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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 07:46 PM |
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Liz, not everyone hates the H6 Lich.
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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 07:47 PM |
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LizardWarrior - I know the fans didn't like the H6 version. Actually I didn't until now as I was anti social and didn't go on the forums (I didn't know people disliked sanctuary either).
But what specifically about the design did people not like?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Many people actually loved Sanctuary.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 30, 2015 07:50 PM |
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A8T said:
But what specifically about the design did people not like?
That it still has some flesh covering its skeleton.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 07:50 PM |
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There is also Necropolis thread titled.... Necropolis, the spiders Yay or Nay thread, Necropolis elite units thread (called Necro elites: should they be changed), Vampire male or female thread, Liches skeletal or humanoid thread, Black knight or dullahan thread, Should Ashan be scraped thread (which was inspired because of all Necropolis disscussion) ... and in most of those it's pointed out why people dont like Lich or Vampire or Spider or Necropolis in general ... as well as discussing Necropolis.
And yet ... this still is not enough, because ... well necropolis is important and for the past week general thread has been transformed into ... well Necropolis thread.
So I would suggest a moderator to rename this thread for instance ... idk ... Necropolis general discussion and lore ... and create new general discussion thread for ... general discussion.
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Pavijan
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 07:55 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Many people actually loved Sanctuary.
Agreed, me and my friends, who loathed Heroes 6 found Sanctuary the only bright spot there.
In fact the only reason why we forced selves to play a few maps is precisely to to test this faction.
We loved it, and imagined how nice it would be for it to show up again in some better game.... 
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted January 30, 2015 08:08 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Stevie said:
It's called Ashan.
I know of a religion where the avatar of a God died on a cross then came back to life and is still worshipped more than 2000 years later.
Rings a bell?
:sigh: That was not avatar of god... but son of god. There's a difference, you know.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 08:16 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Stevie said:
- I believe that the difference between Lich and Vampire lies solely in the Ritual. And I brought the example of Ornella becoming a Vampire where she does NOT become a Lich and does NOT consume Namtaru Venom. I even found the cutscene where that is as obvious as daylight - Link
So what you have to prove to make your case work is two things:
- that there is no other way of becoming a Vampire without that process (essentially saying that Ornella and the Kiss of the Spider Goddess is not canon).
And I am going to do just that. Sort of.
Because as Pawek pointed out correctly, the process there isn't finished. She's not a Vampire yet, as Arantir clearly states that Her Spirit needs to be "further purged in the crucible of Asha".
Em, no, she became a Vampire that moment. If not, then what did the ritual accomplish? A change in attire, pale skin and black hair that is somehow not connected to being a vampire? LoL. Her fundamental nature was changed that moment, it was the Kiss of the Spider Goddess ritual, not some silly bluff. Even the word "further" indicates that it further from something already established, and if it's not her vampiric nature, then what else is it?
Not only you do not become a vampire as a change of your spirit as you suggest by interpreting the phrase "your spirit shall be further purged in the crucible of the Goddess" literally, but there is already lore (Heroes 6 Vampire bio) that says that the change is in the body. The way that phrase is to be correctly interpreted is that she has to learn the Necromant's ways by being instructed in Heresh about Necromancy and the like.
And either way, that completely throws out the window the idea that you have to be a Lich and/or drink Namtaru Venom as a necessity in the process of becoming a Vampire.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 30, 2015 08:19 PM |
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A8T said:
But what specifically about the design did people not like?
