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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted December 16, 2014 11:22 AM |
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Concerning sci-fi elements of M&M series, I think they were uniqe thing in fantasy games, and I liked them very much. IMO, Forge would be great addition to HoMM3.
As for community involevement in game development, I think Salamandre's posts sum my thoughts exactly.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 16, 2014 03:10 PM |
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Indeed, the sci-fi stuff is part of the M&M games. But the key is that HoM&M games were presented as fantasy only games, and introducing sci-fi stuff halfway through the third entry of the series is simply wrong. I'm not against Forge, but I believe it'd be out of place in the HoM&M series even if just because the majority of players aren't familiar with the M&M series background.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 03:18 PM |
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I'm opposed to sci-fi elements in Heroes. You have faction fighting with bows and swords and Forge with tanks and lasers. Thanks but no thanks.
And why's this thread still Heroes IIII?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 16, 2014 03:22 PM |
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Because Angelito hasn't showed up yet. My HCM is still unread.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 03:22 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 16, 2014 03:25 PM |
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Some hate the idea of Forge enough to continuously rant about it, others love it enough to make it happen.
Haters rest assured, don't expect it from Ubisoft.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 16, 2014 03:26 PM |
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Stevie said:
New Mod or riot. 
Yes, because we are flooded with matured users with free time, right?
Galaad said:
Some hate the idea of Forge enough to continuously rant about it, others love it enough to make it happen.
For me, as a MOD it would be perfect  
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 16, 2014 03:27 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
For me, as a MOD it would be perfect
Hear the wise man ! Optional content to please all
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 03:33 PM |
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Look, people, this is no religious question, so it doesn't matter what you believe or not about whether the Forge would have been good or bad or whatever else for HoMM 3. It also doesn't matter whether you are or have been opposed to or in favor of it, because it doesn't change anything.
Fact is, the devs - who had brought things so far up to the first HoMM 3 expansion - had no problem with it and quite obviously thought they could make a great expansion, at the same time fine-tuning and expanding things.
And the simple truth is that people should have shut the hell up, trust the devs's judgement and WAIT AND SEE.
And if the Forge would have been a dud with very mixed or predominantly negative comments and reviews, THAT cow would have been off the ice, as they say in Germany, and you can imagine that they would have tried all the harder to bring things to a satisfactory conclusion. Who's going to say that they wouldn't have come up with a tenth town to make up for whatever would have been wrong with the Forge?
The way it went, though, they were quite disappointed with things, and so you can imagine that the well for them was poisoned. At the time, it just didn't happen that early sketches, screenshots and so on were published - they could have been quiet about it up to release, but of course no one foresaw the sh1tstorm that went down.
And there people are wondering why developers don't risk anything anymore and most everything is "mainstream".
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 16, 2014 03:41 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 15:44, 16 Dec 2014.
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Stevie said:
I'm opposed to sci-fi elements in Heroes. You have faction fighting with bows and swords and Forge with tanks and lasers.
Yeah, right.
You have factions with creatures shooting laser from their eyes (Evil Eyes) or staves (Archmages) or with walking tanks (Golems). You have land mines, force fields, disrubting rays and even nuke (Armaggedon). You have living flying flamethrowers (dragons). You have creatures which cut the finest armours quicker then the best chainsaw (Behemoths).
The only different is that one things are "magic", while Forge's are technological.
Not to mention that what was presented at E3 in 1999 wasn't set in stone yet. Not all NWC developers were pleased with WWII for Forge setting - some wanted Jules Verne's theme. Unfortunately 3DO cancelled Forge town before it was ready and NWC were forced to accelerate work on Conflux Town, which was planned for second expansion.
Also:
David Mullich said:
We did have some debate about what visual form this technology would take. I advocated more of a Jules Verne glass-and-brass look; others wanted a WWII look.
Unfortunately, I rushed to fulfill their [Marketing Dept.] request and failed to ask what they wanted them for or to weed out concepts that we had rejected or were not fit for public viewing (such as bare-breasted Naga-tanks).
Quote:
I can say with certainty that had NWC continued with development of the Forge town, there would have never been anything even resembling a Naga Tank or Chainsaw Zombie, because it just wasn't our style the theme for the town was "steampunk", not "horror"
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 04:13 PM |
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Which is enough evidence, that indeed they would have eventually come up with something great. That was a really inspired team they had.
I still can't believe the radicalism in the HoMM 4 design afterwards. I don't think there has ever been a successor game in a successful brand that was so radically different from its predecessor - nor will there be any in the future.
You need a lot of guts to do that. Defiance. And probably even rage. A pity 3do was spending the money so unwisely. (And, yes, no reason to debate the result - if you try the impossible there will be problems.)
