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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 02, 2014 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 11:14, 02 Nov 2014.
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Elvin said:
I'd have a hard time imagining a blade dancer going face to face with a kensei to be honest..
Haha !
That's again I guess the problem with this new tier system. IIRC from H6, Kensei would correspond to tier 6, while I would expect Blade dancer to be tier 4.
I hope we will see more difference between units strength within tiers in MMH7.
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Kurush
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 11:25 AM |
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Edited by Kurush at 11:28, 02 Nov 2014.
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Elvin said:
I'd have a hard time imagining a blade dancer going face to face with a kensei to be honest..
Well, go play MMX.
But seriously, both have swords and martial arts, Kensei is bigger and stronger, Bladedancer is swifter and his arts are more badass.
I'd say they're pretty much equal.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 02, 2014 11:35 AM |
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Kimarous said:
So long as they don't look like a palette swap of the Academy golem, all is well in my eyes.
In Heroes VI era they understood that repeated unit models were a bad idea and such thing won't be repeated during Heroes VII. Maybe they will resemble an armour from picture from a few pages earlier? Let's hope so.
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted November 02, 2014 11:36 AM |
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Shambell said:
Also on Medusae, the description of the Staff of the Tides:
Quote:
As Asha herself, all the Dragon-Gods have several aspects. Shalassa is no exception: she can be the benevolent sea, the source of life… but she can also be the furious waves of destruction. This second aspect of Shalassa, the Wrecker, is considered to be a heresy in the Naga Empire and its worship is thereby forbidden. However, it happens that some Pearl Priestesses hear the dark call of the Wrecker coming from the depths of the ocean and are tempted to become its servant. When their heresy is discovered, those renegade Pearl Priestesses are banished from the Naga lands. They become known as Medusae, dangerous creatures living in remote islands and sunken ruins. While Medusae are known to be solitary, they occasionally join pirate crews, or unite to form small sects dedicated to the Wrecker. They can then join their powers to summon tsunamis and tempests to destroy merchant ships and even small coastal villages.
So Medusae are Naga Outcast worshipping a destructive aspect of Shalassa...
I see why they could be neutral but I don't know how they would fit inside Dungeon.
The meduase in dungeon are not the same as the ones of wrecker cult, they originate from there but are probably different considering they worship another dragon.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 02, 2014 11:50 AM |
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Elvin said:
I'd have a hard time imagining a blade dancer going face to face with a kensei to be honest..
Well that's unfair because a Kensei is an elite Naga while Blade Dancer was only core Elf, if we mix H5 and H6 terminology a bit. You could pitch a Druid against a Pearl Priestess and the outcome would probably go the other way.
WarOverlord said:
Please tell me what the strenghts of Humans are, as opposed to the Dwarves, Elves and Naga? Because all I can come up with is numbers. Effectively, from what I can see is that Humans are the Goblins of the Elder Races, they're inferior, but there are so damn many of them.
Versatility for one thing? An unarmed human may not be a match for an unarmed naga, but put the human on a horse with a lance, and things might turn the other way. And now in H7 we even get super-human Swordbearers who I guess can take down any of the other races in 1:1 match-up, so ... 
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What will happen now?
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Kurush
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:10 PM |
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Edited by Kurush at 12:11, 02 Nov 2014.
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blizz said:
Shambell said:
Also on Medusae, the description of the Staff of the Tides:
Quote:
As Asha herself, all the Dragon-Gods have several aspects. Shalassa is no exception: she can be the benevolent sea, the source of life… but she can also be the furious waves of destruction. This second aspect of Shalassa, the Wrecker, is considered to be a heresy in the Naga Empire and its worship is thereby forbidden. However, it happens that some Pearl Priestesses hear the dark call of the Wrecker coming from the depths of the ocean and are tempted to become its servant. When their heresy is discovered, those renegade Pearl Priestesses are banished from the Naga lands. They become known as Medusae, dangerous creatures living in remote islands and sunken ruins. While Medusae are known to be solitary, they occasionally join pirate crews, or unite to form small sects dedicated to the Wrecker. They can then join their powers to summon tsunamis and tempests to destroy merchant ships and even small coastal villages.
