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Caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 09:28 PM |
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Edited by Caracal at 22:45, 01 Nov 2014.
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jackson said:
I really think we should leave Nightmares for Inferno. This is just my opinion and I'm not trying to insult Inferno fans, but I think Inferno struggles with its line-up, which is ironic given that there are so many great and diverse mythological demons. But, unfortunately, Ubi seems reluctant to dive into mythological demons, and other than the staples, seems to insist on offering their own generic creations such as the Maniac. I think Inferno's line-up has a lot of potential but I don't have faith that Ubi will fulfill that potential. Having said that, if we realign Nightmares so that they're with Dungeon, the odds of having them in Inferno will be close to zero, but if we don't introduce them in Dungeon, then it's very possible we'll see them in Inferno. So whether or not they fit Dungeon isn't my main concern. My concern is that they fit better in Inferno and I'd much rather see them there.
Jackson I wouldn't worry about repeating concepts in different towns. After all it was said that medusae are renegade coral priestesses so there is absolutely possible to have two horse units in two towns. After all in H5 we had 3. Cavalier, unicorn and hell steeds. I don't see reason why they wouldn't do it again.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 01, 2014 09:57 PM |
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Percentages of Shield are going up, it's at 24% now.
Faces is at 46% and Blade at 30%.
Line-up votes move much more then factions do. It seems.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 09:59 PM |
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Wait until we get some more info on the new creatures. Then we will probably see even bigger movements 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 01, 2014 10:01 PM |
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I dunno there, Steyn. Last time, the artworks didn't do that much or it had a realy slow effect.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 10:18 PM |
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Hmm, I was under the impression that the bladedancer artwork signed the victory for fury, but of course I can be mistaken.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 01, 2014 10:20 PM |
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Fury was already in the high percentages, IIRC. But then, we don't know when the percentages became flawed back then.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted November 01, 2014 10:24 PM |
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Steyn said:
Hmm, I was under the impression that the bladedancer artwork signed the victory for fury, but of course I can be mistaken.
Agreed, from what I read it seemed that many people were really impressed with the blade dancers artwork
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Magic Bird, only a working
title. Phew
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 10:31 PM |
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How to Improve the three Lineups
Blades from the Shadows
The only problem I have with this is that it has Hydras stronger than Faceless. Wtf? Faceless are suppose to be the equivalent to Angels. This lineup suffers from Devs listening to fans too much. They sacrifice quality. Also, Shadow Unicorns? WTF? Something tells me, they are making it up for Sylvan fans who lost their unicorns. The other problems are bad naming conventions.
Here's my proposal:
1. Assassin/Rogue
2. Fury/Blood Fury (if female), Blood Brother/Bloodblade (if male)
3. Beholder/Evil Eye (this is such a good name. Why replace it with something common?)
4. Minotaur/Minotaur Guard
5. Ladon/Hyrdra
6. Raptor/Deinonychus
7. Shadow Dragon/Black Dragon
8. Faceless/Faceless Puppeteer
Malassa's Thousand Feces - Medusas suck. They are basically Coral Priestesses in a different faction. If they want a female caster, they should've sticked with Witch/Matriarchs. That way, you keep each faction original. Sigh, they're listening to fans too much, they are sacrificing creativity, and their own lore. Oh and Strider/Soulless would be good if they are earth elementals rather than a second golem.
Here's my proposal:
1. Assassin/Rogue
2. Troglodyte/Chthonian
3. Bandit/Thief (just replacing the bad naming convention: Stalker/Tracker)
4. Minotaur/Minotaur Guard
5. Strider/Soulless
6. Witch/Matriarch
7. Shadow Dragon/Black Dragon
8. Ladon/Hydra
Shield of Darkness - if Soulless are earth elementals instead of a Golem copycat, this would be the closest-to-ok lineup. I'd rather have Faceless than Soulless though. This lineup would lack the "aura of magic", something Dungeon is suppose to specialize in.
Here's my proposal:
1. Troglodyte/Chthonian
2. Bandit/Thief
3. Beholder/Evil Eye
4. Minotaur/Minotaur Guard
5. Ladon/Hydra
6. Manticore/Scorpicore
7. Shadow Dragon/Black Dragon
8. Faceless/Faceless Puppeteer
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 01, 2014 10:55 PM |
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Danny said:
alcibiades said:
Stormcaller said:
But seriously, shadow, unicorns???? Cmon, that's an asspull unit. Oh well, at least 1000 faces line-up should win then.
