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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:04 PM |
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Why do I get the feeling Gargoyles are ugly again, lol, what is it about this unit! And the stairs to Academy castle look the size of mountains. Titans must use them.
Other than that it is nice 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 05, 2015 08:06 PM |
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Minion said:
Why do I get the feeling Gargoyles are ugly again, lol, what is it about this unit!
i love everything about it! omg!  it's so hunched-over and monstrous here. really creepy.
sword look sick-awesome in this screen
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:14 PM |
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Dude, kiryu133, you DO understand that heroes are either Might or Magic from the very beginning, right? If you think JJ was arguing for a freestyle development like that, then you couldn't be more wrong. Read this post of his to convince yourself. His question is why SUBCLASSES are already specialized, he never questioned having Might and Magic heroes. It's called "Heroes of Might and Magic" for a reason, lol.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 05, 2015 08:16 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 20:21, 05 Mar 2015.
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Stevie said:
Edit: Btw, March Screenshots
I strongly suggest moving "Wait" and "Defend" buttons to the ring on the right side of the hero's portrait. There is so much space there! Besides, it will make navigating the screen much easier.
PS. Do you also have problems with posting comments on the blog? I use Chrome and IE.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:24 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:24, 05 Mar 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:24 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
how you play decide how you grow, not the other way around.
When you have one hero class per faction yes. In H7 there will be 6 classes for each faction.
When you have 6 classes you basicaly decide what kind of hero you will play when you choose a class.
It's that simple. This is because each class MUST be diferent than other classes by definition. If ti's not diferent then it's not diferent class.
Ubi said there will be diferent version of skill-wheel for each of the 6 classes. I belive most of them will share same skills to some extent tho. It might just be the situation where for example one class will be able to learn attack skill all the way to expert, while the other will only have basic skill available.... something like in H6. But it's too early to say, so this is just speculation atm.
Balance? It's only a matter of numbers. Open up the cfg. file and edit that snow. It comes from the simple fact: Might hero might passively increase attack of all his creatures by 3. Fine. Expert in Light magic can increase it by 5 for the duration of 10 turns for his entire army.... for 7 mana? ... sure. He has 200+ so it's not that big deal.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 05, 2015 08:30 PM |
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Stevie said:
Dude, kiryu133, you DO understand that heroes are either Might or Magic from the very beginning, right? If you think JJ was arguing for a freestyle development like that, then you couldn't be more wrong. Read this post of his to convince yourself. His question is why SUBCLASSES are already specialized, he never questioned having Might and Magic heroes. It's called "Heroes of Might and Magic" for a reason, lol.
i fail to see what i said is in any substantial way different from what he said there. picked skills determine hero growth, not starting class. a squire can turn into either a inquisitor (though no one expects it...) or knight. that's what he said. faction will have some impact in hero growth (no pure might academy or pure magic stronghold) and i agree with that. nothing i said even remotely goes against that post 
it't growing into either a might, magic or hybrid hero.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:40 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:54, 05 Mar 2015.
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You made it sound like Heroes start unaffiliated, then gain their Might or Magic affiliation through the Skills they choose. While JJ was arguing about specialization.
kiryu133 said:
different games will result in different builds and this decides whether your hero is might, magic, or both.
ZW got the same idea and replied accordingly.
kiryu133 said:
it't growing into either a might, magic or hybrid hero.
No it's not. It's either a Magic or a Might hero from the very beginning. And being one or the other has an influence on what stats you get. That's why I said that when JJ gets rid of this rule by associating stats distribution with Skills rather than class, the entire Might or Magic thing for heroes becomes just a fancy line of text with no meaning to it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 05, 2015 08:45 PM |
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Stevie said:
You made it sound like Heroes start unaffiliated, then gain their Might or Magic affiliation through the Skills they choose. While JJ was arguing about specialization.
ZW got the same idea and replied accordingly.
that was mostly for making things easier. i've also very much mentioned that heroes will start as one or the other
i think we're done with this though. or at least we get each other at last. i'm kinda sick of this discussion.
can we get some real news, please?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 08:55 PM |
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Stevie said:
So I see you understood as much as me, save for the fact that, in such a context, the differentiation between might and magic heroes is ultimately meaningless.