Anyway, I don't even want to imagine what that team could have made of HoMM 6. Pity.
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 04:16 PM |
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The Forge was not planned to be about blasters vs. swords. The wielders of technology were intended to be unprofessional, not knowing the principles of how this technology works exactly. It's like an artifact.
So that, the Goblins with blasters shown on promo screenshots were definitely intended to be like "a monkey with a grenade", for the Forge leaders just grabbed the deyjan meat and armed it with anything they could. The equipment was intended to be unstable, vulnerable and thus not so overpowered towards the named dragons, minotaurs and wizards. And anyway, the Forge would have to be destroyed in the end to save Enroth.
So anyway guys, I would strongly recommend to discover more facts on the topic before judging too quickly. The sci fi and fantasy are merged in the MM universe, and everyone have to admit it.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 04:57 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:58, 16 Dec 2014.
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Avonu said:
Stevie said:
I'm opposed to sci-fi elements in Heroes. You have faction fighting with bows and swords and Forge with tanks and lasers.
Yeah, right.
You have factions with creatures shooting laser from their eyes (Evil Eyes) or staves (Archmages) or with walking tanks (Golems). You have land mines, force fields, disrubting rays and even nuke (Armaggedon). You have living flying flamethrowers (dragons). You have creatures which cut the finest armours quicker then the best chainsaw (Behemoths).
The only different is that one things are "magic", while Forge's are technological.
Exactly. The source is magical, not technological. So please excuse me if I like a Beholder shooting lasers rather than an ultra high tech weapon, or a dragon shooting fire rather than a flamethrower, or an Armaggedon spell rather than a tactical nuke.
JJ said:
Which is enough evidence, that indeed they would have eventually come up with something great.
You know, releasing concepts that are not actual concepts of what you really intended to show that enrage the fans to the point you have to scrap off the entire project is to me the most idiotic thing you can possibly do. Post factum declarations don't really impress me. They messed up, they deserved it.
So I really don't buy that it's the fans to blame bullcrap. It's actually their own fault, no matter how you look at it.
Shoulda woulda coulda been great has no relevance at this point. It could as well have been snow like the majority thought.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 16, 2014 05:17 PM |
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orzie said:
The Forge was not planned to be about blasters vs. swords. The wielders of technology were intended to be unprofessional, not knowing the principles of how this technology works exactly. It's like an artifact.
So that, the Goblins with blasters shown on promo screenshots were definitely intended to be like "a monkey with a grenade", for the Forge leaders just grabbed the deyjan meat and armed it with anything they could. The equipment was intended to be unstable, vulnerable and thus not so overpowered towards the named dragons, minotaurs and wizards. And anyway, the Forge would have to be destroyed in the end to save Enroth.
In HoMM 2 the evil campaign side of Warlocks had much better units, but in HoMM 3 the evil campaign side of Inferno had in average inferior units.. I really wanted Inferno to be more of an alien threat, than they were.. imps and gogs, are just bad in my opinion, but there are many units that only needed to be slightly better and they'd be extremely powerful.
I'd too be surprised if they however would have made forge unbalanced, or a campaign only town.. that wouldn't be heroes like, so forge had to be balanced in my opinion. Perhaps in average a bit more powerful, but that's okay if you decrease e.g. growth a little.
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Living time backwards
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 16, 2014 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 17:26, 16 Dec 2014.
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Stevie said:
So I really don't buy that it's the fans to blame bullcrap.
Please don't take this the wrong way but I think JollyJoker provided a valuable analysis and even though you disagree there certainly have been enough trashtalk on this thread as you reported yourself in the Turban Tribunal.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 16, 2014 06:29 PM |
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Avonu said:
I can say with certainty that had NWC continued with development of the Forge town, there would have never been anything even resembling a Naga Tank or Chainsaw Zombie, because it just wasn't our style the theme for the town was "steampunk", not "horror"
what is the source of this quote?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 16, 2014 06:43 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 18:47, 16 Dec 2014.
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Stevie said:
The source is magical, not technological.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." 
verriker said:
what is the source of this quote?
Patience
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 06:45 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:46, 16 Dec 2014.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 06:52 PM |
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Galaad said:
Some hate the idea of Forge enough to continuously rant about it, others love it enough to make it happen.
Haters rest assured, don't expect it from Ubisoft.
Boobs 
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 16, 2014 06:58 PM |
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Avonu said:
Patience
who's Patience? hue hue hue
anyway yeah the Forge would have been cool, as a community member I disassociate myself from the stupid angry mob with pitchforks from long ago who demanded it be removed
I'm in a different angry mob lol
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This thread is pages long: 
