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| Thread: MMH7 Initiative System |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT» |
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted October 09, 2014 10:54 AM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 12 Oct 2014. |
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Poll Question:
MMH7 Initiative System
Erwan mentioned in his latest interview that the initiative system for MMH7 is yet to be decided. Personally I am torn and see pros and cons with both systems, but I'm interested to know what everyone's thoughts are on the matter.
Vote below and then please tell us why you think that initiative system is better. I'm using the last 2 games for the voting buttons for simplicity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBkZcJLkAk - link to the afforementioned interview for those that haven't seen it
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 10:59 AM |
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i dont remember how exactly they work, but i was a bit confused with h5 system. didnt voted yet. i hope someone will explain to me differances.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 11:03 AM |
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Why's there no Heroes 3 option? 
I liked the Heroes 5 system precisely because it wasn't divided in turns. The ATB made the fight feel really continuous while still preserving turn base strategy in the form of creature's turns. There were some issues yes, but the underlying idea was very good imo. An upgraded Heroes 5 ATB system would be my choice.
Also, the ATB system can be affected and modified by skills/perks for both heroes turn and creatures turn, whereas in a fixed turn by turn there are a lot more limited options.
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted October 09, 2014 11:05 AM |
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cleglaw said:
i dont remember how exactly they work, but i was a bit confused with h5 system. didnt voted yet. i hope someone will explain to me differances.
If you aren't sure then my suggestion would be not to bother with reading an explanation but refresh yourself instead. Reading and understanding are 2 different beasts.
____________
Magic Bird, only a working
title. Phew
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted October 09, 2014 12:37 PM |
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I've been thinking about it a bit and at this stage I'm probably leaning towards a H5 style initiative system. My reason why is that it allows more play room when it comes to creature creation, individuality and faction gameplay.
The first thing that comes to mind and the example I'm going to use are H5s Blood Furies and Deep Hydra.
The Deep Hydra was a level 5 creature that had regeneration, no retaliation to it's attacks, could attack everything around it and just for good measure they had enrage as well. I had so much fun using them but they weren't over powered in the least bit because their initiative was so slow that in between turns the blood furies were able to attack 3 times or so before the Hydra went again. It was insane, and the Furies were brutal doing huge amounts of damage running back and forth across the battlefield for the short period of time that they managed to stay alive for.
While it was painful waiting for the Hydras next turn, it allowed for them to be very strong for a level 5 creature, but it also meant that certain spells were more important. Spells that come to mind are Haste and Slow.
Haste in H6 gave a creature increased initiative AND increased movement points. It had to add movement as well as increased initiative because it was no longer as useful as it used to be. Affecting the initiative of creatures in the previous system was a lot more important than it was in H6 because in 6 you know that a creature is still going to have a go that turn.
Finally how it affects an individual Hero. Using magic would have a negative impact on a Heros initiative which adds another aspect of the game that can be tweaked to make each faction play slightly different. The H5 Academy I believe it was had abilities to reduce the amount your initiative was reduced after casting a spell which helps to make you appreciate that they are the masters of the arcane.
I'm all for making each faction playing differently and I think that the H5 style initiative system allows for that to happen easier. Tell me if you disagree, I'm sure Ubi will be interested to know what the wider Heroes Community thinks when making their final decision on what initiative system to implement.
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Magic Bird, only a working
title. Phew
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 12:43 PM |
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H5 ATB bar indeed. It makes the battle flow, and makes it more exciting.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted October 09, 2014 01:02 PM |
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I'm kind of partial to the H6 system.
Currently we assume the battlemap will be bigger so traditionally slower units like the hydra or treant are going to be screwed very badly, even more so then in H5.
Also, I would rather not have another way for developers to try and complcate things. The less options to mess the game up the less time it takes to balance it properly.
1 unit = 1 turn = 1 action
Keep it simple.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 01:18 PM |
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H5 had a much better flow in battle, so I'd take that system with some tweaks (like less randomess).
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 09, 2014 01:19 PM |
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Nocturnal said:
H5 ATB bar indeed. It makes the battle flow, and makes it more exciting.
You probably mean "more irritating"...
