guide. You are welcome to put your HC name next to your strategies as a credit, for example "(by Sandro)" at the end of the paragraph.
Strategy Thread Group: Haven | Inferno | Necropolis | Sanctuary | Stronghold
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 06, 2013 09:02 AM |
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Dungeon...what a town. Great at sieges (2 flyers, 1 teleporter, and 2 ranged..means that only one sits outside the gate doing nothing).
Also, for the first round (or so) makes Counter Strikes and Unlimited Retals absolutely useless (for the enemy). If you are getting hit by retaliations in the first couple rounds..you are playing Dungeon wrong!
Also, they have an ability (first level Tear might) that makes one attack do 0 damage, regardless how mighty the attacker is (Feign Death)
For Might heroes, counterstrike is not so important..as if you are getting hit too often, again .. you are doing something wrong. Toughness is an absolute must though (they are tissue paper). Not sure if resilience is good or not, as you have to be hit three times, and besides the Minotaur..that should not be happening often.
Minotaurs (and upgrade) get a free counterstrike III ability (counterstrike before the attacker's hit).
Almost ALL of their creatures have a no retal ability. Throw in their racial..and there should not be many retaliations against them.
Also, with three large creatures, and the no retal abilities, these guys just scream for tactics.
The down side is .. when attacked (except for Minotaurs) they die REAL easy. As in insanely easy. (Of course dragons are also excluded). Black Dragons are immune to magic..including regen and life drain..which means healing them is a PITA. Shadow dragons are not as strong, but might be worth keeping them with regen and life drain...
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Message received.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 06, 2013 09:25 AM |
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Why counterstrike III is not important? If u get hit it is better for u to strike first if we consider how fragile dungeon troops are.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted May 06, 2013 10:20 AM |
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Can someone explain to me which creature teleports? And why Myt is only playing with 6 creatures?
Edit: never mind, I forgot faceless teleport as I have yet to progress through the second map of the campaign and have yet to play them.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2013 10:29 AM |
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Thoughts on dungeon (from duelist perspective)
First impressions:
- the entire race is low on health and might def (minotaurs being the only exception), very high on dmg and magic def, moderately high on ini
- every creature has some great special ability and this make them powerful
- stats are not the greatest and weekly growth is the smallest i think
- The hero specialty abysses dweller (or sth like that) that give -20%/-20% might/magic dmg to creatures (it cannot be dispelled) that were attacked by Eyes (Shadow Watchers) is probably by far the best and should be always chosen by both might and magic heroes
- Which makes Watchers absolutely crucial to your army because of high magic damage and abilities: abysses dweller and Mind probe (+15% dmg dealt to chosen creature). Which means that during the first 2 turns all my efforts were to kill them off
- Their racial ability is (imho) the weakest. There is also a bug that allows you to see the position of invisible creatures with area effect spells. You can use area dmg (spells, griffins, marksmen) to uncover invisible units. I’d like to change it like that: lvl 2 allow you to cover 1 elite or two cores, lvl 3: one champion, or one elite and one core, or three cores, lvl 4 area but maybe bigger. The gauge fills rather quickly is you use pressed attack.
- Highly effective cores maybe even the best in the game, unfortunately it’s hard to protect them
- Elites seems strong but their low growth means that they will have troubles facing other races’ elites. Faceless Puppeteers have only 70HP. In duels you can choose between 54 minotaurs or 72 kenseis (I might be wrong about the exact numbers) which is insane
- I disagree with claims that Black dragons are weak. Dmg-wise they are like pit lords and cyclops, great/best passives, so-so special ability. They look like an overkill vs magic
- Endgame is great, especially with faceless. You can hide them, and use wait command which will force your opponent to lose his turn unless he has a unit that has higher initiative.
- They should fare better vs magic than vs might
Because of reliance on special abilities and units passives the race is rather hard to play/master.
I’d like to say it again these are only first impressions.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 06, 2013 10:44 AM |
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Elites have ok growth - 4 factions have overall elite growth of 15 elites/week where dungeon has 14 elites/week.
It must be normal considering it has an elite with the best ini among elites and good abilities overall.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2013 12:58 PM |
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Quote:
Elites have ok growth - 4 factions have overall elite growth of 15 elites/week where dungeon has 14 elites/week.
It must be normal considering it has an elite with the best ini among elites and good abilities overall.
Number of elites (data from wiki):
- necro: 18
- sanc: 15
- stronghold: 15
- inferno: 15
- haven: 14
- Dungeon: 14
so you are right about the weekly growth. However, i was under impression that the number of creatures in duels reflect weekly growth and i was writing from duelist perspective.