If you had read, what I've written half a dozen times or so you would know, that, YES, THERE IS NO SUCH DIFFERENTIATION, because what you become, evolves due to your picks.
Let's see:
Quote:
The Squire, becomes a Knight.
Skills - Righteousness (racial), Light Magic (magic), Attack (might), Defense (might), Leadership (might), Warnachines (might).
Attributes - 20 Attack, 20 Defense, 5 Spellpower, 5 Knowledge.
The Monk, becomes an Inquisitor.
Skills - Righteousness (racial), Light Magic (magic), Attack (might), Defense (might), Leadership (might), Warnachines (might).
Attributes - 20 Attack, 20 Defense, 5 Spellpower, 5 Knowledge.
Can you see the problem yet? If not, let me tell you - they have the exact same skills and the exact same attributes, BUT ONE'S MIGHT AND ONE'S MAGIC! Apart from their class and fancy names, there is LITERALLY 0 difference between them. So, in your zeal you lost sight of the most important point in having Might and Magic classes. YOU WANT THEM TO PLAY DIFFERENTLY. Your system DOES NOT HELP with that, it only makes it EVEN MORE CONVENIENT for Magic heroes to go for Might themselves, because it's simply better.
And I, on the other hand, want a game where Might heroes play Might and Magic heroes play Magic.
I said, you ´wouldn't understand it - and you didn't.
Let's take haven as an example - they start with 2 heroes, the Squire, and the Monk.
The Squire starts with Novice Defense and stats of 0 1 1 1. The Monk starts with Novice Light Magic and stats of 0 0 1 2. Obviously, a Defense pick gives a defense stat point and a Light Magic pick gives a Knowledge point.
The racial doesn't exist as a SKILL - instead in some or each skill there are faction abilities that may be picked up when the skill is picked (like every other ability, but over and above the allowed limit of 3 abilities per skill.
See what happens now? Each skill is linked with ONE stat - there MAY be skills that are linked with both, where you may pick. There may even be skills - Enlightenment comes to mind - that allows FREE pick. Prime Magic would be a free Magic pick, Light, Water and Earth would be Knowledge, the other 3 Power. If I would design this I'd have magic support skills, one for duration. Regular duration would be Power/5 (rounded up). I would also have a mana regain skill and limit the ways to get mana on the map. Dragon veins might give only say 50 points, mage guild 10 per level and day.
This way you'd build your hero. As a special bonus, the first TWO skills you'd reach a certain level with would determine your advanced Hero class. Oh, and one other thing: picking a magic school skill comes with a Trademark spell that you can't get via Guild. So say Monky starts with Basic Light and the Heal spell, the low level trademark Light spell. Since he's determined to pick a Power School, but can't get Dark, the decision is between Prime, Fire and Air. Fire it is, since the guild comes with a couple of them (remember: for picking a school skill level he gets a spell as well, so he isn't exclusively dependant on the guild). Monky eventually reaches the threshold with both Light and Fire Magic and becomes - of course - an Inquisitor. Class bonus for inquisitors MIGHT be: Immolation (ability) lasts 1 turn longer and fire spells are cast with +x power - or whatever niceties people come up with.
Squireboy, on tne other hand, has the problem, that developing magic powers will either need the full alotment of Prime Magic, dividing the points, but that won't make him a caster. War Cries are weaker, but, since they are more like tactical commands that need neither power nor duration this would be an alternative...
That's how I imagine things - not that this will happen this century, mind you.
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted March 05, 2015 09:02 PM |
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*Comes out of temporary lurk mode*
It looks like they improved the battle interface somewhat. The creature number indicators look much better, although the battlefield scaling looks off again, which is strange, because it looked a lot better in the screenshots posted in the 'Battles in Heroes VII'.
Otherwise, the screenshots look good. The graphics style is very nice.
Oh, and it looks like they're officially in the alpha phase now.
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 09:19 PM |
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I don't really like these predefined hero classes. Just like JJ I much prefer a H4-like system, where your skill choices determine your class. With predefined hero classes and this strict might/magic separation comes the inability to learn certain skills. When I play heroes I like too have all options open instead of being restricted by the class of my hero.