AFAIK it's pretty simple, mostly it's about the skull head because it doesn't evoke the cool factor of the iconic skeleton lich (keep in mind Sandro was a fan favorite even back when he was just a portrait and not any kind of real character),
ultimately it looks more like a crackhead who's into bondage than a badass undead sorceror
minor points are it doesn't really evoke death in any way beyond its skin tone (could easily have been called a Warlock instead and noone would question it), it floats around and has a spider on its back which are just plain weird,
and its lore is just plain dumb with the idea that the vampire is naturally superior to the lich, which was never true in the past,
and basically the only reason or logic given as to why that is so is because that's the way dungeon master Erwin wanted it and you don't question the dungeon master lol
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2015 08:28 PM |
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A8T said:
Though I prefer the H5 Lich to the H6 one I don't understand what it is about the H6 Lich people dislike so much? It's essentially a thin bald floating dude with a staff. Is it the fact that it is humanoid compared to the traditional necropolis skeletons or is there more to it?
And as for the Vampire, was it not fairly similar to the H5 version anyway?
Sometimes it can be hard to pinpoint the exact details that make the difference. I actually really like the concept artwork for the H6 Lich (if not the Archlich), I even had him as my avatar for several years, I think he looks awesomely evil. However, the in-game model looks much less good to me. The H7 version at least has gotten rid of most of the green lights (although the eyes still remain and should go also!) but I still think it looks really bad on the screenshots we've seen so far.
As for the Vampire, it also has the issues of the green eyes which really is a killer for me. Apart from that, the over-sized sword is just plain stupid and really needs to be toned down. The H5 counterparts both seemed more realistic and more ... tasteful, for lack of better word.
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What will happen now?
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 30, 2015 08:40 PM |
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verriker said:
AFAIK it's pretty simple, mostly it's about the skull head because it doesn't evoke the cool factor of the iconic skeleton lich (keep in mind Sandro was a fan favorite even back when he was just a portrait and not any kind of real character)
You might imagine how furious I was when in H3 there appeared dozens of Lich Heroes who looked nearly exactly the same as Sandro =P
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 30, 2015 08:41 PM |
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Quote:
You might imagine how furious I was when in H3 there appeared dozens of Lich Heroes who looked nearly exactly like Sandro =P
I guess you were super-excited in h1 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 08:45 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:50, 30 Jan 2015.
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A8T said:
But what specifically about the design did people not like?
- has flesh, organs, cartilages, eyes, which is counter-intuitive to the idea of death
- he's a bald Uncle Fester
- he floats for some unexplained reason
- he looks like he's on crack
- he's a prune
- neon green everywhere including eyes
- spider legs coming out his back
- spiky garments cuz it's trendy
- if you're to read the lore, it sometimes suggests that he's actually still alive, which makes no sense in an Undead faction
- if his body is indeed dead but changes because of aging, then there's a contradiction
- stupid connection with Vampire that are supposedly above in rank, unheard of in past iterations and counter-intuitive
- unasked for transition from Skeletal Liches.
Think I even missed some.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 30, 2015 08:46 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
I guess you were super-excited in h1
Back in H1 there were no Necros to begin with  And Sandro was even more unique back in the day.
But I started from H2 tbh, so only later I discovered how badass Sandro really was. It's good they made him the Hero of SoD.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 30, 2015 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
Back in H1 there were no Necros to begin with
He is my favorite warlock and necromancer from the whole series  I even made his specialty skeletons in wog in order to play more with him
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 08:59 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:01, 30 Jan 2015.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 09:02 PM |
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Stevie said:
The only bad thing about Sandro wiping out Ashan from existence is that he didn't succeeded. 
Best plot twist ever.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 30, 2015 09:03 PM |
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Stevie said:
The only bad thing about Sandro wiping out Ashan from existence is that he didn't succeeded.
+graham's number
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 30, 2015 09:03 PM |
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Stevie said:
The only bad thing about Sandro wiping out Ashan from existence is that he didn't succeeded.
I guess you could say Sandro just inherently knows what's good for the Might and Magic series even when Ubisoft tries to control him lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 09:07 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:09, 30 Jan 2015.
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Viva la revolución! Let Sandro send Ashan to the Void and let's have a decent setting to start with. Heroes of Might and Magic could stand out and have different setting than the other M&M products. Free the developers from Erwin!
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