I agree that Shadow Unicorn is a ridiculously bad name, but if we look past that, the concept of a black horse associated with terror and nightmares is a pretty good match with Dungeon. I do think the Inferno match in H5 was a more natural fit, but still, it could work well if the style was done in the right way.
But Nightmare was first introduced in Heroes IV where it was part of the Asylum lineup that is the predecessor to Dungeon, in Heroes V it was moved to Inferno not to repeat the exact same lineup of Heroes III Inferno so I disagree about the natural fit. If it makes it into the game then it would be a retcon of course, like how Rakshasa is beast-man now and not a "vengeful spirit".
Hmm well I try to forget everything that was H4, especially Infernopolis, so let's not go there. What I had in mind was actually the fact that in "traditional" lore (like Magic the Gathering, DnD, etc.) the Nightmare is a horse with fiery wings/hoofs which is why it seems a more natural fit in Inferno than Dungeon for me, when it comes to looks at least.
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What will happen now?
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 01, 2014 11:01 PM |
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Caracal said:
Jackson I wouldn't worry about repeating concepts in different towns. After all it was said that medusae are renegade coral priestesses so there is absolutely possible to have two horse units in two towns. After all in H5 we had 3. Cavalier, unicorn and hell steeds. I don't see reason why they wouldn't do it again.
Those were different units. If we put Nightmares in Dungeon and later Inferno is introduced, then Nightmares won't be in Inferno. If we don't put Nightmares in Dungeon and later Inferno is introduced, then it's very possible we'll see Nightmares in Inferno.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 01, 2014 11:09 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Hmm well I try to forget everything that was H4, especially Infernopolis, so let's not go there.
no offense, but I don't think that's a very constructive viewpoint, lol
Heroes 4 did some cool things, it's still very much part of the franchise
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 01, 2014 11:17 PM |
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Daaaw. It finally happened. There's a vote that isn't going to go my way.
Srysly people. What's the deal? Shield of Darkness is easily the coolest line up. There is objective proof to it: they have manticores and those evil construct thingies and troglodytes. It's like a tank version of Dungeon. 
Thousand Faces has gotta be the next best option. I'm really not in the mood for another chemically imbalanced Dungeon that shoots ICBMs at people but dies in like 2 seconds. I'd like final duels to last more than 10 rounds. Ty ty.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 11:21 PM |
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Would anyone else find it hilarious if the results changed over the week to make Blades and Shield the second-round choices, with Faces being eliminated? 
Don't get me wrong, I'm leaning towards Faces as my alternate choice after Shield, but it seems so counter expectations that it would be amusing to me.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 11:38 PM |
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^ That would actually be great. Faces has those horrid Medusas. Blades has Faceless for elites instead of Champions.
Shield is the only acceptable option.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 01, 2014 11:50 PM |
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Kimarous said:
Would anyone else find it hilarious if the results changed over the week to make Blades and Shield the second-round choices, with Faces being eliminated?
Don't get me wrong, I'm leaning towards Faces as my alternate choice after Shield, but it seems so counter expectations that it would be amusing to me.
It seems that most of the people switched from Faces to Shield, since Faces dropped from ~50% to 46% while Blade didn't lose much, and Shield went up by ~5%.
I wish we end up with 30-35-35 or something like that.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:03 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
I wish we end up with 30-35-35 or something like that.
or 34-33-33.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 02, 2014 12:48 AM |
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Shield has gotten up to 24%
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:22 AM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
3. Beholder/Evil Eye (this is such a good name. Why replace it with something common?)
At some point in 2000s Wizards of The Coast copyrighted the beholder, because it was a iconic creature (for D&D) that had been created solely for D&D (first appearance in some published adventure in 1975).
You can have beholder-like creatures, but you have to alter and rename them.
The problem for me with the name Evil Eye is that it not so much a creature in mythology or fantasy, but rather a ability/power/spell.
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 02:11 AM |
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Edited by Lokheit at 02:24, 02 Nov 2014.
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Honestly, I think they screwed this one:
GENERAL ISSUES:
- There is no champion diversity to spice each lineup pros and cons.
