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| Thread: Worst skill (HOMM3) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · NEXT» |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 11:33 AM |
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Poll Question:
Worst skill (HOMM3)
What do you think is the worst skill in the game?
You can't vote for Navigation, since this skill could potentially be as important as Logistics on water maps.
This is my bottom 5:
1) Learning - What exactly does this skill do for you, very few stat points for 3 wasted skill levels. This is the worst of the worst.
2) First Aid - Effect of First Aid is very small and tent is destroyed very easily, rendering the skill useless.
3) Eagle Eye - You are lucky if this skill do anything for you. Does'nt learn adventure spells unlike Scholar, can't learn level 5 spells, can't learn spells from creatures and it's chance based. This skill has way to many limitations.
4) Mysticism - You gain very few mana from this. Just stay in a town, visit a well, magic spring or mana vortex, collect the Wizard's Well which is'nt that hard to assemble. Also Intelligence is much better.
5) Probably Scholar - I would rarely choose this skill on a main hero and other heroes probably can't teach your main much.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 03, 2015 11:43 AM |
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Learning is for having a good start in the game.
Eagle eye is primarily for battling many heroes; suitable for Fortress and Stronghold towns. Similar goes to Scholar.
Mysticism is when not having much knowledge, yet having no mana well or towns nearby.
First Aid is (more or less) for healing azure dragons, if having them.
Scouting is for large maps only.
Sorcery works well with powerful spells, like Implosion.
That being said, all of the skills are useful in right conditions. But for an average map, I'd say Eagle Eye. It would be more useful if there were spellcasting units, like in H4 and H5, to take more advantage of it.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 12:04 PM |
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But there IS spellcasting units: Ogre Mages, Master Genies, Enchanters, Fairy Dragons and Elementals. (Plus Satyrs in HotA)
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 12:19 PM |
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Edited by Kicferk at 12:19, 03 Oct 2015.
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So my answer is for competetive multiplayer scenarios, which are played on L maps or larger.
Scholar is fairly useful to have on a scout. It can get your main slow or haste when it is not in the guild, or some of high level spells from specialities that other heroes have(chain lightning, resurrection, meteor shower). It is also useful to teach all your scouts town portal your main got from pandora box(in all earth, all 4 or all magic one). So far from the most useless.
First aid also has some uses, though again, not a good skill on main. If you get a lvl 7 creature early (mercenry camp) you can take some tougher fights.
Scouting is actually pretty useful. Even for main hero, once he gets dd. It comes from commonplace ban for cartographer, if you jump to a new part of treasure area, extra 3 tiles you can see is a lot. And 5 is a lot in almost any circumstances.
Sorcery, learning, eagle eye and mysticism suck. But sorcery and mysticism can be marginlly useful for a scout. So a tough competition against learning and eagle eye.
While learning is objectively a waste of slot, with around 1 extra point in main skills, there are some rare cases when it would be useful. Getting to library of enlightenment when xp is just below 10k. I know, I know, it is sooo rare and unreliable. But it's still better than eagle eye. Which i useful if you don't have a spell, and can force enemy to cast it, and then get away with it, and not lose much army.
So the one spell you can learn from it is the most common spell in the bunch: magic arrow. IMO that is less useful than the minute benefits learning gives.
Also, eagle eye only allows you to learn spells cast by heroes, not by creatures.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 03, 2015 12:28 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
But there IS spellcasting units: Ogre Mages, Master Genies, Enchanters, Fairy Dragons and Elementals. (Plus Satyrs in HotA)
Not in the sense to pull out a creature's spellbook and point a spell, then cast it out. Besides, all but ogre mages have random spells to be cast out.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 12:32 PM |
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Kicferk said:
Also, eagle eye only allows you to learn spells cast by heroes, not by creatures.
Yes we know, we we're saying it would be better if it could pick up spells from creatures.
And yes Scholar is okay for teaching Town Portal, Res/AD, Chain Ligthing, Meteor Shower and Prayer but it requires Expert Scholar and the other hero to have Adv. Wisdom and in case of Res also Adv. Earth Magic.
Sorcery and Scouting is okay imo. (Scouting especially in HotA)
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 12:37 PM |
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@EnergyZ Elementals (and Satyrs) does not cast random spells and what does it matter if they are random anyway?
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 12:44 PM |
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Edited by Kicferk at 12:44, 03 Oct 2015.
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Some heroes start with both scholar and wisdom. So you only need to lvl them up to level 5, fairly easy week 2-3.
I have seen a game when passing resurrection was attempted in order to take a dragon utopia with troglodytes 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 01:25 PM |
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Kicferk said:
I have seen a game when passing resurrection was attempted in order to take a dragon utopia with troglodytes
Okay, that sounds pretty cool, still situations like that are rare.
