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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 07:05 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Which is enough evidence, that indeed they would have eventually come up with something great. That was a really inspired team they had.
I still can't believe the radicalism in the HoMM 4 design afterwards. I don't think there has ever been a successor game in a successful brand that was so radically different from its predecessor - nor will there be any in the future.
You need a lot of guts to do that. Defiance. And probably even rage. A pity 3do was spending the money so unwisely. (And, yes, no reason to debate the result - if you try the impossible there will be problems.)
Anyway, I don't even want to imagine what that team could have made of HoMM 6. Pity.
Shut up, I'm almost crying. Don't want to imagine NWC developing Heroes for more ten years...
And I love H4 radicalism (I think I already said it) it's a pety it doesn't have an adequate AI.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 16, 2014 07:31 PM |
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More details (not a lot, I know)
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darx
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 16, 2014 07:52 PM |
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Edited by darx at 19:53, 16 Dec 2014.
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Why can’t everybody just accept this for what it is – a “special anniversary edition” of the original H3:RoE, and nothing more! To mark 15 years of this fantastic game (and of course to get some money out of it lol). It’s just business as Salamandre said 
We – the hardcore fans now have ERA and other mods like HD Mod, (thank all you guys for this) and thanks to this – the possibilities are ENDLESS.
I understood this for what Ubisoft says that it is – an anniversary edition. Just some make-up, (cheap although) a tribute from Ubisoft to this fantastic game. (although the best tribute they would do by in my opinion would be to finally implement the h3 gameplay into a new Heroes game, but that’s sci-fi obviously). Stop whining 
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted December 16, 2014 09:55 PM |
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I would see, that this version is easy to mod like was H5 TotE.
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PlokiteWolf
Hired Hero
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posted December 16, 2014 11:43 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I don't think there has ever been a successor game in a successful brand that was so radically different from its predecessor - nor will there be any in the future.
Command & Conquer 4: Tiberian Twilight (EALA, 2010). Brought the franchise to its knees.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2014 12:17 AM |
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Slight difference:
Metacritic C&C 4: 64
Metacritic HoMM 4: 84
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 17, 2014 07:48 AM |
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Who right on his mind use or even belive in Metacritic to judge games anymore?
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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PlokiteWolf
Hired Hero
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posted December 17, 2014 07:51 AM |
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The rating ratio for these two games is as justified as it can be. C&C4 sucked altogether, while HoMM4 had some rather interesting ideas (alongside some rather terrible ones). And HoMM4 is addictive.
(It seems number 4 seems to hold a curse for some franchises  )
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 17, 2014 09:37 AM |
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Avonu said:
Not to mention that what was presented at E3 in 1999 wasn't set in stone yet. Not all NWC developers were pleased with WWII for Forge setting - some wanted Jules Verne's theme.
David Mullich said:
We did have some debate about what visual form this technology would take. I advocated more of a Jules Verne glass-and-brass look; others wanted a WWII look.
Actually, a steampunk Forge town could have worked. I remember Dungeon Siege 3, which features a steampunk town, while it's a medieval fantasy setting - and it didn't fall out of tone. Also remember that in World of Warcraft - which is also a fantasy setting - you have Gnomes and Goblins, who are also making all sorts of technological devices, while it doesn't fall out of tone at all. They have steam tanks and flying machines, but it fits the theme.
Perhaps the only thing left to dislike if they'd gone with a steampunk Forge town was that the units making up the faction were for the most part drawn from other factions. Goblins, Zombies, Minotaurs and Naga's? Seriously?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2014 10:44 AM |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 17, 2014 11:18 AM |
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Stevie said:
Excuse me but do I really have to point out that what they released for the public looked like anything but steampunk?
Not quite in the way I meant. What I've seen on Forge imagery from NWC was high-tech stuff, that might fit more in a Star Trek / Star Wars universe. Did you play Dungeon Siege 3? Or World of Warcraft? The "tech" they use there doesn't look like anything shown in the NWC images.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2014 11:51 AM |
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I did play WoW. The reason tech works there is because it's rough and unpolished and funky and crazy. Not so futuristic like Forge. It's as you said, I think of Star Trek and Star Wars when I look at it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 17, 2014 12:31 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:34, 17 Dec 2014.
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Maurice said:
Goblins, Zombies, Minotaurs and Naga's? Seriously?
Let's have a look back at MM7.
Quote:
The "nice" join the Resurrectra priestess who will lead them to Gavin Magnus, the latter conducting extensive research on technology of the Ancients. The "bad guys" are contacted by a sorcerer named Kastore, who wants to use the technology of the Ancients to reactivate the Forges, capable of producing ultra-powerful futuristic units. The four wicked are sent to Deyja and become Archibald advisors.
When Archibald gets overthrown by Kastore, he contacts the heroes and asks them to help him to free Roland from the Kreegans. Catherine will join the crusade and they will manage to eliminate Xenofex as well as eradicating the Kreegans. The end of MM7 depend on your alignment. The official end was to be : the four wicked reach their purpose and Kastore reactivates all of the Forges, creating an army of robotic and futuristic creatures.
