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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 08, 2015 03:14 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 15:14, 08 Oct 2015.
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Stevie said:
The arithmetic average of my Heroes 7 review scores is this:
(8 + 7 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 7 + 7 + 8 + 6 + 7 + 6 + 9) / 12 = 82 / 12 = 6.8(3)
The arithmetic average of the current metacritic scores is this:
(88 + 80 + 80 + 80 + 78 + 75 + 75 + 70 + 70 + 70 + 65 + 65 + 64 + 60 + 60 + 50 + 50 + 40) / 18 = 1220 / 18 = 68.(7)
....
This would also explain the myriad of deja vu moments, recurring dreams and bizarre illusions I've experienced lately. I was fearing I might've gone insane.
I am afraid it's the Spider Venom that you had injected at the end of march is starting to take hold  .
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 04:43 PM |
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Meh. People speaking ill of Heroes 6 probably pressed auto attack at every fight, because the depth of fighting and battles is there. I don't find any cool abilities like the Kirin mist or the ravager taunt in Heroes 7.
As for the Heroes 3 part, why don't just just play Heroes 3 for as long as you can withstand the ugly graphics lul.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 08, 2015 04:50 PM |
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Thanks Stevie for collecting the data. At 7 p. m. I'll do some more statistical calculations to extract from the review scores as much as possible.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 08, 2015 06:23 PM |
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3lion said:
Frankly I never heard neither from critics nor from gamers, what exactly made the franchise so good and why people around the globe continue to play even the classic Heroes games even today.. But they keep repeating the same words. Does anybody know by any chance? Is it some kind of mantra or this words really have any meaning?
Of course you heard. You are not simply relating. And there's not a fixed response. The group of ideas which made Heroes a success orbits around some key-features, although the level of importance each had upon making someone play it might differ. However, I do think that the ingredients are something similar with different quantities, like people cooking rice with the same stuff, although some like it more salty, others with onion.
So you can understand me, I prefer H2 from all others games in this franchise. And MM7 from the MM side. Then I have H4 and H3 as my next prefered Heroes games, H5 coming in fourth.
Topics in which made me interested in these game:
- Different factions
- Evolving heroes
- Map to explore and elements to interact
- Quests to do, scripted or not
- Spell casting system
- Control over a varied sort of units
- Battles
- Map creating possibility and replayability
- Different strategies when building towns or hiring heroes
- Elegant graphics, not overdone or consuming much of your attention
- Feeling of immersion in your kingdom when you visit your towns
In H2, all these are fulfilled. What I enjoyed most in H2 was that it was more unique than I felt the other games, it wasn't that balanced, there was not this concern that if someone has Dragons produced in their town, other factions must have another top strong unit as well. Humans had paladins, more numerous but much weaker than a Dragon. But they were fun and realistic in that setting (for a fantasy game that is). H2 also had just some upgrades. Units could improve or not. In later games, it felt like units had upgrades for the sake of having upgrades. Giving too much of special things to others, it simply make everything alike.
In H3, we had additions to that list, some more factions, heroes now had specialties, equiping things were now more shaped to a manequin, more spells, battles etc.
What I didn't like was the fact that now everything had upgrades, all factions how had an ubber strong unit for the sake of balancing (probably due Multiplayer purposes, which makes me wonder if this game shouldn't have a version of it apart from vanilla), spells had schools (I prefer spells to be like in H2, on their own. Factions would then bend those effects into the shape of their culture, but this is a preference). So, the things I didn't like in H3 weren't enough to put me aside.
In H4, some of those topics suffered a lot. Additions from H3 in factions were taken away. Some were mixed up, like Necropolis and Inferno. Heroes lost their specialty. Number of units decreased and upgrades were gone. Feeling of immersion when visiting towns were not there anymore, given that townscreens now felt like big military camps, with no identity (similar to how I feel these townscreens in H6 and H7), some awful creature designs and names. However, some topics were added:
- Heroes directly in battlefield
- Caravans
- Units could walk on their own
- Heroes classes and advanced classes
- Different skill system
- Consumable items
- Units with spell book
- Equilibris (later on)
And some other topics had some changes, which kept the pace.
There was also bugs and balancing issues, most of those addressed by Equilibris.
From the old topics and the new added, I came to enjoy H4, but it took a while to start disengaging from things I liked that were not present in this game. I actually played H4 more than any other Heroes game, although I still prefer H2.
So far, each game added to the other, added things that compelled me to play, even when they changed some mechanics in a more drastic manner, although not implemented perfectly, there was room for improvements in H5.
In H5, many of those items in that list are there again, but some of the new topics I grow to enjoy were no more. In other words, H5 was nice (after ToE), but it was stagnated in all the usual things. Besides, it was when graphics started to try to play a greater role in the overall product, which was not good for me due my PC at that time not being so good and I had a slow gaming experience, not to mention AI turns which took forever.
