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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 05:58 PM |
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Wellplay said:
Ellderon said:
*sigh*
I wish I could get hyped, but I can't.
the Heroes franchise has been all but ruined for me.
My 3 favorite factions and favorite units have been destroyed.
Academy ruined by turning them into arabian nights anglamation. No more medieval wizards with griphons, hobbits, golems, wargs and stuff
Elves ruined by being turned into native american shamans. No more phoenixes.
Bad-ass crusaders/paladins turned into a snowty unit. No more H2 greatness - Paladins with a zweihander, in shining armor with cloak billowing in the wind. Gone.
Haven turned to s*** in general. I see 7 has even given Wargs to haven faction. First Griffons, now this.
There is no focus or unity in design anymore. It's like melting pot of everything - "let's just mix different cultures and mythical creatures willy-nilly"
Than just go and buy H2 from gog and play it. If you hate H7 than don't read anything about it or even buy it.
Has it occurred to you that Ubi makes a bad name to Heroes? That being said, most of us like how well they did the past games, as if they put a lot of development in MOST THINGS. Ubi these days makes a bad name to Heroes making these games. CoH and H5 are exceptions, but others feel half-developed, as if not enough time was spent in development, just rushed in with new ideas which may not even work.
It seems that the reputation that was built around Might & Magic slowly degrades and is falling down.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 06:07 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
It seems that the reputation that was built around Might & Magic slowly degrades and is falling down.
Dude, we're free falling at this point.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 10, 2015 06:13 PM |
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Datapack said:
Dude, we're free falling at this point.
Don't be modest
It's more like it's being hyper-beamed by a mega-Rayquaza.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 06:17 PM |
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Ellderon said:
Genyaarikado said:
Ellderon said:
It's like melting pot of everything - "let's just mix different cultures and mythical creatures willy-nilly"
not sure if ironic or serious. Becuase if serious
LOL
Dead serious.
How does mixing everything make things better?
Do you cook that way?
No, you are careful to take into account what each ingredient does and how it affects the greater whole.
Mixing everything that looks "cool" leads to a icoherent mess (like D&D is now).
generally the complaint about Ashan is that the creatures lineups are too rigid and bound to factions unlike the NWC era where they jumped all around.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 06:26 PM |
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Genyaarikado said:
generally the complaint about Ashan is that the creatures lineups are too rigid and bound to factions unlike the NWC era where they jumped all around.
No (well, not all the times).
The deal is that they sometimes lack originality. Having few legacy creatures is fine, but they get to the point when they just use lore or simply don't have imagination for new stuff.
Just how many people do you know that like lamasu? I, personally, don't think it is good nor bad, but I have yet to hear a person that praises it.
Sometimes it depends on what the faction presents. You know well what happened when spider was revealed. At least they had common sense to make a new creature, simurgh (even if it is a bit glittery).
So if one needs to make a new creature, it has to have some new stuff in it, but needs to make it logical. Personally I'd prefer if they make multi-faction creatures (like dwarf mage, elven knight or demon witch).
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 10, 2015 06:39 PM |
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I want new takes on old creatures mixed with all-new creatures while keeping a few "must-haves" in each faction (you can't have haven without crusader or knights or rampart without Unicorns). I would also like experimentation with faction culture. Like, say, Viking stronghold or "Mayincaztec" fortress.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 06:47 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
(you can't have ... rampart without Unicorns).
Depends... are you referring to Sylvan or have intentionally written Rampart?
For in either case, I approve. Shame on Ubi to threw away unicorns, probably phoenixes as well.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 07:08 PM |
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Throwing out unicorns was a fan decision (well, sort of  )
But, it's a shame that it takes weeks and months to make a new creature with all this 3D modelling, texturing, animations, adding spikes, etc.
They could be much more creative if creature design was less expensive.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 07:15 PM |
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icefield said:
Throwing out unicorns was a fan decision (well, sort of )
That's what Ubi makes it like. Why wasn't it like Dungeon, to have black dragon and hydra in all line-ups?