So Medusae are Naga Outcast worshipping a destructive aspect of Shalassa...
I see why they could be neutral but I don't know how they would fit inside Dungeon.
The meduase in dungeon are not the same as the ones of wrecker cult, they originate from there but are probably different considering they worship another dragon.
They don't have to worship Malassa to be dungeon, Troglodyte is an earth spirit (so it's not necessarily purple!)
And as I said, since the "upgrade" of the bladedancers they can easily take on the Kensei.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:12 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Elvin said:
I'd have a hard time imagining a blade dancer going face to face with a kensei to be honest..
Well that's unfair because a Kensei is an elite Naga while Blade Dancer was only core Elf, if we mix H5 and H6 terminology a bit. You could pitch a Druid against a Pearl Priestess and the outcome would probably go the other way.
You are missing the fact that Blade dancers are now elite, same as Kenseis. 
Quote:
WarOverlord said:
Please tell me what the strenghts of Humans are, as opposed to the Dwarves, Elves and Naga? Because all I can come up with is numbers. Effectively, from what I can see is that Humans are the Goblins of the Elder Races, they're inferior, but there are so damn many of them.
Versatility for one thing? An unarmed human may not be a match for an unarmed naga, but put the human on a horse with a lance, and things might turn the other way. And now in H7 we even get super-human Swordbearers who I guess can take down any of the other races in 1:1 match-up, so ...
If Human needs a Horse to be able to beat Naga 1 on 1, than you are just proving their point, he is inferior.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:17 PM |
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Edited by Darkem at 12:28, 02 Nov 2014.
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Few weeks/month ago we complained that new Ashan lore doesn't allow creators/developers to make big changes in town's lineups like in the 3DO/NWC era. Now, when Ubi seems to think more about politics, hard alliances and changes lineups from "OMG I'm a DARK ELF I need to worship MY DRAGON GOD, I cannot CHANGE!" to "Ok, maybe it would be better for us to cooperate with X to achieve common goal. Let's accept those renegade creatures to our army." we complain that it's "weird".
I have no problems with darkness taking shape of steed/dark unicorn/nightmare (I only need explanation. Even few sentences.).
I have no problems with units changing sides and even worshiping different dragon god.
I have no problems with term "minor spirit of earth (aka Troglodyte)". Isn't it a "ashanish" term created to name dragon god creation that is not its "big" race (like elves, demons, nagas)?
Chill out guys. They have Marzhin in the team. They've learned on the mistakes - they had time for it. They (and unfortunately we also) had H6  .
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Kwarc
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:32 PM |
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This voting make no sense. I must choose if I prefer good strategy with bad set or good set with bad strategy. Why I cannot get offensive Shield of Darkness?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 02, 2014 12:35 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
If Human needs a Horse to be able to beat Naga 1 on 1, than you are just proving their point, he is inferior.
No, I disagree. He may be inferior in plain physical strength, but that's not the entire equation.
Darkem said:
Chill out guys. They have Marzhin in the team. They've learned on the mistakes - they had time for it. They (and unfortunately we also) had H6 .
Apparantly, Marzhin is battling against the windmills here. Obviously they haven't learned from their mistakes. We still get non-random skills. And in this dungeon line-up, the construct seems just as much at home as the Glory did in the H6 haven line-up imo - yet they force it into two line-ups at the expense of creatures like Medusa, Manticore and even one of the few of their own creations that many people actually liked, the Faceless.
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What will happen now?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 02, 2014 12:37 PM |
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Kwarc said:
Why I cannot get offensive Shield of Darkness?
True that both times the "Ubi lineup" "benefits" the "offensive" position.
