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artu
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posted February 23, 2020 10:41 AM |
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Wall Street and the FBI is left leaning? You must have a pretty broad and absurd definition of the term.
The problem about Trump is beyond left and right, when you look at his story as an estates person or his tweets and how he is like the definition of post-truth, lying at a level where he doesnt even care if he gets caught, or his stance on global warming etc, all portray a person who is willing to do and say anything for a short term win, no matter how destructive the outcome in the long term. Almost all politicians are greedy, pragmatic people, nature of the beast, but that level of reckless, almost sociopathic greed is a very dangerous thing in a politician, espcially if we’re talking about the position of leading the most powerful country in the world.
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Salamandre
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posted February 23, 2020 10:54 AM |
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yeah, blah blah, all politicians do that and this. I wonder if same clueless people here and there will reconsider their analyses when Trump will wipe out, once again, the democrat candidate in next elections and why this happens. Probably not.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 23, 2020 11:15 AM |
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It is not an uncommon thing for the type of personality I am talking about to succeed in power games, it is a known fact that anti-social personality disorder is more common among power positions, CEO’s, presidents etc. So yes, if the historical context is right, you can have such people wiping out the competition since they can fit in any role to win and most people will be naive and emotional enough to follow through. All he has to do is push a few sensitive buttons (in your case, immigration) and the rest will follow. Doesnt change a thing I say about why he cant be trusted in the least.
And once again, you shouldnt be talking about clueless people if you call the Wall Street leftist. 
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Salamandre
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posted February 23, 2020 07:27 PM |
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Stock markets are 150% liberal, there is nothing more liberal than those, they ignore identities, borders, languages and such. Then they also follow an common pattern nowadays, congratulating each other on left leaning actions, you may want to read THIS
Your analysis is a copy/paste of the one you had in 2016, then all next were same. Wasn't Einstein who called foolish when you perform same action but expect different results?
Read Omega's last comment which describes the reality you want to ignore, as time passed by since 2016. Also, is puzzling me why you consider leaders being greedy, hungry for power, or people voting based on emotions, as bad things, while these are the core of how it works.
I don't want a commander in chief kneeling before others, I want him to snatch the best markets and prices, to be strong and aggressive when it is required, to use the appropriate language and terms when it needs to asses his superiority, who isn't afraid of playing risky if the outcome may worth it. To have great charisma and leadership, to be respected but also feared. Politics isn't kindergarten, but a though world. There are not enough resources for everyone.
Very deceptive also that in your analysis there is not a single word about the lack of serious and realistic proposals on the democrats side, because this is where the bets are off. If Trump is reelected in November is because two things : democrat strategy is "orange man bad" and nothing else - like yours, then his economic results. Which appear to be exceptional - some nevertrumpers will say is Obama post-result, however we all know that if economy was catastrophic or stagnating, that would instantly be Trump's fault, right? ^^
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JollyJoker
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posted February 23, 2020 08:15 PM |
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So "liberal" is now "leftist"?
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 23, 2020 08:36 PM |
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Sal, I’m saying that the reactions against Trump are beyond divisions between left and right and you reply by saying why do you ignore the left side? I dont remember what I wrote back in 2016 but it’s natural if it’s consistent because that’s what I (and many many other people) see. There are Americans who divorce their spouses because they voted Trump, he is not a regular politician.
Now, I know that the terms left and right are quite flexible depending on the context and country but there are still some core elements to them if they are ever going to mean something. Calling Wall Street leftist is kind of like calling the Catholic Church satanist. Liberal in that sense is not leftist, there is neoliberal economy politics (right wing) and then there is liberal politics in terms of freedom of speech, minority rights etc (left wing). If there is anything such as “the establishment,” then Wall Street is it, and maintaining status quo is not leftism by any means.
Lastly, I havent said greed or power hunger is good or bad. I just said it is expected at a certain level in politics, I even called it the nature of the beast. But then you have types that are overwhelmingly Machiavellian, even by standards of the political arena. That is another story. You are so conditioned to defend Trump and so sure that any objection against him is brainwashed propaganda, you dont even listen to what is being said.
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Blizzardboy
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posted February 23, 2020 09:07 PM |
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When you say 'establishment' I'm assuming you're talking about establishment Republicans and Democrats, which changes based on whoever is at the top of the ticket. Trump was an outsider before 2016, but now he isn't and he is backed up by almost 100% of his party.
As far as wider society: entertainment, tech, and academia lean left. Private enterprise leans right. This has been true since forever. The media isn't really as leftist as is often claimed. Print media leans left but there are radio programs and sites like Breitbart that get massive amounts of traffic. Where there is a demand there is going to be a supply.
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted February 23, 2020 09:10 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 22:30, 23 Feb 2020.
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Bernie came up
Have any other of the canidates been arrested? Here he was activist for human rights.
Should this be in an election thread or just mesh it all in? Dont worry im not blabbering like i did in 2016
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Salamandre
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posted February 23, 2020 10:49 PM |
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US ambassador in Germany about Trump's being effective or Not
He doesn't look very emotional driven to me, quite the opposite.
artu said:
You are so conditioned to defend Trump and so sure that any objection against him is brainwashed propaganda, you dont even listen to what is being said.
Its not me who is conditioned, you are. Read again our exchange, you are the one who pushes adjectives describing him as "sociopath", "reckless", "liar", please quote me where I actually defend Trump?
You can't even imagine for one second that he might take the right decisions, by lowering taxes, initiating a trade war, quitting the Paris climate where USA was losing insane money, or actually sitting down with the Korean fool, which nobody was capable before and etc etc. Maybe he is right?
