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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 08:31 PM |
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Yeah, Golems and alot of the other units appear very similar to some of the artworks on the cards in Dual of Champions. If you want to guess what some of the unrevealed units will look like DoC is not a bad place to look, particularly at the designs that you don't see in Heroes 6 from the newer expansions.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 14, 2014 08:55 PM |
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Keep in mind though what's cleared stamped on the picture: "Work in progress". We're still a long way off from the game's release, so anything can happen to their size.
Maybe a nice item for a next vote:
"How do you want your Golem?
a) Gargantuan! Towering over the battlefield!
b) How about a normal, regular, human size?
c) As small as a mouse! Give me an army of insects!"
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 14, 2014 09:09 PM |
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Well like I said elsewhere, I think they should have merged the Golem with the Colussus. Golems have always been quite boring creatures in Heroes games and the new ones sadly seem to follow these lines, and the Golems and Colossi seem to grow increasingly close to each other both in theme (animated by the wizards) and looks (metallic, blue energy, etc.). Simply making the Golem an unupgraded form of the Titan would have given us the opportunity to have a really bad-ass Golem for once (and would have opened up the line-up for a new creature).
____________
What will happen now?
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 09:31 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Well like I said elsewhere, I think they should have merged the Golem with the Colussus. Golems have always been quite boring creatures in Heroes games and the new ones sadly seem to follow these lines, and the Golems and Colossi seem to grow increasingly close to each other both in theme (animated by the wizards) and looks (metallic, blue energy, etc.). Simply making the Golem an unupgraded form of the Titan would have given us the opportunity to have a really bad-ass Golem for once (and would have opened up the line-up for a new creature).
As a question, do you mind the Sentinel/Justicar/Landsknecht/Cuirasser? They are all melee human units, armored, and each are pretty similar, especially the Cuiriasser and Sentinel, as the only real difference between the two is that one rides a horse.
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 09:34 PM |
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Maurice said:
Keep in mind though what's cleared stamped on the picture: "Work in progress". We're still a long way off from the game's release, so anything can happen to their size.
Maybe a nice item for a next vote:
"How do you want your Golem?
a) Gargantuan! Towering over the battlefield!
b) How about a normal, regular, human size?
c) As small as a mouse! Give me an army of insects!"
Something between a and b? Like 8 feet tall or something like that.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 14, 2014 09:46 PM |
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Protolisk said:
As a question, do you mind the Sentinel/Justicar/Landsknecht/Cuirasser? They are all melee human units, armored, and each are pretty similar, especially the Cuiriasser and Sentinel, as the only real difference between the two is that one rides a horse.
I do, yes. Not the Cuirasser, but between the other three, there's about two too many melee human units in that lot.
____________
What will happen now?
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WhiteFang
Hired Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 10:15 PM |
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blob2 said:
Worst. Dungeon. Line-up. Ever.
Truth be told not any of the proposed line-ups was to my liking. Each of them was lacking in some way...
So what do we have ? Two (humanoid) Dark Elves (as if Heroes weren't enough), a construct and Medusa which is nice, but she's not one of my favorite's. Sigh... even Hydra won't help here.
I know, I know, it's the majority's voice. But I'm disappointed with devs propositions in general (it goes for Sylvan and Dungeon). To many humanoid units, not many beasts. Those few units which seem fresh (Sun Deer) or a welcomed come-back (Hydra) won't compensate for the ones we lost (Manticores, Unicorns, Beholders, and for some: Phoenixes).
If you look on both Sylvan and Dungeon line-ups you'll find that from those 16 units practically half are humanoid or semi-humanoid (sorry for the stupid name, but how will you call a Treant, Medusa or a Troglodyte?). I myself hate it. I enjoy playing games like Heroes with mythical beasts, not humanoids. Humanoids should be reserved for factions like Castle (which were always full of them but that's logical), rest should be havens for beasties...
The only thing that could slightly change my opinion would be a good design of said units, but I highly doubt they will make those humanoid units interesting...
This is EXACTLY how I feel.
Seriously, I can't believe that we got Sylvan and Dungeon, yet we are ending up with the worst line up for BOTH of them.
Probability-wise, the chances would be very slim, yet we are still having the two worst line ups.
As for Sylvan, I have no idea why majority fans decided to vote for the obvious worst line-up.
Dryads and Pixies together. Just wow...Aren't they almost identical? In fact, they were same units in Heroes 5.