Stevie said:
It's called "Heroes of Might and Magic" for a reason, lol.
Stevie is right, it's called Heroes of Might and Magic. However, the system Stevie describes and what we seem to be getting with H7 is more like Heroes of Might or Magic.
I prefer the starting class of your hero, might or magic, only to influence the skills with which you start the game, not how you progress.
I like the idea of JJ to link the acquisition of primary and secondary skills. Maybe some racial influences could be connected to the proposed system. For example bonus primary skills dependent on race every so many levels, or an increased amount of points gained when choosing faction preferred skills (like wizards gaining bonus knowledge when choosing magic skills).
I would like to add one point of comment: what will happen when you choose a utility skill like logistics?
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 09:28 PM |
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Maurice said:
It itches me like crazy that Might Heroes are mainly passive (and fill their time with idiotic melee charges against enemies even if they're behind walls) while Magic Heroes have to tap into their potential by making strategic choices on which spells to cast to affect the outcome of a battle.
Meh. It's not a might's fault if most magic heroes turtle in a corner, or behind walls. And shoot. Although I will agree with you on the visible result, however. But hey, try a might versus might match, they're the best! Like a chess match, all about unit positioning.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 09:36 PM |
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First, yes, I thought about "bonus" abilities that might let you pick something.
I would have no problem whatsoever to have utility stuff where you can't see a connection to a primary give you a RANDOM attribute.
I also had kind of an improved skill wheel done where there were 4 "utility skills", placed between 2 stat positions. Logistics was one of them.
What is really turning me off now, as we go into round 7 is the fact that you start - as a Knight. And end - as a Knight. Really? I mean, think magic: you start as a WIZARD - but you don't know a spell (or maybe one) and you have no special abilities or skills or whatever. NOTHING. But you are a Wizard. And then there is this guy who has 20 spells of 3 different schools and can cast them with devastating effect, and he is - right: a Wizard. Fabulous. 
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 09:40 PM |
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I don't think JJ's idea is bad. I can see it working. But not in H7. In H7 we'll get 6 classes. It's been decided. Maybe it'll be possible to mod it later, and get all skills in one big skillwheel and remove the classes. No class mod for H7.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 05, 2015 09:51 PM |
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I suddenly understand the hate about comic sans 
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 05, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Stevie said:
Submitting doesn't work on Chrome, apparently.
I have the same problem, it's quite annoying. I tried posting but it doesn't respond. Let's hope it won't all spawn after the bug is fixed...
10.000 comments under one post because I kept trying without success...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 05, 2015 10:09 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
a squire can turn into either a inquisitor (though no one expects it...)
lol
While I initially found the idea of magic attack and defense interesting, I have grown to be against it. Makes balancing a nightmare, diminishes the gameplay difference between might and magic heroes and introduces a number of other issues that I won't go into. Too much trouble for what it's worth. I am not against magical damage but I'd rather see it affected by elemental resistance/weakness to keep things simple.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 05, 2015 10:13 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:15, 05 Mar 2015.
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Nice leveling up system, JJ. Slightly reminds me Diablo 2 at the phase when you decide to become a cold casting Sorceress or a fire casting Sorceress after the synergy updates.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2015 10:22 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
What is really turning me off now, as we go into round 7 is the fact that you start - as a Knight. And end - as a Knight. Really? I mean, think magic: you start as a WIZARD - but you don't know a spell (or maybe one) and you have no special abilities or skills or whatever. NOTHING. But you are a Wizard. And then there is this guy who has 20 spells of 3 different schools and can cast them with devastating effect, and he is - right: a Wizard. Fabulous.
it's progression ... Name an RPG where you don't start useless at the bigining and then become godlike at the end. And your class dosen't change. Have you played D & D? You are a Paladin who has trouble killing rats. When you improve your power you are battling demigods and are hoping through dimentions ...
It's silly. But after a couple of dozens of years you kinda get used to the concept ...
EDIT: Also, most magic heroes start with a spell. This was the case in H3 and H5. In H6 you select your starting skill (logistics ofc).
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
