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Layn
Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
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posted July 23, 2015 10:25 PM |
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Stevie said:
My question to you miss is why did people there okay such disconnected art styles, and this kind of art direction in general? Surely you MUST know about the Townscreens and all their problems (even technical), right? Surely you MUST know we have been so disappointed about that to the point we started [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40500&pagenumber=1]a thread of its own[/url] on that issue, right? Surely you MUST know that the creature concept arts sometimes do not reflect the 3D models (for better or for worse), right? And surely you MUST know that there has been significant feedback from the community and red flags raised along the way in regards to many specific things, so that it's not like these were subtle little issues that went unnoticed, right?
oh we absolutely know. There's a lot of things you bring up and all have their own reasons, and i think most of them need to be explored in a proper internal post-mortem (morbid word, but it's what it's called). As a developer you have to embrace player feedback and yet also hesitate and consider. Try to sort out widely ranging feedback and figure out what works for all, what works with what we have, what do we even have time for? And how do we incorporate the feedback without losing ourselves in a muddled mess of ideas stuck in development hell? Ultimately however i'm just a tech artist doing my small part of the whole, and that doesn't make me exactly privy to the decision-making.
Basically we definitely know the concerns that many share (and many don't in some cases!) and as far as i know (and can hear from the designers corner  ) they are being continually discussed.
Stevie said:
I mean, you had perfectly good Compendium art in the form of [url=http://i.imgur.com/kYZNr6O.jpg?1]this badass predator[/url] and you exchanged it for [url=https://ubistatic-a.akamaihd.net/0004/prod/images/units/sylvan/PIC_creature_sylvan_bladedancer_upg_artwork_large.jpg]this old child molesting geezer[/url]?
some things you mention are a matter of taste. I for one really dislike that first piece of concept art and vastly prefer the new one (not love it, but then again, sylvan. pssshh. Fortress forever!). People in the wider fan community are pretty divided on that too, even if it might not seem like that to you. Sometimes we've got a perfect alignment, where concepter, artist, director, product owner and fan all agree, sometimes it fails for a link in the chain with different results. Most unfortunate when it's the fan who dislikes it.
Elvin said:
@Layn
You are pretty open, I like that. It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face  Anyone with me?
The problem is that if anything gets done, something else won't. Same as with Vampire and Lich.
The_green_drag said:
+1 personally I just hate the minimum effort put towards the dragons in general. Why is asking for a fresh model of a dragon so hard? They all resemble the h6 dragon in some way and it's irritating to see beloved creatures being stepped on
it really surprised us that you thought so, because it was designed and made completely from scratch. This one was solely inspired by the concept painting of Sylanna and then developed from there.
I really should check at some point if the things i write here are okay. Don't want to accidentally reveal Dungeon or worse reveal our secret handshake!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 23, 2015 10:31 PM |
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Layn said:
I really should check at some point if the things i write here are okay. Don't want to accidentally reveal Dungeon or worse reveal our secret handshake!
not to worry Layn, your old pal Erwin from Ubisoft says it's OK lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 23, 2015 10:34 PM |
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Layn said:
it really surprised us that you thought so, because it was designed and made completely from scratch. This one was solely inspired by the concept painting of Sylanna and then developed from there.
But animations and skeletons certainly looks a lot like the Kirin. I get that the model is new, but is the skeleton/rig new? If it is, i don't really know what to say. Defensive, landlocked dragon doesn't feel like it should be so serpentine.
appreciate you coming in here. What have you done on the townscreens BTW? Building visibility is a pretty pressing matter if that's something you could do something about (given the time/resources of course)
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2015 10:37 PM |
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The Light Dragon was in the beta files so that won't be much of a surprise.
Anyway I don't think people are complaining about the Green Dragon except for the upgrade but the Skeleton Dragon and probably Black Dragon being recolours of the H6 model.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted July 23, 2015 10:46 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
But animations and skeletons certainly looks a lot like the Kirin. I get that the model is new, but is the skeleton/rig new?
The animations for these units were done from scratch. Marzhin told that a few weeks ago, even on this forum I think.
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Layn
Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
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posted July 23, 2015 10:49 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
But animations and skeletons certainly looks a lot like the Kirin. I get that the model is new, but is the skeleton/rig new? If it is, i don't really know what to say. Defensive, landlocked dragon doesn't feel like it should be so serpentine.
Nope, completely new. The reason it's a serpentine kind of Dragon is because that's what Sylanna is. It's somewhat unusual, true, but not unheard of
kiryu133 said:
appreciate you coming in here. What have you done on the townscreens BTW? Building visibility is a pretty pressing matter if that's something you could do something about (given the time/resources of course)
Mostly ambience stuff as well as fires, smoke, glows and such. That said while i think i did my best in the previous ones, now i'm actively paying attention to building visibility. There's only so much you can do though as forcing something on a picture that shouldn't have it, can be awkward, and at some point you become so obsessed that you start seeing visibility issues everywhere SPECIALLY when there is none.
Btw. i might post less starting tomorrow. I kinda lose focus whenever i'm trying to formulate a post and that's not ideal. Won't be gone though. I'll probably still post more than is good for me
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 23, 2015 11:19 PM |
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Layn said:
kiryu133 said:
But animations and skeletons certainly looks a lot like the Kirin. I get that the model is new, but is the skeleton/rig new? If it is, i don't really know what to say. Defensive, landlocked dragon doesn't feel like it should be so serpentine.