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Kurush
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 12:37 PM |
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Kwarc said:
This voting make no sense. I must choose if I prefer good strategy with bad set or good set with bad strategy. Why I cannot get offensive Shield of Darkness?
Once again, SHIELD OF DARKNESS HAS THE LEAST WALKERS! (Not counting Trogs)
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 02, 2014 12:56 PM |
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alcibiades said:
We still get non-random skills.
In my humble opinion, the 'non-random' part wasn't the problem. 'Skills' part was. They were broken. We all know that. As long as skills will be interesting, like in Heroes V and even more diverse, lack of randomness is acceptable, I think.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 02, 2014 01:00 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 13:01, 02 Nov 2014.
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Glory was a good concept executed poorly, IMO.
It's difficult to come up with non-human creatures you feel belong in Castle.
Soulless just sounds like a Necro creature, and in a faction that already has the creatively named Faceless no less.
Quote:
Why I cannot get offensive Shield of Darkness?
Because it's not called Sword of Darkness 
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:14 PM |
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wow, 26% another 5% to shield, and we can get rid of blade from the shadows 
1000 faces and shield should colaborate now.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:15 PM |
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War-overlord said:
alcibiades said:
I would say quite opposite, on a basic level the four humanoid races ARE equal in strength. Not identical, in the sense that each has their strengths and their weaknesses, but there's nothing that gives me reason to think that one of the humanoids would come out superior against the others - unlike for instance if you pitched a humanoid against an angel, or a faceless for that matter.
Please tell me what the strenghts of Humans are, as opposed to the Dwarves, Elves and Naga? Because all I can come up with is numbers. Effectively, from what I can see is that Humans are the Goblins of the Elder Races, they're inferior, but there are so damn many of them.
Inventive. What they lack in physical power they make it up in resourcefulness and numbers.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:17 PM |
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Humans obviously have better technology ( not counting dwarves ) numbers, superior armor, weaponary, discipline and so on.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:46 PM |
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If Shield is about to go past Blade at the end of the vote, I will help by changing my vote from Faces to Shield.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 02, 2014 01:50 PM |
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lol so much for people not rigging the vote with new voting system.
____________
What will happen now?
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2014 01:54 PM |
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Edited by Lokheit at 13:55, 02 Nov 2014.
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Darkem said:
Few weeks/month ago we complained that new Ashan lore doesn't allow creators/developers to make big changes in town's lineups like in the 3DO/NWC era. Now, when Ubi seems to think more about politics, hard alliances and changes lineups from "OMG I'm a DARK ELF I need to worship MY DRAGON GOD, I cannot CHANGE!" to "Ok, maybe it would be better for us to cooperate with X to achieve common goal. Let's accept those renegade creatures to our army." we complain that it's "weird".
[...]
Chill out guys. They have Marzhin in the team. They've learned on the mistakes - they had time for it. They (and unfortunately we also) had H6 .
The reason why we said the Ashan lore wouldn't allow them to make big changes is the same reason that if they try we complain that it's weird. If they set the rules and make the world in an specific strict way, if they break the rules it's weird, and the fact that breaking the rules feels weird is what doesn't allow for diversity.
And with all respect to Marzhin and the team, there are already some lore bits that I'm not liking at all.
The one on the top of my head right now that I hope is changed is the Deer unit where the upgrade isn't the unit becoming stronger or getting better equipment but instead one of these scenarios:
- They get a sex change operation/magical spell.
- Every time you upgrade them you kill a female and recruit a male.
It makes zero sense, upgraded units were always supposed to be the same guys acquiring more experience and skills. The way that unit works, changing from female to male instead of getting stronger, makes no sense with what upgrades are supposed to be.
Elvin said:
I'd have a hard time imagining a blade dancer going face to face with a kensei to be honest..
They're both elite now... and now you even have a human with a big sword as champion (which makes him stronger than Elite Faceless, even more insulting than being inferior than a half-angel), technically the stronger representative from any of those 4 races is a human.
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