No, I have always been an opponent of the H5 initiative system: it's confusing, irritating, and prone to overuse by the AI. While AI can also cheat with morale and luck, it's restricted by the fact that a unit may move max two times a turn. H6 system was a traditional one, but the abundance of healing spells made battles slow (players were playing more defensively), and that's probably the reason why people want the H5 system back.
I'm more of the slow and steady type. I prefer strategy over the speed of battle. How can you call a game strategic, when a Hell Steed plows through your Gargoyles in a 3 (at least) to 1 move turn ratio? What's the point of such slow units then? The absence of hexes makes them useless even for a blocker unit. If devs will pull it off in H7, battles will be more strategic because battlefields will be more irregular and more about positioning, and that will probably make even battles for mines a bit more entertaining...
I voted neither, as I like to see a system that is traditional to the core, with less but more useful spells (H4 had a good spells system, though it also had a few "dead" spells), with a more strategic side, and with healing options limited (I prefer reducing casualties with strategy, not with overuse of healing spells).
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted October 09, 2014 01:22 PM |
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H5 system was unique but seriusly imbalanced. The unit balance would have to be badly redesigned for it to work. H1-4+6 it is for me.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted October 09, 2014 01:50 PM |
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Voted H5.
What i didn't like in H6 was that Hero could attack or use magic with each creature turn.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 09, 2014 01:58 PM |
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As I said in the discussion thread, I think H5-initiative deserves another iteration. Sure in H5 it was badly done (slow units never had an action -.-), but I think with better init. values it'd work better.
However, I can't forget that it can also be irritating because you can't really predict enemy movements - or even yours! - so it may lose strategy.
I can't decide right now
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 02:03 PM |
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Wellplay said:
Voted H5.
What i didn't like in H6 was that Hero could attack or use magic with each creature turn.
I am not sure I understand this? You mean, like in every game so far?
H5 also had turns, just like H3 and H6 had, but some creatures or heroes could play multiple times per turn because of the initiative system.
You could only attack or use magic once per turn with hero in H6 as far as I know. It was the same mechanic as in H3, but you also could attack instead of casting spells.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 02:47 PM |
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Definitely leaning towards the old school initiative system.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted October 09, 2014 03:03 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Wellplay said:
Voted H5.
What i didn't like in H6 was that Hero could attack or use magic with each creature turn.
I am not sure I understand this? You mean, like in every game so far?
H5 also had turns, just like H3 and H6 had, but some creatures or heroes could play multiple times per turn because of the initiative system.
You could only attack or use magic once per turn with hero in H6 as far as I know. It was the same mechanic as in H3, but you also could attack instead of casting spells.
What i mean is in H5 Hero had his own turn and portrait for it.
But in H6 his turn was coming with each allie creature turn.
What enabled hurting enemy with hero attack than u used creature.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 03:13 PM |
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Question for those who favor the HoMM 5 system:
If there are no turns - how long do spells and effects last (buffs, debuffs)?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 09, 2014 03:18 PM |
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I'd swear turns still exist?
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 03:18 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Question for those who favor the HoMM 5 system:
If there are no turns - how long do spells and effects last (buffs, debuffs)?
There were turns in H5, you can see it when you click at unit status how long something lasts but it was pretty complicated system because of initiative, ATB bar etc.
Just because system wasn't perfect in H5, it doesn't mean that they can't rework it and make it a lot better.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 03:20 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Question for those who favor the HoMM 5 system:
If there are no turns - how long do spells and effects last (buffs, debuffs)?
Booo.. He so just blew our minds with this one. We just got locked all up boyz.
I dunno, how did H5 do things?
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Moriak71
Hired Hero
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posted October 09, 2014 03:26 PM |
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fuChris said:
I'm kind of partial to the H6 system.
Currently we assume the battlemap will be bigger so traditionally slower units like the hydra or treant are going to be screwed very badly, even more so then in H5.
Also, I would rather not have another way for developers to try and complcate things. The less options to mess the game up the less time it takes to balance it properly.
1 unit = 1 turn = 1 action
Keep it simple.
I agree with you sir...1 unit = 1 turn = 1 action.
And I also like that you can cast your spell anytime, instead of an exact point in one round.
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