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strigvir
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 05, 2016 07:47 AM |
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They may no be affected by buffs, which are rare for Dungeon outside of Vampirism, but that also means they are not affected by dark magic either.
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Kora
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 05, 2016 10:32 AM |
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@magnomagus: Ok, I've finished ARMG manual and I see the whole Obelisks and Shantiri disks system differently. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Same goes for everything you said. As always, thank you for the answers!
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 06, 2016 09:07 AM |
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted October 08, 2016 09:34 AM |
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Anyone tested campaign mode in this expansion?
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 08, 2016 09:41 AM |
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magnomagus said:
4. I would remove the logistics skill and add a little movement per hero level if I had to redesign the game. But this is not possible.
Whoa? Is it possible to reduce the logistics bonus to 0% on all levels and add a script that increase the Movement points ?
Also may be then use the logistics slot for some other support skill (change the icon) and just add some lua script with some recruitment/economics bonuses?
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Join our official discord channel | NCF Utility Beta
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 10:08 AM |
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zmudziak22 said:
Anyone tested campaign mode in this expansion?
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/2/16181
dredknight said:
magnomagus said:
4. I would remove the logistics skill and add a little movement per hero level if I had to redesign the game. But this is not possible.
Whoa? Is it possible to reduce the logistics bonus to 0% on all levels and add a script that increase the Movement points ?
Is this really possible?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 08, 2016 10:46 AM |
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As I was saying, you don't need a script for that. You could even make logistics disappear from each hero class level ups but they'd still appear in witch huts.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 08, 2016 02:05 PM |
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@Zmudziak: based on the thread that was linked I'm working on some new bugfixes, but currently c1m5, markals campaign & wulfstans campaign should be played with utility.exe
@Elvin: it is not possible to increase movement based on level not even with scripts becasue the script command doesn't increase the max value, it is only possible to set a higher base movement for all heroes.
hex editing would be required to switch off the logistics effect.
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 02:53 PM |
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Remove Logistics skill
OK, thinking out loud here, so bare with me...
How about:
1) Remove the Logistics skill to replace it with a new skill to be called "Governorship"
2) Governorship 1st level: (Equivalent to current Recruitment perk) Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures increase by 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 2nd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level creatures increase by 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 3rd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level creatures increase by 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
3) Remove the Recruitment perk from Leadership.
4) Move the "Battlefield Logistics" perk (+3 speed in siege) to Leadership, rename it to "Siege Fervor", and arrange the perks such that the middle line of perks in Leadership is Encourage -> Siege Fervor -> Aura of Swiftness. Possibly nerf the Siege Fervor perk to +2 speed in siege.
5) In place of the old "Battlefield Logistics" perk, include a Logistics "perk" that increases land movement by 10% (equivalent to 1st level Logistics skill).
6) Of course, increase the base movement of all heroes, though idk by how much 
What do you think?
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Kora
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 08, 2016 04:47 PM |
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Edited by Kora at 16:51, 08 Oct 2016.
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thGryphn said:
OK, thinking out loud here, so bare with me...
How about:
1) Remove the Logistics skill to replace it with a new skill to be called "Governorship"
2) Governorship 1st level: (Equivalent to current Recruitment perk) Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures increase by 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 2nd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level creatures increase by 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 3rd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level creatures increase by 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
3) Remove the Recruitment perk from Leadership.
4) Move the "Battlefield Logistics" perk (+3 speed in siege) to Leadership, rename it to "Siege Fervor", and arrange the perks such that the middle line of perks in Leadership is Encourage -> Siege Fervor -> Aura of Swiftness. Possibly nerf the Siege Fervor perk to +2 speed in siege.
5) In place of the old "Battlefield Logistics" perk, include a Logistics "perk" that increases land movement by 10% (equivalent to 1st level Logistics skill).
6) Of course, increase the base movement of all heroes, though idk by how much
What do you think?
After I've recieved all the answers for my questions from magnomagus I came to the conslusion, that magno is alredy aware of if not all, then the most of the game issues. Also he have alredy said what he would do if it would be possible.
About the whole Governorship: you see, removal of the mandatory talent just to add another mandatory talent isn't that great of idea. The current governor system is designed so that even if you won't have one of those useful creature-producing governor talents (perks?), you'll still be able to pick some other one, without losing much. But if you'd add mandatory Governorship there, not having it for your governor would be quite a problem. At the same time there's yet another issue here: Estates talent is currently one of our biggest sources of gold, so without it we'll have to deal with gold problems even without your Governorship lvl3 which would push our economics into even bigger pit.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 05:02 PM |
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Kora said:
thGryphn said:
OK, thinking out loud here, so bare with me...
How about:
1) Remove the Logistics skill to replace it with a new skill to be called "Governorship"
2) Governorship 1st level: (Equivalent to current Recruitment perk) Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures increase by 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 2nd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level creatures increase by 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
Governorship 3rd level: Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level creatures increase by 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively.