And trying to max Wisdom and Scholar might get in the way of other usefull skills, would you turn down Earth Magic or Logistics for Scholar?
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 01:33 PM |
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Depends on a situation of course. If I felt I need that lvl 4 spell then earth or log on a scout is a small price to pay.
Also, basic scholar is very useful on Jebus maps fairly often. Just for haste and slow that may not appear in guilds you build, but that some heroes start with.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 01:42 PM |
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Yeah, it might have it's use, still does'nt feel very important to me, unlike Wisdom, Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense and Armorer.
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BlackMagik
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 02:00 PM |
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My vote for Eagle Eye. What were the devs smoking when they came up with this one?
The chance of learning a useful spell (even if you have all three EE artifacts on a specialist) is small and hardly worth taking up a precious skill slot.
Just above EE is Mysticism. The idea is good...the application too weak. A hero could expend several hundred mana in a big battle and the idea of recovering, at max, 5 mana/day is ludicrous.
Next would be Learning. Useful to get off to a fast start, but has diminishing returns the further into a game you get. Again, with a long-term perspective for a game, not worth the precious skill slot.
First Aid is just too variable from one turn to the next, the tent is too easy a target. While perhaps useful if you have a single high-level creature, mass Cure seems to me to be generally better. Assemble the Elixir of Life when possible.....
I know it's fashionable to diss Sorcery, and it probably IS too weak for multi-player use. But having the skill on a spell specialist (like Meteor Shower or Chain Lightning) or a Sorcery specialist combined with one of the elemental Orbs, can be quite painful for an enemy....
It's definitely useful to have one hero on your team with Scholar. I've had situations with as many as a dozen Mage 4 guilds and no Town Portal amongst them...but one hero picks it up from a Pandora's box or a wandering monk. Also useful when the town where you do get TP from the mage guild is on the other side of the map from your main heroes, and your scholar hero is right there....
Scouting is certainly useful until you get most of the map uncovered. Nothing wrong with having a scout w/logistics moving ahead of a main character....
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 02:28 PM |
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Yeah Sorcery is'nt so bad to me either, if it should be improved it should just be by 5% per level imo. I know Salamandre, says this skill sucks even though his avatar specialise in it. 
Actually Mysticism regenerates only 4 mana at expert, same as a treasure artifact. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 03, 2015 02:52 PM |
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The only one which is a total waste is Learning, do the maths: what it costs you to up it until expert, what it gives back. No matter competitive or noobinitive.
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 02:54 PM |
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So most skills that I consider useless are the ones that had a good idea but bad execution. For example, learning. I consider eagle eye, mysticism, first aid and sorcery to be in the same cathegory.
But if you want to know exactly how to use eagle eye, it's the following:
1. You get a scout with eagle eye speciality. There are tons of them, more than any other speciality I think.
2. you level him/her up a few levels until you get expert eagle eye.
3. you make his army either large enough or split enough(or consisting correct units) to trick enemy into using the spell you want
4. you run or surrender with the spell
5. you use a hero with scholar and wisdom that you had before to teach the spell to everyone
The process has many weak points :/
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 03, 2015 02:56 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Scholar - I would rarely choose this skill on a main hero and other heroes probably can't teach your main much.
I completly desagree with this. I always feel a warm in my heart when I see Aine in tavern. Do I want her for main? No. But now I'm sure my main, who ever he is, will learn all usefull spells much, much sooner. It is quite easy to use poorman's TP on an hero whose main value is not what he brings to a fight. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 03, 2015 03:06 PM |
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The problem is that you have only 8 slots. Therefore you don't even consider skills which have a creative idea behind, as first aid or eagle eye. I mean, is very interesting to go battle out with one angel and expert tent, almost invincible in melee vs slow. But also you won't skip a "always good" skill for one which is useful and fun only in a few situations. I love all Heroes III skills, but when you have to pick, it is quickly full, without hesitations.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 03, 2015 04:18 PM |
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Salamandre said:
The only one which is a total waste is Learning, do the maths: what it costs you to up it until expert, what it gives back. No matter competitive or noobinitive.
Looks like we agree 100% on this Salamandre. Will you put a vote on Learning?
I also agree that maybe there would be more room for those skills if there where more than 8 slots. That's why I would personally like 10 skill slots, but I guess a lot of people disagree with me on this.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 03, 2015 04:30 PM |
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It's my guess that learning came from the Might and Magic series, where I find it to be one of the better skills. (Made the difference of level ~85 char that in stead got to lvl ~120, iIrC).
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Living time backwards
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 03, 2015 04:40 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
That's why I would personally like 10 skill slots, but I guess a lot of people disagree with me on this.
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