In H6, some of those topics were there and some added were definitely against my taste, at least how they were implemented, and some others I liked were absent. Hero skill system, spell system, no townscreen (upon launching), system requirements, zonings, town conversion, creature pooling (town portal) and other things were the things that made the game feel so terrible to me. Sanctuary seemed the only thing added which didn't felt bad, but it was not enough to balance back the scales in favor to this title.
In H7, some of those topics are present, some of the things I hated from H6 were no more, others were kept, others were changed from that but didn't got back to the level I enjoyed from the old times, such as skill system or heroes classes and specializations. Spells also don't click in the current setting, there are not added factions, many things from visuals come from H6, which don't make it better either, and basically nothing really new which I could add as a topic.
So, weighting it all, H7 took back some choices from H6, doesn't add anything to the old topics, and doesn't add topics of its own. It simply lacks purpose.
I don't know if that's what everyone talks when it's about Heroes feeling but I'm certain it's not myth. But I believe those topics are of similar values to most of those who utter these words, although for some, Multiplayer and Map Making capabilities must have more impact to them than for me. 
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 08, 2015 08:27 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 21:10, 08 Oct 2015.
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Stevie said:
The arithmetic average of the current metacritic scores is this:
(88 + 80 + 80 + 80 + 78 + 75 + 75 + 70 + 70 + 70 + 65 + 65 + 64 + 60 + 60 + 50 + 50 + 40) / 18 = 1220 / 18 = 68.(7)
Time to introduce two terms from statistics. The first one is median and it is a middle value in a set. When a set has n elements, these elements are put in an ascending fashion and number of them is:
1) even, then median is a mean value of (n/2)th and (n/2 +1)th element of the set.
2) odd, then median is the value of ((n + 1)/2)th element of the set.
Median is very often used in scientific papers instead of mean, as it represents in a better way the numerical distribution of data.
The second term is standard deviation. It represents how much the data in set is dispersed from mean. The smaller value of standard deviation is, the smaller dispersion is. In order to calculate std you need to first calculate mean of squared values coming from the set. Then, you need to subtract from it squared mean. After that you calculate the square root of the difference and voila, you get std.
After this rather long introduction, let's get to numbers, shall we? First thing is that mean value of Metacritic scores is 67.8, not 68.7. Secondly, the median of scores is 70 and the standard deviation is 12.1. Raw numbers are useless, unless we compare them to something. So, let's go to Heroes VI scores and compare them to Heroes VII's ones.
Heroes VI Heroes VII
mean 76.9 67.8
median 80.0 70.0
std 8.59 12.1
review number 48.0 18.0
max score 88.0 88.0
min score 50.0 40.0
As we can see from this table Heroes VI was received way better by critics than Heroes VII (as we can see by median and mean.) However, what is more interesting, is the difference in standard deviations. Heroes VII's one is higher by over 40% from Heroes VI's one. This means that Heroes VII was in fact a way more divisive game than Heroes VI, what I find intruiging. EDIT: It is important to add that Heroes VI got smaller std with higher review number (usually it's the other way around,) what additionally proves that this game got way more homogenous response than Heroes VII.
EDIT: Added some info to Alcibiades' request.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 08, 2015 08:50 PM |
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How many reviews of H6 and H7, respectively, are included in that statistic? That would have a significant impact on the standard deviation I reckon.
When that's said, the median score for H6 of 80 is just absurd, so while H6 might score higher than H7 in these numbers, I think the scores for H7 are much more accurate than those of H6.
____________
What will happen now?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 09:13 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 09, 2015 02:05 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:11, 09 Oct 2015.
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This is really bothering me. ALL reviews written in french blame the community. And Ubisoft is in France, coincidence? Here is the latest I read for instance, from a free newspaper:
Quote:
Solid, very well done and rich in content, Might and Magic: Heroes VII still lacks fantasy and creativity. Blame is on fans resisting too much innovation.
...  ...
Or we can take example from jeuxvideo.com (14/20), a popular gaming website in France:
Quote:
The game remains faithful to its past, yet lacks magic, it’s an homage the lovers of “good old times” will without a doubt appreciate, but fails mixing between tradition and modernity.
I am personally highly outraged and upmost infuriated reading this kind of stuff, because I certainly feel targeted as a "lover of good old times" and I fiercely disagree the game "remains faithful to its past", for following the whole development closely it is the very first time in my life I not only don't want to buy the new homm installment, but also am not even willing to play it altogether.
Then, what does the "most rated helpful" steam review -91% out of 518 users says :
Fnordsensei said:
It comes down to this: those who grow up with this game now, as I grew up with the original series, are NOT going to love it. It is not loved by its developers, and that transmits through to us, loud and clear.
I just think it's worthy to point it out.
