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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 03, 2015 09:34 PM |
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I really like the Nature's Revenge abilities. Impede, Enliven, Nature's Wrath and Nature's Luck are all very innovative abilities that will make a significant impact on how the combat plays out. I'm really happy with those, I wish more of the skills in the game would have the same quality.
Btw. about Sting - when exactly is a mark removed - when a creature attacks another subject? When the creature attacks the same subject next round? When the round ends? If 50 damage is dealt each time the round ends for each mark, that quickly adds up to a lot of free damage.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted July 03, 2015 09:51 PM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 21:52, 03 Jul 2015.
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alcibiades said:
I really like the Nature's Revenge abilities. Impede, Enliven, Nature's Wrath and Nature's Luck are all very innovative abilities that will make a significant impact on how the combat plays out. I'm really happy with those, I wish more of the skills in the game would have the same quality.
Btw. about Sting - when exactly is a mark removed - when a creature attacks another subject? When the creature attacks the same subject next round? When the round ends? If 50 damage is dealt each time the round ends for each mark, that quickly adds up to a lot of free damage.
From my understanding is each level of mastery gives you one mark so let's say level 1 you have one mark and mark a creature if you mark another creature the mark is removed and deals said damage to previous marked unit the same applies to level 2 but now if you wish to mark a third creature one gets his mark removed randomly and for level 3 the same as level 2 you just have 3 mark and can either mark 3 units or just one unit 3 times or any other possible combination.Just a tought
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 03, 2015 10:14 PM |
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What I understood is that at novice each enemy creature can have a maximum of 1 mark and each additional mastery level raises this limit by one. And the marks are removed at the end of each round.
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 03, 2015 10:16 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 22:16, 03 Jul 2015.
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Kenishi said:
From my understanding is each level of mastery gives you one mark so let's say level 1 you have one mark and mark a creature if you mark another creature the mark is removed and deals said damage to previous marked unit the same applies to level 2 but now if you wish to mark a third creature one gets his mark removed randomly and for level 3 the same as level 2 you just have 3 mark and can either mark 3 units or just one unit 3 times or any other possible combination.Just a tought
Actually, every attack (standard and activated abilities both count) add a mark to the enemy stack. The maximum number of marks depends on the Heroes' skill. Whenever the turn ends (that's the only condition stated at the skill which removes marks), each enemy stack takes 50 damage for each mark on it.
This is actually pretty much like the Sanctuary racial, which is more effective when spreading the attacks around the enemy stacks. Even if the individual attacks aren't very worth it, each end turn will add a massive load of damage. Or said otherwise, any attack that doesn't add a mark to the enemy because the enemy stack already has the maximum number of marks, is a waste of 50 damage come the end of the turn.
In fact, with the skill that adds two extra deployment slots, you can seriously boost damage from this skill.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted July 03, 2015 10:17 PM |
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Indeed, we need more info about how the revenge mark works. The first time i read it, i understood that the marks an attack leaves is automatically 3 with master level.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 03, 2015 11:52 PM |
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Kenishi said:
From my understanding is each level of mastery gives you one mark so let's say level 1 you have one mark and mark a creature if you mark another creature the mark is removed and deals said damage to previous marked unit ...
I read it differently. I read it like each creature provides a mark, but at Novice level, a target stack can only have one mark on it. At Expert level, each target stack can have up to two marks on it (for cummulative effects) and at Master level, each target can have up to three marks on it.
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 04, 2015 12:00 PM |
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I really like the elven racial skill, so far the best one ! They solved it much better than in H5 and it will give unique playstyle to this faction .. looks like leadership will be really useful for the elves !
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2015 12:59 PM |
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I have a bit mixed feelings about the sylvan racial. On one hand it seems very strong, but it also seems to have huge potential for abuse. It also essentially takes out destiny as potential skill from elves and replaces it with morale. Extra slots from morale + extra morale turns = lots of extra marks = dmg and guaranteed criticals. With bunch of pixies and hunters one could easily go creep champions early on with this, just get 2nd hero with morale gov ability and you are practically guaranteed plenty of morale turns as it's equivalent of master level morale. I guess time will tell if it will be so easy to truly abuse the skill. Honestly I'm much more worried about necromancy balancing though.
And about the warmachines, on my level 15-20 might hero with maxed warfare they had 40 atk/def and 5k hp as I recall. Damage was something like 100-150 per shot(three shots), but I don't remember that precisely(they barely kill 2 arcane eagles). They are viable for the first month roughly IMO, after that other skills/abilities would have been better choices meaning warfare is good for small maps. On the bigger beta map they were outdated before I even got out of my own quarter of the map so I can't say I would realistically ever use them as I play only bigger maps. If one could build them up on 2nd hero and move to first hero it would be a different matter, but seeing as the damage will remain stagnant you can get much better skills instead for main hero(given that there is that damned level 30 limit).
