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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 27, 2015 09:55 AM |
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Marzhin said:
dark-whisperer said:
I just wish we were informed and have this open conversation from the start so our expectations would be adjusted accordingly.
Had the outsourcer not suddenly increased its prices, we would not have needed that conversation at all. Best laid plans...
How on earth is it possible that a company as big as Ubisoft can make such ironclad contracts that it bankrupts a company(Blackhole) but is unable to get a quote on prices of models beforehand signing a short term partnership for a limited number of art assets? It just boggles my mind.
I know we like to have our fun with Erwan here but...God Damn that is bad management.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 27, 2015 10:24 AM |
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fuChris said:
unable to get a quote on prices of models beforehand signing a short term partnership for a limited number of art assets? It just boggles my mind.
Simply put, that's not how it works.
Outsourcers want to evaluate the amount of work before they agree to tackle a large number of assets, to make sure they're not biting more than they can chew. It's what I called a test run earlier. That's the common practice and in my opinion it's fair.
In our case after reworking units for one faction (Haven), they estimated it to be as much work as creating a brand new asset and basically doubled their prices.
And before you say it, yes, we did try with other outsourcers.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted August 27, 2015 10:32 AM |
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@Marzhin:
For feedback etc, I opened a thread where people can report bugs. Most people put these reports in their general Beta-impression down at the Beta Discussion-thread, but it might be worth to check the Bug-report thread too from time to time  .
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 27, 2015 10:37 AM |
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So that means thet we actually could have gotten brand new units for the same price? Neat. 
Also how cheaper would the models be without all those spikes? I know we need a unifying theme to go by when designing units but they are sooo tacky and increase poligon count too...
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 27, 2015 10:40 AM |
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Can't help but think that units with less decoration should cost less. Have you inquired about that? Because atm it looks like you may be paying more for something just about nobody cares about and many feel strongly against.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 27, 2015 10:41 AM |
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fuChris said:
So that means thet we actually could have gotten brand new units for the same price? Neat.
Well no, since we couldn't afford that price anyway.
fuChris said:
Also how cheaper would the models be without all those spikes? I know we need a unifying theme to go by when designing units but they are sooo tacky and increase poligon count too...
That doesn't change anything to the price. The price is per model, not per polygons.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 27, 2015 10:45 AM |
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What it does change is the load on the computer so that's not nothing.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 27, 2015 10:49 AM |
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fuChris said:
What it does change is the load on the computer so that's not nothing.
You can always set up the amount of details of the models in the game's options.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 27, 2015 11:03 AM |
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If by option you mean modding then I agree.
The Unreal Engine should be a pretty well optimized engine so the fact that many people experience slowdown due to load from graphics that are not "cutting edge" means youve gone overboard with spikes.
So if you mean that the current rework of some units cost as much as creating new ones then why not simply start with only 5 factions. We are kind of used to it now. It's hard to argue that it wouldn't have lead to a more polished vanilla game.
Also the fact that art assets had to be reused could have been communicated so much better with the community simply by having a vote that gave you a choice which 3 units you would like to see returned and simply polished up those while still having new ones. None of this predetermined lineup vote humbug which left many people miffed.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 27, 2015 11:08 AM |
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fuChris said:
Also the fact that art assets had to be reused could have been communicated so much better with the community simply by having a vote that gave you a choice which 3 units you would like to see returned and simply polished up those while still having new ones. None of this predetermined lineup vote humbug which left many people miffed.
I agree, and we ever do faction votes again I certainly hope we'll handle things differently. Live and learn, as they say.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 27, 2015 11:23 AM |
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Quote:
That doesn't change anything to the price. The price is per model, not per polygons.
Low poly models cost less than high poly ones  Ofc some spikes won't transform a low poly into a high poly one, but they still bulk up the model and add useless polygons which increase the rendering time and therefore the requirements, which people complained that are pretty high.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 27, 2015 11:26 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 11:28, 27 Aug 2015.
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Marzhin said:
Live and learn, as they say.
I haven't got much to add (yet  ) as I only downloaded and installed beta 2 so far, but I'd like to say I appreciate your presence here again, trying to answer all questions - even those that may be confronting.
The only thing I'd like to say is with regards to budgetting of the game. As you say, making new models or updating existing ones costs more, a lot more, so the budget assigned to it was quite large as well - at the expense of the budget of other sections of the game. I think most people feel budgetting was off for the other sections and given the choice, would rather have seen budget go into those sections than in new models. Of course, we as (rabid) fans are not in a position to make budget decisions - only through our purchases - but still it feels as if the choice that was made wasn't the optimal one.