3) Remove the Recruitment perk from Leadership.
4) Move the "Battlefield Logistics" perk (+3 speed in siege) to Leadership, rename it to "Siege Fervor", and arrange the perks such that the middle line of perks in Leadership is Encourage -> Siege Fervor -> Aura of Swiftness. Possibly nerf the Siege Fervor perk to +2 speed in siege.
5) In place of the old "Battlefield Logistics" perk, include a Logistics "perk" that increases land movement by 10% (equivalent to 1st level Logistics skill).
6) Of course, increase the base movement of all heroes, though idk by how much
What do you think?
After I've recieved all the answers for my questions from magnomagus I came to the conslusion, that magno is alredy aware of if not all, then the most of the game issues. Also he have alredy said what he would do if it would be possible.
About the whole Governorship: you see, removal of the mandatory talent just to add another mandatory talent isn't that great of idea. The current governor system is designed so that even if you won't have one of those useful creature-producing governor talents (perks?), you'll still be able to pick some other one, without losing much. But if you'd add mandatory Governorship there, not having it for your governor would be quite a problem. At the same time there's yet another issue here: Estates talent is currently one of our biggest sources of gold, so without it we'll have to deal with gold problems even without your Governorship lvl3 which would push our economics into even bigger pit.
Yeah, my rationale was that Governorship would be great skill for governors / secondary heroes but it would relieve the main hero from a mandatory skill, which the current Logistics is.
One thing though, saying Governorship would be mandatory AND a problem for economics (due to faster growth) is a contradiction. It's either a good thing or a bad thing... don't you think? Which makes me think it will likely not that big of a mandatory skill, because mandatory to me means "must have to win the game", which I don't think this Governorship skill will be...
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 08, 2016 05:06 PM |
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Kora said:
About the whole Governorship: you see, removal of the mandatory talent just to add another mandatory talent isn't that great of idea. The current governor system is designed so that even if you won't have one of those useful creature-producing governor talents (perks?), you'll still be able to pick some other one, without losing much. But if you'd add mandatory Governorship there, not having it for your governor would be quite a problem. At the same time there's yet another issue here: Estates talent is currently one of our biggest sources of gold, so without it we'll have to deal with gold problems even without your Governorship lvl3 which would push our economics into even bigger pit.
I agree with you Kora that if Governship is added in place of logistics it can pave a unflattering way of main hero development.
But on the other hand skills like estates which serve throughout the whole game and can be eventually removed before the final battle in favor of some battle perk... it is like you get the best of 2 skills in one slot. The conclusion is that I dont mind the governor skill penalty in favor of some stronger economics.
I will ask around the Russian forum if anyone has bumped into the logistics while hex editing.
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Join our official discord channel | NCF Utility Beta
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Kora
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 08, 2016 05:38 PM |
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Edited by Kora at 18:00, 08 Oct 2016.
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@dredknight My vocabulary have been increased by 2 new words. Great! Continuing with both of you guys on the topic:
+@thGryphn From my point of view with the removal of the whole Logistics we'll have two problems:
1) We still need to add Estates (or maybe something simmilar), which is needed to compensate for additional creatures for all of the governor-type talents and governor bonus creatures. One of the results of not having Estates for all the players and factions: Haven have even bigger economic advantage over all the other factions, especially the ones without good gold-producing talents.
2) Governorship would be a good thing for the governor, but bad thing for the game since it's WAY more rewarding then most of the other creature-producing talents. Which would lead to the problem of mandatoriness:
Let's say Player A have got a Governorship on his governor some time in the beginning of the game. He'll have bonus creatures as soon as the next week.
Let's say Player B won't recieve Governorship any time soon or even at all. It will lead Player B to have less creatures in army or town and to level up talents which gives creatures only on high levels or after spending lots of level-ups.
Weeks passes. Economics are improving through gold mines, gold producing artifacts, main hero clearing anything on his way...
Player A alredy have lots of bonus creatures, he have access not only to the Governorship lvl 1/2/3, but to the Governorship talents, which would (probably) give him even more advantages over the other Player 2 who was forced to progress towards Cultmaster/Light magic/Faction talent. All of those available to the Player 1. All of those may not appear at all. Also all of those will only give creatures on a big level (after level-ing up useless for governor talents) or give too small amount of creatures compared to the Governorship stuff.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 06:18 PM |
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How about nerfing the proposed Governorship skill?
Governorship 1st level: Weekly growth of 1st level creatures increase by 3.
Governorship 2nd level: Weekly growth of 1st and 2nd level creatures increase by 3 and 2, respectively.
Governorship 3rd level: (Equivalent to current Recruitment perk) Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures increase by 3, 2, 1, respectively.