And the rest of the units are exactly same as H5, just the deer replacing the unicorn. I still can't believe how this line-up ended up getting the most votes.
There were great new units in addition to the original return of phoenix in other line ups.
As for dungeon, I just can't believe fans actually voted for the worst line up just because of Medusa. Ya, Medusa is nice, but do fans seriously want her back so bad to vote for the worst line up?
Assassin and stalker instead of Assassin an lurkers?
Wow...weren't Assassins and stalkers the same units in H5 again?
And I can't believe people were actually willing to give up faceless and nightamres for the worst-ever construct strider, just because they want Medusa.
That's just ridiculous.
Again, people giving up Lurkers and Manticores, two creatures for Medusa. Wow...
Screw Medusa... she just ruined everything for dungeon.
Also, ubisoft and their developer should stop this whole voting thing. Seriously, are they trying to create an escape hole, and blame the fans later when the game is going to be horrible once released? I bet that is part of the reason why they are conducting this constant voting for literally everything now..
Even for the line ups, the could have easily come up with the best line-ups by combining the units from the three line-ups for both factions.
Dungeon, for example, could have had following line-up and probably very few people would have problems with such line-up
CORE: Assassin, Lurkers (OR another dark elf unit), Medusa
ELITE: Minotaur, Manticore, Faceless(could be switched with hydra)
Champion: Black dragon, Hydra (could be switched with faceless)
This line up has possibly three dark elves units, including faceless, and the beasts that most fans like-Black dragons, Hydra, Minotaur, Manticore, Medusa.
Yet, this developers and ubisoft had to create this non-sense line up voting with that horrible strider being present in two of the three line-ups. I find this most ridiculous, when Medusa, Manticore and faceless were in only one of the three line ups.
Seriously, I think the developers are ruining the games with this whole fan-voting system...
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted November 14, 2014 10:21 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Protolisk said:
As a question, do you mind the Sentinel/Justicar/Landsknecht/Cuirasser? They are all melee human units, armored, and each are pretty similar, especially the Cuiriasser and Sentinel, as the only real difference between the two is that one rides a horse.
I do, yes. Not the Cuirasser, but between the other three, there's about two too many melee human units in that lot.
I on the other hand do not.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 11:12 PM |
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Wellplay said:
alcibiades said:
Protolisk said:
As a question, do you mind the Sentinel/Justicar/Landsknecht/Cuirasser? They are all melee human units, armored, and each are pretty similar, especially the Cuiriasser and Sentinel, as the only real difference between the two is that one rides a horse.
I do, yes. Not the Cuirasser, but between the other three, there's about two too many melee human units in that lot.
I on the other hand do not.
See too many humans, or think the Cuirasser as different from the Sentinel?
Personally, if I can let slide 3 units from the* typically homogenized, race based faction (which I do, I like Haven this time around), then I can easily allow two units that are kinda similar amid a faction that has one of the most extremely diverse line ups when it comes to these factions. I mean, at most you have three constructs with the Golem, Gargoyle, and Titan, but you also have a beast man in the Rakshasa, a Mage human, a spirit Djinn, a giant magical bird/spirit animal/elemental aspect thing (I am going to exclude it's name, as I believe the name will definitely be changed) along with a little lizardman thing that throws fire around, and is still pretty mysterious in its origin (Is it a beast man? Is it a spirit? Is it a race of intelligent beings that isn't a spirit, an Elder Race, or one of their creations like the Orcs/Beastmen?). Only thing that comes close is Necro, but it's usually cut up into "Intelligent Undead" as Vampires/Liches/Death Knights (in H5), their "Dumbdead" underlings (Skelies, Zombies/Ghouls, Ghosts) and "Dead Beasts" (Lamasu and Dragons). Jury's out on those Wraiths and Namtaru, but together they are both ascribed the "Avatar of Death" role. That's 4 sections at best compared to Academies at least 4 sections with a few mysterious entries.
Where as Haven has Humans, Animals, and Angelic.
Yeah... Let Academy keep their Golems and Titans.
*Yes, Fortress exists. But I also said "typically". 1 game does not a pattern make, and thus I can't truly weigh Fortress against them just yet.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 14, 2014 11:23 PM |
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Personally I find normal that the human faction is very homogenized. My only complain is having too many units using swords when our history have a ton of varied weapons to choose from.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 11:28 PM |
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@WhiteFang It's just marketing... They need to get as many fans and new players interested in the game to get good sales(by getting people involved through voting-system). Naturally they try to cater as big audience as possible by giving everybody a little something. I think worst line-ups won from both votes too, but too late for that now.
