I think, that it's much worse than that, including change of word meaning/lying with naming (Ministry of Truth), as well as "history changing" (Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia).
It's actively reality-changing, and "post-truth" just is too tame for my liking. I mean "post-X" is used as a description for music styles and hasn't any negative connotation, that's probably turning me off here.
Keep in mind that its imposibble to know what each candidate really wants! They are masking his intentions because Kennedy case... If they really want do something for people not for deep state they must play donkey role... To save their life. Its possible that Trump are plaing idiot role so he is still alive. It is something named q annon? Truth or false? But interesting.
Its great bisantinism. Each empire is similiar to Constantinople.
artu said:Well, he can say this when it fits and that when it doesn’t
No, they take a tweet from years ago when he was not even running, where Trump is clearly trolling - as he is doing half of the time, you like it or not, then they try to make it sound as serious and official. Misleading title, his official statement is the one I linked to.
As for China thing, he repeated countless times it was a joke - for the people not enough smart to get it, one must be really desperate to beat again and again that dead horse. Trump is before anything a showman, a one liners charismatic guy, watch his rallies to understand. He has the innate talent to make people laugh and his base is fine with this aspect of his, they love it.
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“History changing” only covers incidents of the past, where as a lie can be about any recent thing. The post prefix, as you well know, means after and post-truth indicates that unlike before, truth doesnt even matter anymore. Politicians used to be real careful not to get caught in the act of lying in the old times, Bill Clinton almost lost his job not because of the Monica Lewinski affair but because he lied about it in his testimony. But nowadays they just dont seem to care anymore. It is as if they are expected to lie, just like a rock star is expected to use drugs. I think the term coined for a reason the way it did and it fits.
@Sal
Look at the timing of when he said it was a joke, look at his other tweets. You claim you dont defend Trump but looking at your recent posts you almost make him sound like this unconventional genius who plays the crowd like a mandolin with one hand and fixes every international issue with the other while everyone else is stuck. How is this not defending him? He’s not some anti-hero maestro of politics, he can actually think global warming is a lie because the weather gets cold!
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
Truth doesn't matter anymore, is one thing. Telling an altermative story is something entirely different. It's not POST-truth, it's ALTERNATIVE truth.
You see that? I mean, you said something in the past - say, all those clima change guys are wearing a tin-foil hat. Now, you say, I'm all for doing something against clima change. Now someone says, you said the above thing not so long ago.
A lie would be, no I didn't. Or, no it was a joke.
Further goes to say, I've always been warning against clima change, I did that already when no one else did! That's MORE than post-truth.
Or look at Sal's post - from what he says you'd think trolls were really great guys, funny, clever and all that, and trolling others would be something great, a new presidential must-have, and not something that gets you banned on every moderated forum. Something really positive. You'd think, trolling had just become another meaning.
yeah, sorry for interacting here, for every "defending him" comment I get 2 trump deranged syndrome guys coming at me, maybe I should let you both continue your perfect agreements and dispute again the place for the most boring exchange like in that thread of yours.
artu said:he can actually think global warming is a lie because the weather gets cold!
seriously? Man, you have a problem then.
Anyway, looks like both of you judge Trump on his tweets, fair enough. Let's remember, however, that he also has a job, US president, and there is some activity on that side too. Take time and inform yourself so next time we discuss some material.
JollyJoker said: and not something that gets you banned on every moderated forum. Something really positive. You'd think, trolling had just become another meaning.
Wrong, to give an example, Blizzard boy has an history of good quality trolling and spaming and he is one of the most appreciated posters because of that in particular. No forum bans you when you are funny. But as you lack that quality entirely, maybe is just jealousy? We'll never know.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted February 25, 2020 01:02 AM
@JJ
But the point was, there is no attempt at an alternative truth, people really don’t care about ‘the truth” anymore. Think of the famous Reichstag Fire, that is an attempt to fake truth, there is a plan, there is an actual conspiracy based on a normative assumption that masses care if it is true or not. So, they try to make it believable. Post-truth on the other hand, is like WWE, people know it is not true anyway, they just support the wrestler they already want to, because they want to. It’s like there is so much fake news and cherry-picking to deal with, the truth will take too much time to discover anyway. It is a new phenomenon, Orwell was writing about a totalitarian state in which “the truth” of the authority was enforced. In this case nothing is enforced, it’s given up.
@Sal
Sorry, I was under the impression I was disagreeing with both you and JJ on different matters. Now that you’ve informed me we are rallying up against you as a team, I’ll act accordingly. I don’t know which thread of mine you refer to, it’s been like years since I created a thread in this place. But it must be boring anyway since we don’t have the sense of humour to get that “Ice storm rolls from Texas to Tennessee - I'm in Los Angeles and it's freezing. Global warming is a total, and very expensive, hoax!” is a joke.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
@ artu
Are you under the impression that Sal doesn't care about truth anymore? Isn't he convinced he has it?
