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Blizzardboy
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posted March 19, 2017 03:37 AM |
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@JJ
Ok. I browsed through some old pages. This is somewhat off topic and more out of curiosity:
where do you get the idea that terrorism in France is related to its colonial past? Because most of the problems seem to be from 1st generation, disturbed and/or radicalized men in their late 20s/30s, and you're the only person I've ever seen that tried to connect it to colonialism. In Israel you hear about that connection frequently, and the link is pretry obvious, but I've never seen it applied to France before. And what about France would make it different from Italy and Libya? I've read that it's about problems that started mostly in the 1990s.
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JollyJoker
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posted March 19, 2017 08:13 AM |
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1) Lots of terrorist attacks in France.
If you go throgh the list, a sizable part of those before "now" will feature ex-French colonies, like Lebanon, Syria, Algeria, Senegal and so on. However, France has had a very violent colonial past:
Look at the part about decolonization.
However - France also wasn't prepared to just say au revoir.
If you read this about imigration to France, you'll read that Quote:
In the wake of the First World War, in which France suffered six million casualties, significant numbers of workers from French colonies came. By 1930, the Paris region alone had a North African Muslim population of 70,000.
After WW 2 France again needed labor and lots of immigrants came, especially from Algeria. However, the real problems started in the 70s:
Quote:
During the 1970s, France simultaneously faced economic crisis and allowed immigrants (mostly from the Muslim World) to permanently settle in France with their families and to acquire French citizenship. It resulted in hundreds of thousands of Muslims, especially to the larger cities, living in subsidized public housing and suffering from very high unemployment rates.
Alongside this, France renounced its policy of assimilation, instead pursuing a policy of integration. Some believe it has led to increasing tension and civil unrest between local population and radicalized newcomers, such as the 2005 French riots.
I add, that most of these immigrants came from ex-French colonies, of course, with the added benefits of those knowing the language.
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Galaad
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posted March 19, 2017 10:26 AM |
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It's not colonialism, it's the last ten years of its AWFUL foreign politics that makes France a target for terrorism.
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JollyJoker
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posted March 19, 2017 10:59 AM |
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No.
If you say something like that you are expected to back that up.
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Galaad
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Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 19, 2017 11:29 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 11:30, 19 Mar 2017.
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What part do you need me to back up? France has been bombing the Middle-East under Sarkozy and Hollande. Colonialism is not irrelevant but it's not the main factor, it's not like we were the big baddies who came out from nowhere for no reason at that time should I remind you.
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JollyJoker
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posted March 19, 2017 12:57 PM |
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"The last 10 years" are only a small part in the history of terror attacks, and while the November Paris attacks ARE an ISIS answer to France actively fighting them (which isn't "awful politics"), there are a lot more.
So you need to bak up the whole statement of yours with facts.
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Galaad
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posted March 19, 2017 01:42 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
and while the November Paris attacks ARE an ISIS answer to France actively fighting them (which isn't "awful politics"),
France has been bombing civilians and directly selling weapons to the so-called "moderated" rebels which turned out to be extremists. Anyway this isn't France thread and am not willing to debate this here (or maybe not even, no time nor will to give you a huge post but you can do your research).
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frostysh
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WHY?
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posted March 19, 2017 04:44 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 12:12, 30 May 2017.
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1) Using the full-scale war methods to fight terrs. is an insanity
for an example, - single bomber dropped few bombs on the very rural village, killed few villagers and wounded ~dozen. The villagers there have a very poor idea about geopolitics, about Sarkozy and stuff, they don't look at the new game devices, they don't wear a fashion cloth etc.. And most of them will have no idea why they has been bombed. The almost anything the villagers have, is made by their own hands, and a lot of work invented into - if you will destroy the house of the villager, his/her farm - this villager along with his/her family become a beggars... Any damage to their houses and lands, villagers accept with a lot of hate. Especially this is true for the young one, after watching how the peoples that they know dying and suffering - they will have the hate to anyone who have done for the entire life - a perfect ground for the mass-controlling ideologies that using terrs. But it is not the main problem, the main problem is the peoples who ordering to uses such full-scale war methods is actually truly aware of the effects invoked.
