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| Thread: Magic System Balancing |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 31, 2015 06:03 PM |
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What I'm saying is that there is little place for situational spells when you only get 2 spells in one elemental tier. That means that most of the time you are stuck with a crappy spell while half the time you get a good spell. This is horrible design and that's nothing new for the series. A spell can be useful and still have a situational effect to make up for the fact that the other spell might be more universally useful.
Take earthquake, would it be good alternative to stone spikes if it only damaged structures? Is regeneration a good alternative to stoneskin? All spells should be useful, especially when a game features so few of them. They should not be artificially equal nor should they be a waste of of mage guild space - at least not most of the time.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 31, 2015 06:08 PM |
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maybe put implosion as level four earth-spell? pls?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 31, 2015 06:12 PM |
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Lore disagrees 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 31, 2015 06:28 PM |
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Lore can go suck a lemon.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 31, 2015 06:54 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Lore can go suck a lemon.
Those who enforce it too.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 31, 2015 08:09 PM |
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This is just a minor complaint but high tier spells should sound cooler than stone spikes. Earthquake shakes Ashan's tectonic plates. Meteor shower rains down freaking meteors, presumably because earth magic is so awesome that it causes an instant gravitation pull from outer space. Stone spikes.. Kind of pales by comparison.
PS I'm not sure meteor shower is considered an earth spell nowadays but I mention it out of principle. Implosion sounds all kinds of awesome too and that's what we need from high tier spells 
In all honesty I don't mind implosion changing school though I rather liked it in earth. Prime gets all the cool stuff nowadays..
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 31, 2015 09:49 PM |
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Guess you could say it's in a PRIME spot!
Man, why does prime even exist? is it time magic? What's the point? Would be way easier to just remove it and spread those cool spells among the elemental schools as far as i'm concerned. I miss slow and haste in earth/air. That made much more sense than prime, that's for sure...
time magic my ass..
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 31, 2015 10:03 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Lore can go suck a lemon.
I nominate this post for a QP. 
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What will happen now?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 31, 2015 10:24 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Man, why does prime even exist? is it time magic? What's the point? Would be way easier to just remove it and spread those cool spells among the elemental schools as far as i'm concerned. I miss slow and haste in earth/air. That made much more sense than prime, that's for sure...
time magic my ass..
seriously,
it's one thing to fix what wasn't broken by pushing this horrible and counter-productive Ashan spell system, but only a true retard would manage to destroy what wasn't broken by putting both haste and slow in the same school... lol
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 31, 2015 10:25 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Guess you could say it's in a PRIME spot!
I am sorry I couldnt resist...
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted May 31, 2015 11:15 PM |
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Now, now, let's not make the situation sound worse than it actually is... it will reach rock bottom and nobody wants that 
That said, I'd like to see more suggestions as it feels like people avoid trying to post anything as they seem disillusioned with H7 of late. I do think this is actually the right time to start the ball rolling, as I have a hunch the devs will swap certain things around as it doesn't involve more than 20lines of code for a change which is mostly a repost from another location.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 01, 2015 06:18 AM |
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TDL said:
Now, now, let's not make the situation sound worse than it actually is... it will reach rock bottom and nobody wants that
Really? Im not so sure. All discussions in this place tend to descend into competitions about who can hate Ubi, Erwan, H7 (and H6) and SC the most. Overreacting seems to be part of this game.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 01, 2015 07:01 AM |
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Until I start deleting again  This topic is to salvage what can be salvaged, if you do not feel like contributing it's fine. To those who do, I'm interested in your feedback.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 01, 2015 07:35 AM |
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I agree about some of the high tier spells sounding too "meh". Its important for the feeling of progression that the best spells also feel mighty to wield. Also visually (same goes for skills and perks). In earth magic earthquake sounds more powerful then poison cloud. Meteor shower sure is missing. But its hard to asses earth magic before seeing Sylvans racial skills and final creature abilities. Im guessing it will have synnergy effects like light magic with haven.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 01, 2015 08:38 AM |
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It doesn't matter if earth has a synergy with sylvan. It should be balanced regardless of faction, within itself and compared to the other elements.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 01, 2015 08:46 AM |
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Elvin said:
This is just a minor complaint but high tier spells should sound cooler than stone spikes. Earthquake shakes Ashan's tectonic plates. Meteor shower rains down freaking meteors, presumably because earth magic is so awesome that it causes an instant gravitation pull from outer space. Stone spikes.. Kind of pales by comparison.
Field of Impalement 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 01, 2015 08:47 AM |
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Now THAT'S what I'm talking about
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 01, 2015 11:54 AM |
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I think the major problem in this (and previous) magic systems is that the cool benefits from magic schools does not stack with spell power.
Might hero attack and def have good synergy with their perks. So the stronger their attack/def the stronger the perk power.
On the other hand mages get all spell benefits from Mastery levels (and perks sometimes).Most non damage spells do not benefit from spell power at all (except duration which is relevant only at the very begining).
So basically might hero can get most of the magic hero goodies just by picking those masteries.
Some examples of spells that requires masteries only:
Frenzy, Hypnotize, haste, slow, teleport.
In regards to H7: the blind effect of the light spells, the blizzard slow effect, implosion (maybe?), shadow dark, shadow image (strength again determined by the skill rank) etc..
Until the game mechanic provides spellpower based path to unlock the goodies there will be no sleep for Ubi till the end of support phase.
In the following days I will provide some basic example of what such development path should look like.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted June 01, 2015 12:39 PM |
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I never went so deep into mechanics and mathematics of spells as i am a casual gamer, but somehow i kinda agree with you and also, i cannot help but see each faction attached to the playstyle of a Faction.
Saying that, i do hope that the spells are few because they have plans to expand it later with expansions that will bring more factions. But the topic of an expansion content is irrelevant to this post.
To me, and call me traditional of you want, or more influenced by Magic the Gathering, the core of each magic school should be somewhat like this:
Light: Defensive Buffs (Initiative, Health), Mild offensive damage, Healing with empowering buffs
Earth: Terrain Manipulation (Create, destroy obstacle etc), Defense/power Boost, Slowing enemies while poisoning them, cleansing spells
Dark: Causing curses/debuffs, Damage over time spells that trigger extra debuffs, stealing health and manipulating enemy units
Prime: Time/Space controlling spells (haste, slow, time statis etc), Summoning Magic, Linking Magic (transferring buffs/debuffs from one unit to another), mana manipulation
Air: Hindering flyers and shooters, causing mass damage (chain lightning, Cyclone etc), random effects on the battle map
Water: Over time buffs or building effects, slow growth but powerful in the end, slowing enemies down
Fire: Offensive spells, Great boost to creature attributes with some drawback
And writing this, i realize how hard it is to make a basic theme for all magic schools without overlapping the grey zone with others... I guess, having similar spells cannot be avoided...
Also, i end up not very satisfied with the core characteristics i gave... If anyone wants to help expand it, maybe it will better help us understand what kind of spells belong to which school
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castiel_789
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 01, 2015 08:36 PM |
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I would go just a little further and put the adventure spell in a separate tab (like H5). Following on comment in save heal topic, maybe add retaliation power for a couple turn with heal could be another way. Time statis duration may increase with spellpower or mastery so it hard to say.
For the rest there some nice suggestion
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