PS. @Storm-Giant: I think Alci is right suggesting to include full ending paragraph from Koalition's review to the OP instead of just last sentence as I did.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 09, 2015 02:26 PM |
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that crops up in many English reviews too, annoying thing is that these dim conservative fans who supposedly demanded this game are a complete myth as far as I've been able to see,
I think there's hardly anyone out there who actually wants an unambitious, uninnovative clone of Heroes 3, not even the few people who think they want one, personally I want evolution of the Heroes formula that makes sense lol
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2015 02:26 PM |
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@Galaad
Ohh so it's MY/our fault(as part of the community) that devs decided to use such bland/plain/"grey" colors that squeeze every inch of fantasy feeling and immersion out of the game. Colors that I absolutely loath and which make devs seem like complete amateurs are actually MY fault??? Even most B-class games(or any games really) have way better color-palette and designs for crying out loud!(and yes I'm being dramatic here^^)
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MeanMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 09, 2015 02:51 PM |
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Personally, I like the colors of H7 a lot better than the overly bonbon-esque, apoplexy encouraging color palette of H6.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2015 03:08 PM |
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For me the colors go pretty much:
H6<<<<Optimal colors>>>H5>>>>>>>>>>H7>concrete wall from reality
H6 had too "deep"/saturated colors for my taste, but the world certainly looked and felt magical.
H5 was quite plain with designs, yet colorful. At same time it could have been more fairy-tale like.
H7 feels so extremely plain to me that I don't even feel like it's in any magical place or fantasy-world to me. I couldn't even imagine some dystopia-game using such plain colors and so little contrast. For me it's the first game in the series that doesn't feel like it's placed in a magical fantasy world, I just can't get any immersion out of it
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 09, 2015 06:00 PM |
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Fnord has always been pretty clear and fair in his posting at CH. His position in that review is quite understandable.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 09, 2015 07:28 PM |
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IGN Spain: 70/100
Quote:
A game that's a better homage than a new iteration on a franchise that has been around for 20 years. Unpolished but still fun, only the most hardcore fans of the series could fully enjoy the proposal.
Gaming Nexus: 70/100
Quote:
Might & Magic Heroes VII is an okay game overall, but seems like it’s more for existing fans of the series and doesn’t cater to new comers at all. With no tutorial whatsoever it took me a good hour or so just to get started. Outside of that the difficulty can be adjusted, but the ability to auto-play battles makes things a tad easier than expected. This one is definitely not for newcomers to the series unless you don’t mind fumbling around on your own for a bit while you get your bearings.
Gameplanet: 45/100
Quote:
Bland visuals, rehashed game play, and constant bugs and minor irritations completely overshadow the core Heroes experience. These criticisms, along with the game's complete lack of new ideas, makes it the weakest entry in the long running series. Might & Magic: Heroes VII is best avoided and forgotten.
Galaad said:
PS. @Storm-Giant: I think Alci is right suggesting to include full ending paragraph from Koalition's review to the OP instead of just last sentence as I did.
Ok, I'll change that.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 09, 2015 07:34 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 19:36, 09 Oct 2015.
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Gry-online.pl: 7.5/10
Quote:
If you've played everything, what series has to offer and crave for new adventures, you can sure go and get Heroes VII - unless you're allergic to bugs, then wait for a couple of months until Limbic fixes the game.
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Quique30
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 09, 2015 07:39 PM |
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If Ubi's goal was to make a game for the fans, as I read somewhere Erwan intended, then that's probably close to the root of the problem, IMO.
Because what would be a game for the fans? What do they (us) want?
Just reading some posts here and in the official forums, you see lots of different opinions. Heck, you even notice contradictions in posts made by the same person, like: Rating as a minus the amount of stuff copied from the previous games, but complaining there aren't any destiny features in the game.
So in that sense, although I wouldn't go so far as to blame the fans of the game's "failures", some of the "feedback" provided must have affected the game negatively.
Anyway...I don't share it, but I kinda see where that reviewer's opinion is coming from.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 09, 2015 11:08 PM |
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WCCFTech: 54/100
Quote:
Might & Magic Heroes, or Heroes of Might and Magic, is one of the longest running franchises in PC gaming history. Spanning seven main games in the series, with seven spin-offs for both PC and consoles, in the past twenty years, it should be a celebrated franchise that has the care it deserves. From the deterioration in the previous two entries, particularly Might & Magic Heroes VII, I don’t see a particularly bright future ahead.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted October 09, 2015 11:23 PM |
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Ouch
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2015 03:39 AM |
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The funny-sad thing is that most reviewers seem to agree that its a game that doesnt add anything new and its mostly for previous fans while most of the people here say they changed too much and dislike it 
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted October 10, 2015 10:32 AM |
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Edited by Datapack at 10:45, 10 Oct 2015.
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GenyaArikado said:
The funny-sad thing is that most reviewers seem to agree that its a game that doesnt add anything new and its mostly for previous fans while most of the people here say they changed too much and dislike it
That's because the core gameplay is bad.
I'm fairly sure everyone would be happy with a updated H2-3 running in U4.
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This thread is pages long: 