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 04, 2015 01:28 PM |
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sorry if it's been answered already, but does natures revenge only work with Sylvan creatures? it's a bit vague.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted July 04, 2015 04:09 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
sorry if it's been answered already, but does natures revenge only work with Sylvan creatures? it's a bit vague.
Let's take a look at the description:
Novice: Every enemy target creature of default attacks or activated abilities from the creatures of the controlling hero receives one "mark". Creatures have +4 attack while attacking for every mark on the target.
It doesn't specify "Sylvan" creatures in the army of the controlling hero, so you could assume that this skill works on every creature the hero happens to have in his/her army. However, I think this will work for Sylvan creatures only. Just like in H6, where the Sanctuary hero can walk over water if he/she is alone or every creature in his/her army is Amphibian. It would be OP if a Sylvan hero in H7 can make non-Sylvan creatures put marks on enemy stacks as well.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted July 04, 2015 05:42 PM |
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Great point guys/gals interesting take on the racial ability.But makes me think if this means that developers are trying to make the Sylvan a heavy offensive race? Because this makes turtling less of a good strategy and have offensive and more so hitting every opposing creature with one of yours so you can benefit from racial ability dmg a must. I think this sort of "hand holding strategy" was tried in ToE with the blood ability for orcs, of which I was never a huge fan off.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 04, 2015 08:55 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
It would be OP if a Sylvan hero in H7 can make non-Sylvan creatures put marks on enemy stacks as well.
How would having it on other creatures be any more OP then it existing in the first place?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 04, 2015 08:58 PM |
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Really hope any creature can use it. Never liked the H6 (and 5) of forcing you to use the heroes' faction units, stopping replayability and depth.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 04, 2015 11:18 PM |
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted July 05, 2015 01:31 AM |
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Hey Marzhin, if you are there can you answer this question? Constructs (golems, gargoyles, colossi), fellow sprites, Treants... plus potentially the entire Necropolis faction (with particular attention to skeletons and Grim Riders)... They do not sneeze or cough, so how will the Sprite get no retaliation versus them if I may ask? Since in their description of them it states one of the reasons they have no retaliation is because they spread ''Pixie Dust'' A.K.A pollen at enemies so they sneeze and cough. What about the creatures mentioned above?
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Adilmaru
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 05, 2015 02:44 AM |
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leiah2 said:
Hey Marzhin, if you are there can you answer this question? Constructs (golems, gargoyles, colossi), fellow sprites, Treants... plus potentially the entire Necropolis faction (with particular attention to skeletons and Grim Riders)... They do not sneeze or cough, so how will the Sprite get no retaliation versus them if I may ask? Since in their description of them it states one of the reasons they have no retaliation is because they spread ''Pixie Dust'' A.K.A pollen at enemies so they sneeze and cough. What about the creatures mentioned above?
You are overthinking, mate! It is only a game... Use your IMAGINATION! 
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted July 05, 2015 02:49 AM |
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leiah2 said:
Hey Marzhin, if you are there can you answer this question? Constructs (golems, gargoyles, colossi), fellow sprites, Treants... plus potentially the entire Necropolis faction (with particular attention to skeletons and Grim Riders)... They do not sneeze or cough, so how will the Sprite get no retaliation versus them if I may ask? Since in their description of them it states one of the reasons they have no retaliation is because they spread ''Pixie Dust'' A.K.A pollen at enemies so they sneeze and cough. What about the creatures mentioned above?
Gameplay and Story Segregation
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 05, 2015 09:17 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Really hope any creature can use it. Never liked the H6 (and 5) of forcing you to use the heroes' faction units, stopping replayability and depth.
I disagree actually. Not only from a balance perspective, but also because of immersion. The skill is called "Nature's Revenge", and if you can hire a Sylvan hero and then equip him with Skeletons and Vampires and have them apply marks of nature, it seems really silly to me.
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What will happen now?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 05, 2015 10:19 AM |
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that's just lore reasoning and you know what i think about lore reasoning getting in the way of gameplay.
If i want to use "nature's revenge" with a stronghold army, i should be able to use "nature's revenge" with a stronghold army as long as i get a Sylvan hero. That would just raises the skill ceiling without raising the skill floor, which is exactly what should be aimed for. If a faction gets unbalanced by this it's a fault with the skill, not the faction.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 05, 2015 10:50 AM |
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I'm with alcibiades on racials, they should only effect your own faction units. To me it's more of "balance" -matter part though. I always disliked that morale penalty for mixed armies was so small it didn't even really matter as it was so easy to counter. Now you can even completely take that penalty away with simple novice ability. Nature's revenge would be really easy skill to abuse by having aoe and multi-attack units form your army.
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