There is an agenda behind that "post-truth" - a plan, if you want to. And "post-truth" is a description of a phenomenon that becomes immediately clear, if you imagine truth as the reputation of a witness at court, which the other side often tries to undermine. Which is what's happening. If truth may become a witness against you, undermining it is a good tactic, if there are ways to do it, and there are ways. There were always ways (remember the famous, "the winner writes the story").
And maybe the biggest lie is, that no one cares about the truth anymore.
Social media have immensely accelerated the "rumour-mongering" (which isn't a new word). Rumours are "post-truth" stories - a lot of people love this stuff, and it's not new. Today it's fairly easy - some celebrity posts a short cryptic message on twitter (which can be a simple like or dislike) and that starts the rumour-mill, until truth and fiction is a mess. That's post-truth, and, yes, noone is really interested in the truth, the trolling and the ensuing mess is way too much fun.
Social media post-truth is probably just people living out their mean sides, dissing people they don't like for the heck of it.
However, we are talking about a certain part of the rich and powerful here. Who clearly HAVE an agenda. Post-truth? When a media outlet is critisizing an aspect of the current US administration they are immediately called fake news, liars and whatnot. They are not ignored. It's a battle and "truth" is attacked. Because there STILL ARE those who are interested in the truth.
In the end, it's just a refined tactic, but the purpose and the agenda is the same as before. People want to believe something, and they want to think that what they believe is true and right.
@ Sal You are fantasizing
There is no reality in which the president of the united states being a troll is good news. Thinking so is plain delusional.
JJ, you take a definition of trolling which clearly does not apply to the examples we were talking. In this case, trolls will often make ridiculous statements about the subject at hand, again with the expectation that they will get an emotional response out of people. They won’t necessarily believe the outrageous claims they make, but their goal is to convince you that they do believe it.
The thing is, Trump's base know he is trolling to drive leftist media hysteric about, then they have a good laugh because it works so well. Is it presidential in your view, surely not. Personally I just don't care. I don't have twitter, I don't follow Donald Trump on twitter, the only way I see his tweets is when reading the press, which will show them every day but never inform me/us about his First Step then Second act laws, which are what it matters. When the race for sensational and click baits deliberately choose to ignore long time societal problems being improved.
Also, your next door people are tired of political correctness and continuous infringe on the freedom of expression driven by dominant medias and that's why they like him. He punches back and this is a great satisfaction source.
Now, before you go in other caricature of what I'm saying, listen to this : if Trump was a bad president, with bad choices, hesitating and flabby, no trolling or punching of any level would have saved him. Its you who look under the worthless angle.
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Biden is polling very poorly in South Carolina, which was suppose to be one of his strongest states: southern demographic with lots of working class or middle class black voters. Looks like he's doomed.
We have 9 months until November, and the coronavirus is likely to be trolling on a mass scale within a few months. It will be interesting to see how Trump's response impacts him in the poll. Natural disasters can sway public opinion of presidents a lot (in spite of the fact that they don't necessarily have much control over it, then again the same is largely true of the economy). Obama's favorability plummeted during the BP oil spill, and Bush plummeted after Hurricane Katrina.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
He's a manchild. Trolling isn't a tactic he uses; it's a part of who he is and he was like that for many years before becoming president. He was at the center of the birther movement that was obsessed with Obama supposedly being Kenyan. Nobody talks about that now because it's an embarrassment.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
And democrats are in the center of the movement claiming for 3 years that Trump is a russian agent. I would like we talk more about that and bring them to justice.
Seriously, what is more destructive, one asking for a birth certificate or one stating the president is a foreign agent. Like politics wasn't about producing dirt on opponents.
Fine, talk about it. Name the guilty democrats and bring proof - but keep in mind that the FBI has investigated Trump; there WAS reason to do that. So everything brought up at the time of the investigation and based on the results of it obviously doesn't count.
Salamandre said:The thing is, Trump's base know he is trolling to drive leftist media hysteric about, then they have a good laugh because it works so well.
Yeah! And Climate Change is a hoax!
Please, believing Trump trolls the media to keep them occupied while he governs the country with secret wisdom is complete wishy-washy.
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JollyJoker said:FBI has investigated Trump; there WAS reason to do that.
Yeah, they were trying to make it look like Trump was corrupt for attempting to investigate ACTUAL corruption involving the Biden's.
Also, this is the same fbi that colluded with Hillary for her treasonous and unlawful acts; stood by while(and almost certainly colluded with the rich child rapists that were tied up with) Epstein got suicided to stop him from succumbing to a plea deal where he would produce evidence to a wide array of those aforementioned rich child rapists; burned men, women, and children alive at Waco; murdered almost a whole family of civilians at Ruby Ridge... the list goes on and on.
You thinking that the fbi, or any other government-run organization, for that matter, is somehow virtuous and wholesome, is utterly delusional. That's like being "investigated" by a drug cartel, ffs. They're just as benevolent and geared towards civil service.
But my guess is, this will all fall on deaf ears. I don't really care. Just putting my 2 cents in.
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
posted February 24, 2020 07:56 PM