- Linked with the previous point, but there is no Faceless as Champion. Faceless are described as the equivalent of Angels. Haven Champion unit isn't even 100% Angel, but the only time you see Faceless is as Elite instead of Champion. That makes zero sense.
- Many fan favorite units appear only once (and will dissappear if their lineup loses) and then they put stuff like the Strider on multiple lineups...
- Apparently they completly screwed Hydras after forcing them as Champions on every lineup. They have life drain instead of regeneration (Hydras regenerate, Vampires suck blood, know your creatures guys) and in their description they mention that they have no flanks, but nothing about multi-strike ability is mentioned (not sure if it's because they think it would be OP with life drain... which again, shouldn't be there).
- Personally I prefered H5 approach to Minotaurs: High Morale and Double Attack. They don't strike me as monsters fast enough to hit before being attacked or avoid retaliation. Double Attack made much more sense, they aren't supposed to be agile creatures, just brutal.
- I want to know a bit more about the Strider before judgement. If it's just a dark golem then "meh", if it's something in the lines of WH40K Dark Eldar constructs it could be cool, though I'd like it to be "sentient" to differentiate them from Academy units.
THE BLADE FROM THE SHADOWS:
- This one has plenty of problems from a gameplay perspective, but there is one big lore issue that makes me automatically vote whatever is needed to eliminate this one: Faceless as Elite. For reasons stated above, if they're in, they should be Champion. Being Elite while a half-Angel is Champion is insulting and I prefer them as NPCs if they won't be Champions.
- Shadow Unicorn... I mean, come on, the fact that people wanted to save Unicorns on the Sylvan vote doesn't mean that you should put random Unicorns on a different lineup to please them, this doesn't make sense.
- The faction gets too repetitive on what their units do (2 hit and run, 2 teleporters...). Ability diversity helps spice things and make the faction more enjoyable.
- Strategy wise, all that hit and run and teleport sounds great... except that apparently it comes at the cost of being really fragile. You don't want fragile units teleporting through walls just to get stomped.
- The 2 elves in the core section sounds too similar to each other even if their skills are different. Melee walkers. Elves killing you with blades.
MALASSA'S THOUSAND FACES:
- Strategy wise, I like the Elite section a lot, with a damage dealer with great skills for the frontline (even if as stated I don't think Minotaurs should have that kind of skills), a melee debuffer and a ranged spellcaster unit.
- I'm not really convinced by the Assassin backstab speciality. It's a game mechanic that could end up being too cheesy or broken and making a unit specialize on it doesn't sound good. I would prefer the core section if they got either the Lurker or the hit and run guy (btw I've read a suggestion about making the Lurker the faction ballista if this lineup wins and I would like it).
- I have some problems with the Medusa to be honest. It's really a Naga, it doesn't even petrify, it's stated she mesmerizes her opponents instead. I think I would've liked a proper sorceress/matriarch over a creature that belongs to a different faction and that isn't even a real Medusa as it can't petrify.
- I want to know if Troglodytes Burrowing ability means they can through obstacles and castle walls (like teleport) as it would make a BIG difference for this lineup, which would only get another unit able to pass walls if they pick Black Dragons.
THE SHIELD OF DARKNESS:
- I really like the core section of this lineup. A ranged damage dealer, a debuff based shooter and a tank to get into the way of approaching opponents. Great balance here for the core section.
- But then, I think it has the most boring Elite units. Even if only one creature changes from "Faces" the result is completly different. They're all melee creatures that can get some heat, but their role seems to similar (1 pure damage, 2 melee debuffers). I guess the idea was to make a wall for the core shooters or something, but sounds a bit boring for this kind of faction, plus even if multiple core shooters is great for early game, I prefer 1 core shooter + 1 elite shooter over 2 core shooters.
CONCLUSSION
Right now I'm focused on trying to eliminate the "Blade" lineup to make sure it can't win in any scenario so I would probably switch my current vote to the one that could be eliminated if it helps removing "Blade".
Overal I prefer the "Faces" lineup because it sounds like the most diverse and fun to play despite my doubts about Assassin's effectivity and Medusas being fake Medusas.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 02:51 AM |
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the coral priestesses were fake medusas. afawk the actual medusa could have powers to actually petrify
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This thread is pages long: 