Anyhow the number of units in duels (might army) feels small:
- dungeon: 64/40/56 = 160
- sanc 54/48/72 = 174
- necro: 40/80/64 = 184
- haven: 56/40/64 = 160
- strong: 36/56/64 = 156
- inferno: 40/64/64 = 168
It feels small b/c they don't have a way to recover them like haven or necro has or duplicate like inferno (gating). And don't look at stronghold they are UP in duels (imo).
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 06, 2013 07:32 PM |
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Quote:
Why counterstrike III is not important? If u get hit it is better for u to strike first if we consider how fragile dungeon troops are.
I meant they make counterstrike I, II, or III of an enemy useless. Since they enemies units should not be counterstriking that much. Getting counterstrike III for dungeon does make them a little more dangerous..though they shouldn't be getting hit that much or that often.
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Message received.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 06, 2013 07:59 PM |
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How will you prevent opponent from hitting you?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 06, 2013 08:46 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 20:48, 06 May 2013.
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Well the first two rounds of combat, the retaliations should be minimal if ANY. Your two ranged of course should be protected by the other creatures, but besides them and the shooters..your creatures ALL have a way of not getting retaliated against. Assassins (and upgrades) start out invisible, no retal. Manticore/Scorpicore have their stinger ability (no retal). Faceless are something like darkness elementals..port in hit, port back no retal. SO your racial gage should be full or near it at the end of the first round. Invis your heavy hitter, it does a full attack does not get retaled against.
So by the time you are hit, your enemy's numbers are reduced. I didn't say getting counter attack for Dungeon is useless, just that since faceless are ALWAYS no retal, and every one of the creatures that mix it up in the first couple of rounds are no retal, that you reduce their numbers to reduce their damage. Toughness is a little bit more important then counterstrike. Now Counterstrike III is good, but the other two..not so much. So by all means get Counterstrike, but the object is to get the enemies number low so that it is not that important.
When creeping the only creatures that hit my guys AT ALL were ranged or magic using creatures. Melee creatures rarely laid a hand on me.
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Message received.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 06, 2013 08:50 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 06:47, 07 May 2013.
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Ok you don`t get retaliation but when opponent hits you (in a bigger battle their numbers won`t be reduced that much) counterstrike III plays even bigger role now because you are so fragile.
EDIT: Dungeon vs griffins
inspirations from full map game
Dungeon is the only faction that can beat those creatures without regeneration/life drain. Reinforcement won`t help because their damage output is bigger than that and you have no way to espace their dive with other factions
vs 20 griffins day 3
first turn shoot one stack that still hasn`t dived and then check where they have dived.
If all dived on 1 stack then cast racial on that stack e.g. -stalkers.
If they dived on 2 stacks reinforce the stack that has the fewest number of griffins that dive on it and cast the racial on the other.
Next turns continue to shoot them and bear in mind that 2 griffins won`t kill a single asssasin. This battle was done with hero attack only.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 03:53 AM |
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I have finally(and regretfully) finished Dungeon campaign and it was just wondeful experience overall I then started to play duels and such, have a winning streak so far with my Shadow Slayer. So NamelessOrder we can play again sometimes!
There is my 2cents:
To me, for a Might Hero, most valuable troops are Charkhram Dancers and Manticores. I tend to get Dancers as early as possible, and then use tactics to put them in front of other troops, so that her Whirling Death hits enemy only. Two things to consider: first, their initiative is low, so they benefit from Haste a lot. Second, may be its worth it to cast mass slow on the enemy instead so they dont reach them, Dancers do have a melee penalty.
Manticores, I love them. Yes, they are easy to kill, and AI tends to focus on them(not so much with human players), but if you wait with them, then at the end of a turn use their sting ability and come back to their position on the start of next turn. It works wonders. If necessary, you can fight with them upfront to lower might defense. Just dont let them to get hit by retaliation, they are fragile.
Minotaurs are good as well, but their movement is too slow and their active ability should hit more then one stack in my opinion.
I played as a Trickster(tears might) more then Blood, but I find blood better. Trickster abilities are somewhat situational, and I like Blood passive 'Find Weakness' more then Feign Death.
Always get Resilience(and its blood alternative), Cleave, Parry, Toughness(!), and possibly counterstrike. Press Attack and Charge are given. Good idea to get intimidation as well and just fly those dragons with their terrifying presence into the fray
In a duel I tend to avoid retal as the first priority, have at least one invis stack at all times, and use those assassins/dancers
Magic is a bit trickier, Blood is again better choice for me, due to its very powerful shadow implosion(cast it after mass agony), and ultimate is good to get double hit with your dragons/faceless.