2) Yes, The Colonial past, Cold War is the crucial factors.
The government of the (Republic France) RF in the very difficult situation. they mus resolve the issues that lefts from the former "guys", which have made a lot of mistakes (perhaps begins from the Napoleon), the immigrants creating disturbance and destabilizing the situation in the country in general coz' RF have not enough resources to support normal situation, in addition they play a great role in the growing of destabilizing communist/nationalist movements, which is causing even more "bleeding" in RF. RF government have a few solutions for that, but I don't know what a solution they will choose. In the any case, they must act a VERY carefully to avoid any serious resonances, growing of the "radical" ideas in the society, etc, etc - In case of Kingdom of Great Britain (KoGB) it may be ok, their society is a pretty stable and have a pretty good armor against any disturbance, it has been confirmed trough history, but in the case of RF we have some problems... That because the government of RF must avoid a drastically changes the "direction of the train" and count a many factors especially some "growing powers". I hope the RF will be fine.
Eric Hoffer(1976AD)-Communism, Albert Einstein(1929AD)-Nationalism, Steven Weinberg(1999AD)-Religion
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Blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2017 01:55 AM |
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Bump.
Trump might pull the States away from the Paris Accord.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 28, 2017 09:53 AM |
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US might find themselves quite isolated in the not-so-far future.
Ah, wait, I forgot Russia.
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artu
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posted May 28, 2017 11:51 AM |
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I don't see that happening as long as the world trade operates with U.S. currency.
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Blizzardboy
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posted May 29, 2017 06:53 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
US might find themselves quite isolated in the not-so-far future.
Ah, wait, I forgot Russia.
@jj:
This isn't feasible.
Berlin will make statements because of your September elections but all the mainstream powers know they have to tolerate doing business with Trump or they will harm themselves badly. Trump has already been saying for months he wants to pull out of the Accord so recent news is no surprise. But, this would not be the first thing he folded on. Just the fact that he hasn't made a decision yet is in of itself promising since his original plan was simply "pull out".
Your original theory a few months back was that the administration would attempt some Hollywood-esque attack on the federal courts, and that never happened (obviously because it was completely silly). Trump is able to be domesticated if he is pressured sufficiently.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 29, 2017 08:53 PM |
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Trump and his administration isn't defensible in any way - they just smash china, and a lot of it. They also screw your country.
You do not behave like that on the world stage; bad mannered, bullyish, uninformed. Stupid. He and his administration are as near as a desaster as it can get without becoming violent, and the only reason no one told to go and frakk himself is the fact that he can unleash a lot of destructive power - not that he would need much in the way of an excuse.
He's been compared to with Nixon, but clearly that's unfair to good old Dicky, who was, if nothing else, at least a politician, whatever good and bad that includes. This guy?
A disgrace.
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Zenofex
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posted May 29, 2017 09:24 PM |
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Quote:
You do not behave like that on the world stage; bad mannered, bullyish, uninformed.
For a moment I thought you are describing Bush Jr.'s presidency. Or to somewhat lesser degree (but not by much) any US presidency after the collapse of the USSR while Russia was still submissive and China was not that active on international level.
One very, VERY good thing that may come out of this clown's administration of the international affairs is getting the EU countries out of NATO, one step at a time, and forming a continental defensive alliance instead of organizing coups in or outright attacking every inconvenient second-world country that can't properly defend itself and then crying "mommaaaa, someone had shat in my pants?!".
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JollyJoker
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posted May 30, 2017 09:17 AM |
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Well. I agree with you. The one unfortunate thing with this is, that it will require Germany to really gear up our military, and you know how that went the last time and the time before that, and what's worse, everyone else knows as well, so this scenario basically needs Germany which doubtlessly will put a big share of the needed resources into this, to do everything with the explicit mandate of the other EU states and under supervision of France or something like that.