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 07:28 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Has it occurred to you that Ubi makes a bad name to Heroes? That being said, most of us like how well they did the past games, as if they put a lot of development in MOST THINGS. Ubi these days makes a bad name to Heroes making these games. CoH and H5 are exceptions, but others feel half-developed, as if not enough time was spent in development, just rushed in with new ideas which may not even work.
It seems that the reputation that was built around Might & Magic slowly degrades and is falling down.
I don't agree with this statement. I quite liked MMX and DoC is pretty popular. HO is a bit of a cash grab, but otherwise fairly interesting and Heroes Kingdoms, well I don't really know actually, but it was not bad.
The only game that really was bad was H6 and apparently even that game has its fans. Now H7 will not appeal to every one of us, but if they manage to get it playable on release I think it will be quite a good game. Just maybe not as close to the heroes formula (whatever that may be) as some of us want, but definitely a lot better than H6.
So please don't say that Ubi is degrading the M&M brand just because they had one big miss. Actually it is good that they are expanding the brand with different types of games, as this might attract new players for the Heroes titles, which could result in a future title having less of these annoying budget restrictions.
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 07:32 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
icefield said:
Throwing out unicorns was a fan decision (well, sort of )
That's what Ubi makes it like. Why wasn't it like Dungeon, to have black dragon and hydra in all line-ups?
To be fair, dungeon and dungeon creatures were arbitrary collections since NWC times. H3 moved the warlock town underground, keeping the flying dragon (flying in tunnels?) but not the hydra which would have fitted there. I wouldn't blame Ubi for silly lineups, and I don't mind a change there. I'd blame Ubi/Limbic for boring gameplay, if that's what H7 delivers.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted June 10, 2015 07:37 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 19:37, 10 Jun 2015.
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icefield said:
To be fair, dungeon and dungeon creatures were arbitrary collections since NWC times. H3 moved the warlock town underground, keeping the flying dragon (flying in tunnels?) but not the hydra which would have fitted there.
Heroes 4 moved Warlock faction back to the swamps and bring back hydra. Unfortunately Heroes 5 fallowed H3 in nearly anything, so we get Dungeon again (but at least with hydra).
icefield said:
Throwing out unicorns was a fan decision
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 07:46 PM |
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Steyn said:
EnergyZ said:
Has it occurred to you that Ubi makes a bad name to Heroes? That being said, most of us like how well they did the past games, as if they put a lot of development in MOST THINGS. Ubi these days makes a bad name to Heroes making these games. CoH and H5 are exceptions, but others feel half-developed, as if not enough time was spent in development, just rushed in with new ideas which may not even work.
It seems that the reputation that was built around Might & Magic slowly degrades and is falling down.
I don't agree with this statement. I quite liked MMX and DoC is pretty popular. HO is a bit of a cash grab, but otherwise fairly interesting and Heroes Kingdoms, well I don't really know actually, but it was not bad.
The only game that really was bad was H6 and apparently even that game has its fans. Now H7 will not appeal to every one of us, but if they manage to get it playable on release I think it will be quite a good game. Just maybe not as close to the heroes formula (whatever that may be) as some of us want, but definitely a lot better than H6.
So please don't say that Ubi is degrading the M&M brand just because they had one big miss. Actually it is good that they are expanding the brand with different types of games, as this might attract new players for the Heroes titles, which could result in a future title having less of these annoying budget restrictions.
Well it just looks like it and feels like it. All because they wanted something entirely different. I do know they release different games (heck, even NWC tried with Legends, Shifters or Warriors) and I approve of it. I just don't approve they are starting to warp everything around. They did it with H6 and still do.
I don't know much about Kingdoms, but I'll give you the doubt and say it was good. Heroes Online does not feel epic (just two factions, bunch of creatures and quests here and there), unlike other MMO-s.
Heroes VII feels bad because they are making same mistakes again with H6: no 7-tier system, 7 schools with some spells (should be more), mostly same icons from H6 (probably not important, but just feels less and less original) and little improvement from Area of Control.
All I am saying is they just don't show much dedication. NWC did great with H3, Ubi did it great with H5 (after a lot of post-development with patches and DLC-s).