Tears is very situational once again, Fog Veil is very powerful but that ultimate...just gets killed far too easily. When playing tears, always get Ice Armor/Stoneskin(or both) and mass weakness(if against Haven, watch for that Purity).
Magic Dungeon relies on Faceless and Shadow Lurkers for damage(and on Dragons breath as a long term damage), so keep them protected. (esp Shadow Lurkers, they die as flies).
Things to not do:
1. Dont try to puppeteer any stack that has DoT such as Dragon breath or agony
2. Dont try that on enemy stacks adjacent to your Dragons as well
Whoever you play, don't waste points on magic defense, your creatures got plenty of it anyway
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eyezonhim
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 07, 2013 10:27 AM |
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Trickster(tears might) with mass weakness and shadow lurker skill is a good combo (-40% damage, yes please). I find blood might too squashy, but the reduce armor passive and mark skill are great. Still, tear might covers up dungeon's biggest weakness--- low health and weak defense.
I've played a few duels and had good results with the tears might with shadow lurker skill.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 11:43 AM |
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I agree with eyezonhim that might tears with magic army and abysses dweller ability is the best combination vs might. I also get +6 magic power from dark school and get weakness and add ice armor,
Anyway i played quite a few duels against dungeon and i don't remember loosing (as might haven). Actually i don't remember any close combat so you might get the idea...
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 12:19 PM |
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I don't know, these Eyes are too fragily tobuild your whole strategy around. Haven Might is very strong, but as a Magic player(normally) I don't play it often. I have played quite a few Dungeon matches lately vs Stronghold, Inferno, Sanctuary and Haven and won most of them. Dungeon is becoming my favourite..
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 07, 2013 12:26 PM |
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might dmg shooters > shadow watchers > magic dmg shooters
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 02:21 PM |
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We tried dungeon again
With Hermes we tried again the power of dungeon but frankly i didn't notice a difference (sry for disconnecting but the game crashed again).
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Ice armor vs stone skin
But also argued about which spell gives more def: ice armor vs stone skin.
So i created a hero (stronghold tears might) with only 3 abilities: mass stone skin mass ice armor and tactics. I played duel on hot seats, having only 1 stack of panther warriors:
All numbers stack of Panther Warriors vs Stack of Panther Warriors:
1. no spells: shown dmg 890-1113
2. stone skin (mass - reduces dmg by 20%): shown dmg 709-886
3. Ice armor mass (+13 might defense): shown dmg 709-886,
exactly the same
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low number of minotaurs
I think we also agree that we don't understand why minotaurs growth is only 4. This might be an exaggeration but 4 Minotaurs are imo the worst weekly stack of any elites in the game. The only saving grace is that they are cheap but their price only proves (=reflecs) their "usefulness".
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 07, 2013 02:52 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 16:20, 07 May 2013.
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Maybe haven owns dungeon. Try other factions.
low number of minotaurs
Imperial griffins, Yuki-onna and Centaur Marauder have that growth too. When all other units are fragile it is normal that Minotaur Guard has the smallest growth rate -4. But how small is it?
If final fight is week 5 and upgrade is built week 3 cnsidering we have 2 native towns then if their growth was 5 we would get 4 more minotaur guards. When elites in your army are arround 50 I think 4 is not that much. That is if we don`t take into consideration that external elite gives +2 minos and +1 to all others.
One castle and one external elite = 6 growth for all elites.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 04:43 PM |
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I dare someone finally defeat NamelessOrder with Dungeon..I will do so one day
I have checked and rechecked, and yes Stone Skin gives MORE defense then Ice Armor.
56 Centaurs Marauders vs 117 Ghouls
With Ice Armor dmg 253-325
With Stoneskin dmg - 202-260
I can do a video if you wish.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 07, 2013 05:18 PM |
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I have just defeated a Sanctuary might that I had trouble with, similar story - Kirins can insta kill pretty much any core stack, and immune to movement reduction + that trail of clouds. Duel lasted more then an hour.
I turtled heavily - faceless in one corner, next to them Watchers, and in front - Minotaurs and Dragons. Next to Watchers invisible Shades. Scorpicores on the opposite corner next to Ch. Dancers. Mass Agony + Shadow Implosion, Mass Haste, and Dark Transfer. Still had about third of the army left in the end.
Still cant figure out how to play Magic tears effecively...That Shadow thing appears next to your creature stack...Which makes it of less use..
Racial seems underpowered, compared to Havens resurrection on Celestials/Sun Crusaders..
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