I consider an expansion likely. Do you think that budgetting will be shifted differently for such an expansion? Relatively speaking more money into gameplay and such and less into graphical redesigns?
LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
That doesn't change anything to the price. The price is per model, not per polygons.
Low poly models cost less than high poly ones
That fully depends on the business deal that was made, Lizard. The company that made them may very well have charged UbiSoft per model instead of per polygon.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2015 11:37 AM |
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Thnx for replying and actually solving many mysteries,smth that it was not your job. Thanks again.
As for the heroes' specials,since the classes are all identical,grand mastering in exaxtly the same things,the specializations make it only worse. I know it's was not your department but i hope you do realize that each hero needs to stand out that way. Also bios and abilities are missing. Also can they actually make the camera zoom more like on H6 so we can actually see those expensive models? It s a shame.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 27, 2015 11:37 AM |
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Hm, curious why Marzhin (and Ubi-Nox) are always the ones to answer the questions. I mean, shouldn't more people from MM team be involved in answering questions? I know they are busy, but they certainly could find some spare time. Too many "why-s" and "how-s" for two people to answer.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 27, 2015 11:42 AM |
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Marzhin said:
I agree that a new round of iteration on specializations is much needed now that all ingredients are finally in place. I can't promise it can be done for the release), but I will definitely push the topic. Now it won't change the general philosophy behind specializations, but at least we can try to make them more useful and more fun.
Now that's simply discouraging
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sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted August 27, 2015 11:53 AM |
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EnergyZ said:
Hm, curious why Marzhin (and Ubi-Nox) are always the ones to answer the questions. I mean, shouldn't more people from MM team be involved in answering questions? I know they are busy, but they certainly could find some spare time. Too many "why-s" and "how-s" for two people to answer.
As far as I know, some guys from Limbic participated to yesterday's stream and were answering questions as well.
As for Ubi-Nox, that's a part of his job I think.
Can't say anything about Marzhin, I think the man himself will answer. ^^
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Shiro
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 27, 2015 11:55 AM |
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Yesterday I was playing the game for the first time. Does it have its faults? Definitly.
But for me personally the game has the heroes climate(suprisingly) which h6 was lacking. I started playing at 10 pm and stopped at 4 am.
All this time I was playing dungeon. Things about which I didn't know and liked in the faction:
1. faceless(as war machine)+strider on battlefield makes sense
2. war machines have unique abbilities in each facion
disliked
1. Minotaur is too big Black Dragon and hydra to small(we can see the same problem in other factions for example deer and green/emerald dragon)
2. Town is more purple in game than on arts because of UI which is placed on the more colorful parts of it(I'm looking for loose ends )
3. Many times you have no idea which building have you build.(where is it on the townscreen)
I had only one major bug and a lot of minor bugs(like bad animation etc.) which right now is okay.
Now overall notes
1 The 7 school magic system is definitly worse than the 4 magic schools system.
2 The special hero abbilities are important only at the begining of the game than they are non factors(which is not that bad actually) also darkstorm is not useless with current AI Why? Because he gets minotaur at the begining of the game and AI most of time targets the stronges creature and with it huge defence and hp stats you can win a lot battles in the begining of the game without any problems.
3. AI is a little bit stupid also on the higher difficulty I think it gets just more resource like in h3.
4. I'm sure that the gameplay is solid and a lot better than h6.
5. The interface isn't very good it's not terrbile but it's not natural. In some places it is lacking some features for example you can't get into hero stats in town.(It would be also better if you could see some photos of buildings you want to build before building them ike in h3 for example just some town screen screenshots)
Now question to Marzhin
Again what other said will there be anyway to change units scaling a little bit(maybe also some building scaling)?
Will add anything to see which building have we build?
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Shiro
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 27, 2015 12:01 PM |
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@LizardWarior This requirements are definitly not high. Most of games had comparable requirements 3 years ago.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 27, 2015 12:05 PM |
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A lot of people complained about the requirements and that they had to buy new PCs to play the game.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 27, 2015 12:17 PM |
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As far as I can see, the requirements aren't the problem. It's the horrific optimization! If this game and minimal graphics is way heavier than games like civ 5 on high-graphics, SC 2 on ultra, dying light on high-settings and so forth something is seriously wrong...(and h7 was running a hell of a lot smoother in the first demo during the early days for me...)
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