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Kora
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 08, 2016 06:47 PM |
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Edited by Kora at 18:53, 08 Oct 2016.
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thGryphn said:
How about nerfing the proposed Governorship skill?
Governorship 1st level: Weekly growth of 1st level creatures increase by 3.
Governorship 2nd level: Weekly growth of 1st and 2nd level creatures increase by 3 and 2, respectively.
Governorship 3rd level: (Equivalent to current Recruitment perk) Weekly growth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures increase by 3, 2, 1, respectively.
It's hard to say whether it's good enough or not without knowledge of what will be going on with the Governorship perks. Do you want to copy stuff from Logistics (Scouting, Pathfinding, Estates and others) or add some new ones maybe?
Another big balance question rises: what will happen to the whole battle balance if we'll have another spot for some battle talent? How it will impact different types of heroes/strategies/factions? I don't have any answer on this question atm. When magnomagus will see what we did here, I would be really interested to hear his idea of talent which would potentially replace Logistics.
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azalen
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 07:22 PM |
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Elvin said:
Immunity to destructive and dark is hardly a bad thing and dungeon is not known for its buffs either. Besides, non magic immune blackies would be heresy.
Would be fun to give black dragons an extra cool ability - something to make you pause before taking red dragons most of the time. Maybe -1 to enemy flyer initiative or something like that... a minor stormwind-esque intimidate affect. So, when facing down Crystals and Angels, you would generally take black dragons. Not necessary, as black dragons are already powerful against casters - more of a flavor win. Just a thought.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 08, 2016 08:24 PM |
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Let me first point out that I have currently depleted all 'stub' skills, so that means nothing can be added, skill can only be converted and so far only in theory, since it will require hexediting to switch off the old effects.
So even if logistics will be edited to cancel the movement effect all those unique logistics perks need to placed elsewhere or in the new skill. I don't see a viable path for this.
I also wonder if people really want H5 to become a game where all heroes have permanently exactly the same movement? This kind of breaks a H2 series fundamental, just like black dragons not immune.
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 10, 2016 04:52 PM |
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Alright folks it's time for some news.
As some of you may have noticed since release of RC8b bug reports and (valid) balance complaints actually went down 95%. Which makes me feel I have reached a different phase in the process of developing the gamemechanics of this mod. I think the gamemechanics are close to completion and I think that is a good thing because H5.5 is not a simple game and at some point people need to know that it is not going to change much anymore so they can really focus on learning to play it and discuss strategies without me posting an update every month throwing it in confusion.
I still have a list of leftovers that I have recently implemented. Most importantly a redesign of imbue ballista & imbue arrow.
-Imbue arrow doesn't cost ATB.
-Imbue Arrow gives random dark magic spell.
-Imbue ballista also immediately teaches basic destructive magic+destructive spell and a -1 morale penalty.
-added optional feature to make memory mentors forbidden and turn them into skillboosters
-Fixed game breaking bugs in campaign 1 mission 5.
-Soldiers luck gives additional exploration bonus for everyone and academy bonus is removed. The following effect is added: The hero will also be more lucky on the adventure map and will collect between 10-30% more gold, resources & creatures from battle sites, resource offerings, grave digging & lost items.
-Shadow Mistresses get Hexing attack instead of Whip Strike (adds 2 spells and removes frenzy)
-Shadow matriarchs get Swift attack instead of Whip stike
-Red dragon -5HP
-Fixed ufretin spec icon
-Fixed range txt of crossbowman
-Fixed mysticism txt
-Fixed Chieftain tooltip txt in skillwheel
-Fixed town ore spec txt
-Fixed yrbeth text
-Added missing governance text to sylvan town tooltips
-Added explanation to resourcebar income tooltip
The fact that I consider gamemechanics almost complete is not the same thing as saying that I will permanently stop working on this mod. Since several months I feel no urgency anymore to achieve my dream heroes game, since I feel I have already achieved that goal. This is more like a hobby that maybe I will pickup again later to make extra content such as maps, campaigns or optional features.
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 10, 2016 07:16 PM |
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I'd like to say congratulations on completing this mod!
You've done a lot and put up with a lot, and some friends and I have had a lot of fun playing this mod! I'm glad to hear that it's stabilized, so I don't have to worry that maps I try to balance will become outdated/imbalanced by later changes. I like the idea of this being a complete product, more like HotA than WoG.
If I'm home and have time over the summer I might try to make some maps/a campaign. Is there any way I can define a campaign to enable/disable town conversion/8 skills etc.?
Cheers and well done!
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"An Elf can take out a Ranger
any day of the week, but they
prefer to do it on weekends so
they can stay up late and catch
a show afterwards." -H2 tavern
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted October 10, 2016 08:44 PM |
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Are new features like gouverment, town/dwelling conversion etc. working in Campaign?
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