One should always revise history and see how they did it, then try fixing it, adding new features and improving the state of the game. Ubi, however, just adds new features (which may not even work).
Their ambitions to make a good game are staggering. Instead, greed flows through the veins.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 07:47 PM |
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Avonu said:
Heroes 4 moved Warlock faction back to the swamps and bring back hydra. Unfortunately Heroes 5 fallowed H3 in nearly anything, so we get Dungeon again (but at least with hydra).
and with SM elves. It appears that it's impossible to design a decent underground faction. H7 did take some inspiration from H2, they should have scrapped dark elves and resurrect an overground warlock faction instead. But that's too late.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 10, 2015 07:50 PM |
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icefield said:
Avonu said:
Heroes 4 moved Warlock faction back to the swamps and bring back hydra. Unfortunately Heroes 5 fallowed H3 in nearly anything, so we get Dungeon again (but at least with hydra).
and with SM elves. It appears that it's impossible to design a decent underground faction. H7 did take some inspiration from H2, they should have scrapped dark elves and resurrect an overground warlock faction instead. But that's too late.
You already know their answer why.
Lore.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 10, 2015 08:20 PM |
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icefield said:
To be fair, dungeon and dungeon creatures were arbitrary collections since NWC times. H3 moved the warlock town underground, keeping the flying dragon (flying in tunnels?) but not the hydra which would have fitted there.
you do understand the tunnels in Heroes 3 are supposed to be big enough to build entire cities and kingdoms in, right? lol
____________
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 10, 2015 08:25 PM |
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verriker said:
you do understand the tunnels in Heroes 3 are supposed to be big enough to build entire cities and kingdoms in, right? lol
caverns still. The H3 black dragon is just too big and bulky to be able to thrive in a cavernous environment. H5 did try and make it smaller and more cave-fitting at least.
I would like dungeon, if they'll keep them cave-dwelling, to make the dragons more land-dwelling, maybe get rid of the flying completely. More logical than having a forest-dwelling dragon lose it at least 
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted June 10, 2015 08:53 PM |
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Ok, let's take a look at *the* archetype dragon: Smaug. Where did he have his residence? Right, at the bottom of the Lonely Mountain, sleeping on a pile of gold. If that doesn't scream "cavern" as a preferred habitat, then I don't know what does. And yes, I shamelessly refer to Lord of the Rings, because that's the foundation of most of the modern fantasy stories in the world.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 09:37 PM |
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Smaug is from The Hobbit Maurice 
And I thought the dragon that lives in a cave on his pile of treasure is older than Tolkien...
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 10, 2015 09:39 PM |
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verriker said:
icefield said:
To be fair, dungeon and dungeon creatures were arbitrary collections since NWC times. H3 moved the warlock town underground, keeping the flying dragon (flying in tunnels?) but not the hydra which would have fitted there.
you do understand the tunnels in Heroes 3 are supposed to be big enough to build entire cities and kingdoms in, right? lol
*currently playing some H3 map* Of course, lol. Underground in H3 is a device for making interesting maps, interconnected, symmetric. Even in terms of Fantasy, it's not intended to be realistic (but graphically ok given the H3 overall design).
Maurice said:
Ok, let's take a look at *the* archetype dragon: Smaug. Where did he have his residence? Right, at the bottom of the Lonely Mountain, sleeping on a pile of gold. If that doesn't scream "cavern" as a preferred habitat, then I don't know what does. And yes, I shamelessly refer to Lord of the Rings, because that's the foundation of most of the modern fantasy stories in the world.
The dragon on a hoard in a cavern is *the* archetype dragon of European mythology, of course. Smaug is supposed to be exactly that. But the mythological dragon is not necessarily a flying dragon. Smaug had wings, but did he use them inside the cavern? In Tolkien's mythology, dragons were supposed to live overground as well, in the far North.
@EnergyZ: Lore, of course. Why shouldn't a different, overground, Warlock faction also worship Malassa? Even in Ashan, not everything is set in stone 
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