I'm still waiting to see the h3 and h5 in the game which they kept promoting as their biggest inspirations. So far it seems that "returning to the roots of the series" was nothing more than marketing speech. Currently all I see is h6 re-make with few things from past games. I do hope I'll see something soon to make me think otherwise, but I really doubt that. The biggest thing I'm waiting to hear explanation for is the non-random skills.
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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 11:39 PM |
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Edited by A8T at 23:46, 14 Nov 2014.
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To be honest I am not that bothered about having 2 or 3 units from the same race/species etc.
A: I think this has always been the case for some factions like Haven, Inferno and Necropolis (in a way). Its only with Heroes 5 and after that more factions have became more associated with races.
B: Lore wise it makes sense to see the main denizens make up a large part of the army. Would be unusual to see the Dark Elf army with hardly any Dark Elves in it.
I do care though about making each unit in faction distinctive enough however, i.e. the Landsknecht is different enough from the Sentinel.
On a completely different note, I speculate that troops may have customisations options or there may be sub factions in each factions. Notice how the Haven troops all have Wolf Duchy Symbols and Colour Schemes? What is the likelihood that they may be Griffin, Stag, Unicorn ones for different duchies?
Then there is Academy with its different houses, Stronghold has Tribes, Dungeon and Sylvan have clans, Necropolis probably has sub factions like the Order of the Void.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 14, 2014 11:40 PM |
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WhiteFang said:
Dungeon, for example, could have had following line-up and probably very few people would have problems with such line-up
CORE: Assassin, Lurkers (OR another dark elf unit), Medusa
ELITE: Minotaur, Manticore, Faceless(could be switched with hydra)
Champion: Black dragon, Hydra (could be switched with faceless)
This line up has possibly three dark elves units, including faceless, and the beasts that most fans like-Black dragons, Hydra, Minotaur, Manticore, Medusa.
I find always funny when people come up with 'the best lineup, that would sattisfy everyone'. Obvious thing is that theyn would get as much love and critisism as lineups proposed by Ubisoft. Things that wouldn't be liked in your lineup are lack of Shadow Matriarchs and reptile riders from HoMM 5. We tailor "perfect lineups" to our own preferences, then we outrageously state that "everyone will like it". You aren't simply able to pander all tastes and stating that your lineup is better just because you like it does not mean everyone else will. When it would be created solely by Ubi, then people would critisize company for "not listening to fans" but when voting procedure is introduced, then Ubi is also a culprit because "people choose badly". In case of voting, however, there is one thing that speaks for it: with voting you are sure that most people will like the outcome (please, let's not speak about Sylvan lineup voting), where as with the predefined decision there is still a chance of not getting popular support.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 15, 2014 01:47 AM |
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WhiteFang said:
Seriously, I can't believe that we got Sylvan and Dungeon, yet we are ending up with the worst line up for BOTH of them.
Probability-wise, the chances would be very slim, yet we are still having the two worst line ups.
As for Sylvan, I have no idea why majority fans decided to vote for the obvious worst line-up.
Time-out here. I've seen several people post that it's the worst line-up ever. Quite obviously, that's a personal opinion - just like everyone else has a personal opinion. Everyone has had the chance to express their opinion through the votes and as such, many people consider the winner to be the best line-up (namely the people who voted on it). It's all in the eye of the Beholder (pun intended ).
But even before anyone exclaims that it's the "worst lineup ever", let's not forget that it was Ubisoft who initially designed three possible lineups. Each on their own would have validity and viability, because when they posted them, each had a chance to come up on top. I'm fairly certain that they didn't put up a mock line-up, expecting it to lose regardless. To say "worst lineup ever" therefore not only gives no credit to people who consider it otherwise, but also shows disrespect to the developer who initially designed it.
Going one step further: they didn't have to bring us the vote. They could have simply selected one and presented it to us as the final verdict on how the lineup will be implemented ingame - and we would have been none the wiser about other possible lineups they considered, so we wouldn't have been able to yell "worst lineup ever". In fact, that's something we don't have now, either; who knows how many alternative lineups they considered, before narrowing it to the three we could vote on?
