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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 20, 2015 10:16 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 22:20, 20 Jun 2015.
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These all are valid things, but you forget some things, such as the majority likes the old traditions, as well as it has passed more than 20 years since H1, yet some mechanics are degraded. Just compare the townscreens for example: H7 townscreens are generally disapproved, as they aren't in 3D (like H5) or the buildings are just too centered, unlike in other games. You could say this is just an opinion, but it is shared by many people, enough to say "it is bad".
I would also agree if it was a new tradition, but feels way too different for Heroes. Could've been like H5: introducing new things, as a part of a new tradition, while letting other things remain same, if not improved.
icefield said:
EnergyZ said:
Ashan lore needs to be deeper
I'd say it differently - it's already too deep. The characteristics of the old universe was that it was open - everything can happen, and any character or creature may appear or switch context. And some questions were deliberately left open.
I still think that Ashan can also become more of an open world, so game designers have a choice whether to take up a loose end or invent something entirely new. Maybe it's not so certain that dragons are ruling that world? Different religion, new elements in backstory? The void? The series needs fresh elements. I hope for Marzhin's creativity here.
Er, yes, partially. One part is to let games build lore, not lore building games. But I also think some things could've been made better to avoid complaints, like dragon gods, necro spider cultists, elves based off LotR and other things.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 20, 2015 10:23 PM |
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@EnergyZ
The town screen issue is the following. Some prefer 2D, others prefer 3D. But it all depends on the developers, i.e. how well do they make that feature. If it is bad it is bad regardless if it is being made in 3D or 2D. The preference is preference, but it is important that the feature is still here (and hopefully in satisfactory quality).
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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celiton
Hired Hero
Thinking before doing
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posted June 20, 2015 10:24 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
Comparison of Heroes games to a building
[url=http://imgur.com/0a7IM2y] [/url]
Well, this is perfect depiction of my feelings from beta and my general feelings from the current state of the game. The building probably will not fall, but it will look weird and it might be hard to build another floor in future.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 20, 2015 10:27 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 22:28, 20 Jun 2015.
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@sleeping_sun
Game theory? YES! Let's talk games!
I don't agree. Heroes is a game franchise and is therefore art. Art is completely subjective and as such everyone has different opinions and definitions including Heroes. It all depends on your personal relation with the games. For me i imagine the franchise more as a tree with H3 at the base and H1-2 as invisible roots since i don't have any experience with them. I didn't know of their existence when i started playing the franchise and as such they have no meaning to me. Now, have H3 as the sturdy stem of the tree and have it branch in two different directions: one goes to the side and ends in H4, the other goes straight up a bit further and goes into H5 to then continue into a naked, damaged branch symbolizing H6.
(I'm an artist)
What does this say? Well, my definition of Heroes is fundamentally different: I find H3 to be the "core" of the franchise. That's where i get my expectations from and what I compare them all to. I don't compare them to H1 or 2. How could I? I acknowledge that's where the games come from and that they are important to the other games but H3 is forever my definition of Heroes.
The only definition of Heroes is the one you first got invested in. For most of us it's H3, for some it's H2 or H1 and for some it's H5. What came before that game is irrelevant for your heroes definition.
icefield said:
I'd say it differently - it's already too deep.
No, it's too complex with 0 depth.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted June 20, 2015 10:35 PM |
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I would not say it is complex either to me it is a large amount of simple unoriginal information which leaves nothing to question thus making it to me boring. Also where is H7 on the tree?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 20, 2015 10:39 PM |
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Gryphs said:
I would not say it is complex either to me it is a large amount of simple unoriginal information which leaves nothing to question thus making it to me boring. Also where is H7 on the tree?
Haven't played H7 so it does not exist in relation to the HoMM tree.
Ashan is filled with ludicrous amount of information and lore (complexity) but it's so very lacking in nuance and meaning (depth).
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted June 20, 2015 10:52 PM |
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I always viewed complexity as part of depth so to speak. Ashan's lore lacks complexity to me because everything interacts with each other in the same way guided irrevocably by divinity that's it all other information is just a mountain of fluff that adds nothing.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 20, 2015 10:56 PM |
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@kiryu133
Tell me, is game mechanics an art? But just game mechanics? I am not asking for aesthetic depictions of factions and units, just mechanics. Game making is an art, I agree, but we are talking about much more than just a mere art here. We are talking about a legacy that consists of many notions, and it cannot be watered down to "it is just an art and thus it is subjective". (Oh, and by the way, I'm an artist myself, even though I do not know what it has to do with anything...)