Nope, completely new. The reason it's a serpentine kind of Dragon is because that's what Sylanna is. It's somewhat unusual, true, but not unheard of
It is very similar... good to know it's completely new though.
kiryu133 said:
appreciate you coming in here. What have you done on the townscreens BTW? Building visibility is a pretty pressing matter if that's something you could do something about (given the time/resources of course)
Mostly ambience stuff as well as fires, smoke, glows and such. That said while i think i did my best in the previous ones, now i'm actively paying attention to building visibility. There's only so much you can do though as forcing something on a picture that shouldn't have it, can be awkward, and at some point you become so obsessed that you start seeing visibility issues everywhere SPECIALLY when there is none.
AS far as i'm concerned, there are too many points of light and stuff in the screens. kinda distracting. Don't know the originals so i'm assuming you're doing a good job nonetheless. seems that way at least.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 23, 2015 11:33 PM |
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Layn said:
Btw. i might post less starting tomorrow. I kinda lose focus whenever i'm trying to formulate a post and that's not ideal. Won't be gone though. I'll probably still post more than is good for me
Understandable. We do appreciate visibility (of the devs, I mean ) here, though, even though discussions sometimes get heated. I know most people appreciate Marzhin's contributions here, too.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 23, 2015 11:39 PM |
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Sometimes get heated? That seems to be an understatement these days.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 23, 2015 11:42 PM |
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Maurice said:
Layn said:
Btw. i might post less starting tomorrow. I kinda lose focus whenever i'm trying to formulate a post and that's not ideal. Won't be gone though. I'll probably still post more than is good for me
Understandable. We do appreciate visibility (of the devs, I mean ) here, though, even though discussions sometimes get heated. I know most people appreciate Marzhin's contributions here, too.
hear, hear!
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted July 24, 2015 12:26 AM |
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Gryphs said:
Sometimes get heated? That seems to be an understatement these days.
Understatement only? Repeat that at my face again if want to get slapped by a panda, bizarre bird!
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted July 24, 2015 01:13 AM |
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Layn said:
kiryu133 said:
But animations and skeletons certainly looks a lot like the Kirin. I get that the model is new, but is the skeleton/rig new? If it is, i don't really know what to say. Defensive, landlocked dragon doesn't feel like it should be so serpentine.
Nope, completely new. The reason it's a serpentine kind of Dragon is because that's what Sylanna is. It's somewhat unusual, true, but not unheard of
It's just strange then because I looked at Sylanna as much more bulky and not like a Kirin at all. Her description also lead me to think this way. I really liked Sylvanna's art and was looking forward to the green/emerald dragons but was pretty disappointed by their appearance. The idea of turning them into a slower, wingless dragon was cool before I saw they looked so serpentine. 
Since everything is new about them, I guess I don't understand the point in making brand new models and animations that resemble a creature from the game that has already contributed too much as it is.
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 24, 2015 02:40 AM |
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It's kind of funny - the vote that wins is Fast and Furious but now I'm getting a "slow, unstoppable march of the forest" vibe.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted July 24, 2015 03:22 AM |
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I do have to say thank you to Layn and the development team for making this game and answering our questions. I did also enjoy the beta and I can't wait for the next one.
After seeing the new lich and vampire I am even more sad that necropolis did not win the vote. 
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted July 24, 2015 05:58 AM |
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I know I'm probably not that popular, but given that the article days tend to be Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, should we try to push for Dungeon reveal on Monday on account of my birthday? 
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted July 24, 2015 07:53 AM |
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Do you really think we will see Dungeon before Gamescom?
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted July 24, 2015 08:51 AM |
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Avonu said:
Do you really think we will see Dungeon before Gamescom?
Well, it should be. The question is if it will be presented.
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Layn
Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
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posted July 24, 2015 08:56 AM |
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Edited by Layn at 08:57, 24 Jul 2015.
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Avonu said:
Do you really think we will see Dungeon before Gamescom?
*shrug* i have no idea. But I am super curious what you all think about the faction.
Anyone going to be at Gamescom? Most of my coworkers will be busy working on heroes 7, but i'll be around the halls on the 5. (wednesday)
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted July 24, 2015 09:18 AM |
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I never liked Dungeon much. Unless you count on Heroes 2 Warlock faction, which I used to play more often than not, or the Asylum in H4 - although I seemed to enjoy more the good array of neutral units aligned with Asylum as well. But I completely lost interest since H5, when it started meddling with dark elves. I liked playing with the heroes, but the units were pretty much uninteresting to my taste.
So far, this new Dungeon doesn't spark any sort of curiosity whatsoever.
Now that I stop to think a bit about it, I'm not sure if there's any faction I could say that I liked in H7. Maybe a bit Academy.
Now Dungeon? No, no. ^^ Just be sure not to color code these units purple or anything, or people will rage like a storm. ^^ I'm neither here nor there with these designs now (still, I daresay hydras must be the units I liked the design the most, at least in artwork fashion. Only God knows how it'll look like when rendered ...).
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted July 24, 2015 09:18 AM |
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Layn said:
Anyone going to be at Gamescom? Most of my coworkers will be busy working on heroes 7, but i'll be around the halls on the 5. (wednesday)
Sadly I won't be at Gamescom either this year. Too much work on my secret project.
#ShamelessTeasing
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