Therefore it was planned that the bad guys won and that Kastore managed to reactivate Celestial Forges in order to obtain creatures with advanced technologies so he could crush his enemies.
As already said in this thread, futuristic technology of the Ancients had a much important place in the M&M universe, but NWC never introduced it into HoMM, leading to the consequence that a huge majority of HoMM players having never played M&M had no clue whatsoever of the existence of such objects in that universe (me included, btw). NWC (and more specifically JVC) had the ambition of strengthening the link between HoMM and M&M and hoped that Forge could be the the way to do so in order to introduce Sci-fi into HoMM already outstanding saga. Even if HoMM players weren't aware of it, majority of the artifacts of the franchise were nothing less than "keys" created by the Ancients to activate their technologies, but the inferior creatures living in their world couldn't realize that by themselves and found other use of these artifacts.
AB's original storyline
Archibald's councilors discover the artifact named Heavenly Forge. When studying the artifact, they realize that it could allow them to create a new base of operations, the Forge, a futuristic wonder world of cogs, wheels, and factories capable of creating fierce robot warriors that wield powerful hi-tech weaponry. Archibald's advisors pitch their camp at their new base of operations and begin to build. Their object is nothing less than the conquest of Erathia.
The Forge served the purpose of the creation of Artifacts to the Ancients, but Archibald's tortured mind made the Forge capable of building monstrosities. He actively recruited creatures in order to transform them into machines or to provide them with futuristic weapons : Goblins, Zombies, Minotaurs, Nagas and Ogres join its ranks with high-powered army, sweeping Erathia. Catherine and Roland are useless against these creatures, but they have heard of a legend about the Blade of Armageddon.
Gelu and his archers agrees to help them when they come to AvLee and repels the forces of Forge. Meanwhile, Catherine manages to reforge the blade of Armageddon and destroyed one by one all the Forges and eliminates Archibald.
To thank him for his help, Catherine gives the Blade to Gelu and returns to Enroth with Roland.
Ps. I'm really no lore expert so if someone feels the need to correct/add something, he is more than welcomed.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 17, 2014 12:43 PM |
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I really dont get, when someone says X unit feels wrong, objecting to it with the official story or any story, actually. The story has zero importance, it's just some campaign filler to move things forward. If a unit or a town project seems awkward to people, it will keep on doing that no matter how many pages of rationalization or cheap fiction is presented to justify it. Most players dont even read those. In a computer game, what matters is how it blends in visually. So, yes, steampunk instead of high-tech would make a difference but when someone says "nagas and golems, really," presenting some background story to him is quite in vain, he is not complaining about plot holes.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 17, 2014 12:47 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 12:51, 17 Dec 2014.
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artu said:
So, yes, steampunk instead of high-tech would make a difference but when someone says "nagas and golems, really," presenting some background story to him is quite in vain, he is not complaining about plot holes.
Yet is the explanation of the question asked. I prefer to provide lore for posterity than just say whether I prefer Zombies to have chainsaws or not. If someone doesn't care about what makes the magic happens, it doesn't invalidate the fact that this magic came from somewhere.
If anything, I found all the Forge concept most interesting and I don't see any problem with expressing myself by that.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 17, 2014 12:56 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:57, 17 Dec 2014.
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I dislike Forge strongly, at least the Forge we've seen in the drafts and third party art. But that's irrelevant, my point is, people who dislike it dont dislike it because of the story, they dislike it because they think the STYLE does not match. The style will not match for them, no matter where the magic's coming from.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2014 12:58 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 17, 2014 01:02 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:03, 17 Dec 2014.
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artu said:
they dislike it because they think the STYLE does not match.
I think it is the liberty of the creators to decide whether the style matches or not.
But this is only my opinion, just like those people Avonu referred to that wanted to go more with the Jules Verne theme.
I strongly support JJ when he says we don't know how it would have turned out.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 17, 2014 01:04 PM |
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Edited by artu at 13:09, 17 Dec 2014.
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That "if even" does not change the reality, not about the universe nor about the fact that nothing can come out of you that I can't get. The enjoyable part is, I know you are very well aware of this.
@Galaad
Quote:
I think it is the liberty of the creators to decide whether the style matches or not.
They have the legal right to implant anything they want, yes. They can put in the robocop if they desire to do so. But that's quite beside the point.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 17, 2014 01:18 PM |
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Galaad said:
artu said:
they dislike it because they think the STYLE does not match.
I think it is the liberty of the creators to decide whether the style matches or not.
As it is mine, to dislike or like it. Most likely the former, though, which would repel me from liking the expansion as a whole. That would drive me, as a customer, away; I can't imagine that they would try and launch something that is likely to drive more customers away than to bind to them.
Perhaps it would also have been much easier to accept if those technological aspects had been present in Heroes1 and Heroes2, as well as vanilla Heroes3. As you indicated, the HoMM series had always been left void of those influences, there aren't even references to it if I recall correctly. That those aspects were present in the MM series only goes to show that a gap exists between the two series that was never closed.
As you might have guessed, I never played the MM series.
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This thread is pages long: 