I already acknowledged that there is something between an individual and the game but that something is not defining what the game is because the game existed even before that feeling developed! For example, I do not play Witcher, but does the Witcher have its own tradition even without me? Of course it does. Is it defined without me, or does it have its own definition of what the Witcher is even without me? again, of course it does. That is why I said that "definition" has nothing to do with any other factor besides the game itself. That is why I separated the game itself from the emotional impact that the game leaves on us.
Quote:
What does this say? Well, my definition of Heroes is fundamentally different: I find H3 to be the "core" of the franchise. That's where i get my expectations from and what I compare them all to. I don't compare them to H1 or 2. How could I? I acknowledge that's where the games come from and that they are important to the other games but H3 is forever my definition of Heroes.
The only definition of Heroes is the one you first got invested in. For most of us it's H3, for some it's H2 or H1 and for some it's H5. What came before that game is irrelevant for your heroes definition.
This is rather silly. You find H3 to be the core of the game because it had a lot of things more or less properly built and combined (and maybe you were introduced by it to the series), thus it is logical that you expect something to be build upon that as well. But you forget the point that H3 wasn't the first game. It didn't introduced the basics, H1 did. H3 was just building upon the old things that were good and then expanded. My first game was H3, then H4, H5, H2 (very brief), while I watched H1 and H6 on youtube a bit. But I do not claim that H3 is the base. It is something that needs to be surpassed, yes, since it raised the standard, but the first standard was made by H1, with or without you.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 20, 2015 11:49 PM |
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted June 20, 2015 11:56 PM |
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@Sleeping_Sun: You deserve a QP!!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted June 21, 2015 12:11 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
(I'm an artist)
Do not let anybody tell you the contrary! 
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 21, 2015 12:33 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
kiryu133 said:
(I'm an artist)
Do not let anybody tell you the contrary!
We all are artists. Some just don't realize that.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 21, 2015 10:36 AM |
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leiah2 said:
@Sleeping_Sun: You deserve a QP!!
Thanks.  We'll see if I get one. xD
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 21, 2015 11:30 AM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
This is rather silly. You find H3 to be the core of the game because it had a lot of things more or less properly built and combined (and maybe you were introduced by it to the series), thus it is logical that you expect something to be build upon that as well. But you forget the point that H3 wasn't the first game. It didn't introduced the basics, H1 did. H3 was just building upon the old things that were good and then expanded. My first game was H3, then H4, H5, H2 (very brief), while I watched H1 and H6 on youtube a bit. But I do not claim that H3 is the base. It is something that needs to be surpassed, yes, since it raised the standard, but the first standard was made by H1, with or without you.
I recognise that H1-2 were before and influenced H3. That's not what this is about however. It's about what definition people have of Heroes and my definition is Heroes 3. What came before is irrelevant. H3 is what i base all my thoughts on other heros games (and most strategy games) on. If i were to play H2 now (damn complete edition, not working properly  ), it would take the shape of a branch. Not a root as is said earlier. That's my picture of heroes. my definition of it. It's not (hopefully) the creators definition but it is mine and nothing will change that.
leiah2 said:
@Sleeping_Sun: You deserve a QP!!
indeed
Storm-Giant said:
Do not let anybody tell you the contrary!
what can i say? i'm into self-deprecating humor
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 21, 2015 12:02 PM |
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Anyone seen this?
http://youtu.be/oLYxTcHr8JU
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 21, 2015 12:10 PM |
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properkheldar said:
Anyone seen this?
http://youtu.be/oLYxTcHr8JU
What is this nonsense? There was no announcement the game would appear at E3. Bah! We get nonsense of articles at the H7 site and nothing about this was mentioned.
I can see the moon doe saw some "things", pixie looks a bit unnatural (didn't think it'd have red hair, thought of yellow or green), blade dancer looks "meh" and the green dragon does not look like a dragon. More like a dinosaur.
Also, any idea why the video is in German?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 21, 2015 12:12 PM |
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Unupgraded unit duels huh.
Basic blade dancers seem to have.. vigilance? And a green skirt? While also trying their best to look Indian. Okaay.
Like how the rest of the units look.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 21, 2015 12:25 PM |
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Very pleased wih the pixies and green dragons. I was dreading pixies more in line with the artwork shown at the line up vote. Now they remind me of H2-H4, great. Green dragon is new and innovative, great aswell. Moon doe and blade dancers might "blossom" when upgraded. The whole lineup seems to be fun, colourful snd magical. This, is what i wanted.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 21, 2015 12:30 PM |
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Well, a shiny doe is about as exciting as a shiny goat. But hopefully it will have fun gameplay..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 21, 2015 12:48 PM |
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I'd like to comment on unit visuals, but all I see are ants 
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