In other words, for the EU to accelerate their military output, the EU will have to find a way to utilize the German industrial power for it, without antagonizing the rest of the world.
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frostysh
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posted May 30, 2017 12:54 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 13:08, 01 Jun 2017.
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I am disagree with both of you, mr Zenofex, and mr JollyJoker (to be more preciously, I think the nonsense above is posted).
1) It is not so simple. You speaking at level of the grandmas on chairs. With "King Bush" etc.
2) I think the KoGB is know what they are doing in terms of the future of the EU. But imho, it is a little bit egocentric.
3) Yeah, the France Republic, Republic of Poland, and some states from South Europe is a problem points, I can even say, they are in the "first ring"  . But Uncle Sam exist too, so until US have some power there, I think there is little to fear, just need to avoid a radical moves, and inner disturbance factors such different radical movements.
4) CPR is long time ago have obtain a geopol. level of power, and using it without any hesitations, Territorial disputes in the South China Sea, it is just for an example.
if you not saw the results of such things in the new-papers, it is not means its doesn't exist. IMHO.
CPR increasing its presence in Africa, China–Ethiopia relations, which is promising a lot of "misunderstandings" in future.
5) SU (Russian Federation) "was still submissive", whahahhaha, yeah they cannot colonize the Mars, for now, like their "colleagues" from Uncle Sam, but the hell "show must go on"  . Russia Resumes Patrols by Nuclear Bombers, AUG. 18, 2007.
IMHO guys, you have a few lacks of understanding. You trying to operate same things for a different level of power, like for a different weight category in boxing. You tryin' to apply same thing, for an example to the Republic of Finland, and to the SU. First one just the another state on the planet Earth, of course with the all respect, and the second one is one of the superpowers which can start a war that can wipe out ~90% of Earth human population with a very short time... The government of RoF, for an example, is thinking "locally", they usually making decisions that have influence only to the short and local things. And the government of the Uncle Sam is making decisions that will have direct the future of the entire human population on the planet Earth. As I said, a different stories there, and a different level of responsibility  It's cannot be compared in congruent terms.
Ahh, despite of some example of the very effective decisions, of this superpowers, especially Uncle Sam, I think they all have one similar issue, some of them in less order, some of the have a real problems with it. They have a "baggage" of the past, a baggage of the mistakes, and the results of this mistakes, and I think they must to fix it. sooner or later, as the one said: "the victims must be honored, the guilties must be punished". But who the hell knows, it is too difficult, imho , ahh, nevermind...
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Blizzardboy
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posted May 31, 2017 08:14 PM |
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Confirmed: the States are rescinding and now leaving the Accord.
Lol. Dumb.
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Minion
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posted June 01, 2017 01:20 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 13:22, 01 Jun 2017.
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Yeah I don't get it, no one(?) wants US out of the Paris Agreement. Not the big companies of United States that advice him, but not EVEN the big oil companies like Exxon or BP. American people (7/10) want to stay in the Paris agreement as well. Only Trump and (part of) the Republican Party don't want it. 
The reason Donald wants out is that maybe he truly believes it is a hoax. Watching too much Fox News will do that to you, lol. Other Republicans like Michican representative Tim Walberg actually does believe in climate change but says God "will take care of it"!. That is some responsible policy making right there. 
The Head of Chinese Government Mr Li pointed out: "Fighting climate change is a global consensus, it's not invented by China." Dear lord he has to address the ramblings of that mad man across the pond xD Anyways this is probably to the only way forward on this issua as EU and China strengthen climate ties to counter US retreat. Strange times make strange bedfellows...
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Blizzardboy
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posted June 01, 2017 09:46 PM |
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I think Trump is very selective in his news and actually believes it is fake.
The US will eventually enter it, of course. We just need to wait for somebody more sane. It's too bad the slow-moving Senate didn't ratify the agreement or the president wouldn't be able to decide.
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Blizzardboy
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posted June 05, 2017 06:05 PM |
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Most top Pentagon jobs are still empty and in limbo. Trump is insisting on absolute loyalty to his platform.
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