Quote:
And I can't believe people were actually willing to give up faceless and nightamres for the worst-ever construct strider, just because they want Medusa.
That's just ridiculous.
Actually, the presence of the Nightmare and the Faceless was exactly the reason for me to not vote on Blades. I completely disliked the Nightmare concept for Dungeon (for me, Nightmare belongs to Inferno) and I disliked the Faceless as a unit completely, already disliked them in Heroes6. As a group of characters to drive the story they were great there, but they should never have been a battlefield unit, in my opinion. But that's my opinion and if you liked both units alot, more power to you. I won't tell you that you're an idiot because of it, because I respect you for your own choice.
In the end, however, the majority didn't vote for Blades and the only thing we can do is accept that as a fact. Now it's up to Ubisoft to "do something" with the lineup, to turn the concept into something functional on the battlefield, to make it interesting and fun. We'll have to wait for the game's release to find out just exactly what they are going to cook up.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 03:05 AM |
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I'd like to nominate Maurice for a quality star for the above post. 
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LRN
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 10:45 AM |
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted November 15, 2014 01:46 PM |
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@Maurice
That's why I said I didn't like the possible choices in general. After some initial enthusiasm (some new unit ideas) I found that those line-ups were not to my liking. Each choice was lacking, the combination of units sucked, because whatever the choice, some of them units I was most interested in would be left out at the end.
But it's my personal opinion, there are people who like more "humanoid" factions. I find them boring, I like more creature variety (the more claws, tails, wings, tentacles etc the better ).
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LRN
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 02:32 PM |
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Edited by LRN at 14:33, 15 Nov 2014.
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blob2 said:
@Maurice
That's why I said I didn't like the possible choices in general. After some initial enthusiasm (some new unit ideas) I found that those line-ups were not to my liking. Each choice was lacking, the combination of units sucked, because whatever the choice, some of them units I was most interested in would be left out at the end.
But it's my personal opinion, there are people who like more "humanoid" factions. I find them boring, I like more creature variety (the more claws, tails, wings, tentacles etc the better ).
Suggesting a Cthulhu Mythos/Far Realm faction, are you ?
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EPICUSDOOMICUS
Known Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 02:56 PM |
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LRN said:
blob2 said:
@Maurice
That's why I said I didn't like the possible choices in general. After some initial enthusiasm (some new unit ideas) I found that those line-ups were not to my liking. Each choice was lacking, the combination of units sucked, because whatever the choice, some of them units I was most interested in would be left out at the end.
But it's my personal opinion, there are people who like more "humanoid" factions. I find them boring, I like more creature variety (the more claws, tails, wings, tentacles etc the better ).
Suggesting a Cthulhu Mythos/Far Realm faction, are you ?
I'M IN, I'M IN!!!
H.P.Lovecraft and M.Moorcock are 2 of my favorite authors (the 3rd one is G.Masterton but that's irrelevant lol). Take anything from their writings, adjust it to Heroes Lore and I'm buying it!!
____________
To die in battle is the greatest glory.
To choose to do so is the greatest honor!
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted November 15, 2014 03:22 PM |
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EPICUSDOOMICUS said:
LRN said:
blob2 said:
@Maurice
That's why I said I didn't like the possible choices in general. After some initial enthusiasm (some new unit ideas) I found that those line-ups were not to my liking. Each choice was lacking, the combination of units sucked, because whatever the choice, some of them units I was most interested in would be left out at the end.
But it's my personal opinion, there are people who like more "humanoid" factions. I find them boring, I like more creature variety (the more claws, tails, wings, tentacles etc the better ).
Suggesting a Cthulhu Mythos/Far Realm faction, are you ?
I'M IN, I'M IN!!!
H.P.Lovecraft and M.Moorcock are 2 of my favorite authors (the 3rd one is G.Masterton but that's irrelevant lol). Take anything from their writings, adjust it to Heroes Lore and I'm buying it!!
Well, though not a fan, I like the idea behind Cthulhu Mythos (and some of the designs), but let's just leave them be. Though some people suggest strong Warhammer Universe influence in Ubi-era's Heroes design, I would rather like for the game to have it's own style. And by "tentacles" etc I was referring to more "traditional" critters like Krakens, Unicorns, Sphinxes, Lizard-man and other...
PS: Thinking back, Brood Mother from H6 is as "Lovecraf-tish" as one can possibly be
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