What I do is I look from my french perspective - because here is where it concerns me, and try to understand why in the world people as Macron who barely gets 0,1% growth/year, a 10% unemployment rate, a 26% approval rate, the country burning upside down, deadly terrorist attacks now on a weekly base, still spends his time to make fun of Trump when on paper, the later is basically humiliating him in any area. Maybe we should learn from instead of stupidly smearing?
Then I look at what you people write, and feel same. You bicker about image then ignore results. This is not defending Trump but questioning a specific dishonest mindset which is dividing the world.
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artu
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posted February 24, 2020 01:30 AM |
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You have to lose some money applying precautions on global warming. That is the point. It is reckless to prefer short-term political gain to long-term solutions and it is not an issue of “my nation first” because climates dont have national borders. It is lying to call global warming “a Chinese hoax” and it is not your typical politician lie, even if you back out from an international deal, doing it by discrediting the scientific fact that global warming is very real is harmful on a very serious scale. The president of the U.S.A. indicating such a thing only to pickpocket some local votes is indeed sociopathic. And watch the Netflix documentary on him regarding my comment about his mental state. That is not an emotional one either and naturally much less biased than a diplomat whose career depends on what he says.
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Blizzardboy
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posted February 24, 2020 04:58 AM |
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Salamandre said:
US ambassador in Germany about Trump's being effective or Not
He doesn't look very emotional driven to me, quite the opposite.
artu said:
You are so conditioned to defend Trump and so sure that any objection against him is brainwashed propaganda, you dont even listen to what is being said.
Its not me who is conditioned, you are. Read again our exchange, you are the one who pushes adjectives describing him as "sociopath", "reckless", "liar", please quote me where I actually defend Trump?
You can't even imagine for one second that he might take the right decisions, by lowering taxes, initiating a trade war, quitting the Paris climate where USA was losing insane money, or actually sitting down with the Korean fool, which nobody was capable before and etc etc. Maybe he is right?
What I do is I look from my french perspective - because here is where it concerns me, and try to understand why in the world people as Macron who barely gets 0,1% growth/year, a 10% unemployment rate, a 26% approval rate, the country burning upside down, deadly terrorist attacks now on a weekly base, still spends his time to make fun of Trump when on paper, the later is basically humiliating him in any area. Maybe we should learn from instead of stupidly smearing?
Then I look at what you people write, and feel same. You bicker about image then ignore results. This is not defending Trump but questioning a specific dishonest mindset which is dividing the world.
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Blizzardboy
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posted February 24, 2020 05:05 AM |
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@Sal
Trump actually enjoys pretty good popularity in India and in China (yes, the country he has been in a trade war with), and that alone is like 1/3rd of the world population. The fact is: Trump and Trumpian leaders are enjoying a surge of popularity, so you can let off with the idea that he's an underdog. He isn't.
As far as Germany is concerned and what the ambassador was talking about: it has been the case since the late 40s with Truman that Germany and West Germany have tried to passive-aggressively milk as much welfare and other hidden benefits from the USA as possible. It isn't an Obama vs Trump polemic: that situation is much, much older.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 24, 2020 08:03 AM |
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Grenell is probably the most loyal Trump follower you will find anywhere. Trump has made him ambassador and just promoted him to the highest intelligence(!) official in the US. No one would expect anything else than highest praise for his master, true or not.
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Salamandre
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posted February 24, 2020 11:06 AM |
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artu said:
You have to lose some money applying precautions on global warming.
Last time I read Trump speaking about climate he didn't say it was a hoax but real, and provoked by human activity. Hmm.
Secondly, this is not about losing money, but wasting money, there IS a difference. As BB noticed, there was a long time pattern where everyone just thinks US is the cow to milk, with the Paris climate doing nothing else than that. Of course, I would prefer US remains in, but I also can imagine Americans having enough from this continuous milking.
I am also full of Greta BS, because it just underlines same hateful narrative : western countries must do all the effort, but not a word about demographics in Africa (explosive), mass scale immigration (more pollution), China and India responsibility and such. Put all terms on the table, otherwise it looks as agenda to me.
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artu
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posted February 24, 2020 11:21 AM |
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Well, he can say this when it fits and that when it doesn’t, which is part of his “post-truth” personality I speak about: Click
About China and India, they don’t have the influence U.S. does, I am critical of their approach also but let’s be frank, their political scene is nowhere near as globally on spot as U.S. Can you name me 5 Chinese politicians without using Google? So the criticism goes directly to the country, not specific political figures.
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Blizzardboy
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posted February 24, 2020 01:29 PM |
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It would be stupid for the Paris Accord to apply equally to every country because the developing world provides cheap consumer goods to the USA (and Europe) and their clean energy programs are younger.
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fred79
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posted February 24, 2020 06:36 PM |
- penalty applied by Corribus on 01 Mar 2020. |
Edited by Corribus at 22:59, 01 Mar 2020.
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Post removed by the moderator.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 24, 2020 07:21 PM |
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I just wanted to post something along the lines of, "post"truth" being rather belittling something that is more akin to 1984's ministry of truth-like history rewriting ("Trump believes that climate change is no hoax; Trump has ALWAYS believed that climate change is no hoax"), but in light of what's going on here it seems a rather, well, meaningless post in a doomed thread.
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artu
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posted February 24, 2020 07:28 PM |
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fred79
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posted February 24, 2020 07:35 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 19:36, 24 Feb 2020.
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Trump is still anti-environment; he always has been. He's switching gears on climate change for the same reason anti-super PAC dems started using super PACS; trying to gain footing in the elections. Politicians will lie or do anything to get/stay in power. If anyone is surprised by this, then i recommend getting better than an elementary school education.
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