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| Thread: Mistakes of Heroes I to VII |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 05, 2015 01:02 PM |
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Galaad said:
Also, new assets for a new game could help here. And please, can we have things more tasteful, like mythology inspired? Strider and Wooden Snake what the hell really.
Sure thing. Though this is just an expectation Ubi gets kicked in the head, changes the MM team and we have a superb game.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 05, 2015 01:10 PM |
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Yes, and when you look at it, even the mythological creatures suffer from being in Ashan. Look at upgraded Mino for instance, seriously why does he have golden armoring with rubys, a fancy haircut and purple tatoos on his face? This is just bad taste.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 05, 2015 01:11 PM |
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Galaad said:
EnergyZ said:
But it is not good if the factions have the same line-ups over and over.
I actually think everybody agrees here. As I've always said, as long as the spirit is there you can do whatever you want with the factions. Actually please do so. Just keep the min 1 max 3 staples per faction into the game (some can even move from a faction to another like in the old games as Hermes suggested elsewhere) and change the rest.
I'd actually advocate against this, but I know I'm in the minority here. I think it's very hard to reach agreement on what the "staples" of each faction are, certainly so if you need to cut them down to only 3. I think you are fooling yourself if you believe this can be done smoothly. Case of point: Current Sylvan has what I'd consider 5 staples (Pixie, Hunter, Druid, Treant, Green Dragon), yet look how furious people are with Unicorn not being there.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 05, 2015 01:20 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:29, 05 Oct 2015.
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I think there is difference between a unit representative of a faction because of time and what we consider ourselves as such. People consider Unicorn to be a staple because is there in every other game than h7. Same goes with Elven Archer (which made it in h7). Treant is only there in h3 and h5 (and h7), therefore is not really a staple, even if it fits perfectly well the faction. About the green drag, well I'm part of the people who where sad for absence of Phoenix there in h3, but that's indeed my personal preference.
That being said, I could envision completely new factions and be fine with them if they have a feel from Heroes of Might and Magic, not from Warhammer or whatever is the other successful brand of the moment.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted October 05, 2015 05:43 PM |
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JJ, could you elaborate on your last point? I'm afraid I'm not quite following.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 05, 2015 07:34 PM |
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He said, as I gather, it's a matter whether they choose shaping mechanics differently due the game being 3D (or instead, they could create mechanics and then shape 3D around it, which should prove the way you would be willingly to agree with, because the former, shaping things only because it's 3D, might end with not a proper design and waste of resources, the sake of being 3D only because it's 3D), as well as an example with lore, shaping the mechanics around lore (as it's been done with H7), or shaping lore around mechanics.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 05, 2015 07:43 PM |
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Since HoMM is 3d, everything is geared to visuals.
Example: Combat models. You can zoom in until you see them in all their beauty (if any) - even though that is of no relevance for combat. On the contrary, zooming in too close is detrimental for gaming, since you don't see the battlefield and the other units anymore. So the detailed creature model serves no purpose, actually, at least none that would be game-relevant.
When you look at AoW3 instead, things are a lot less zoomable and detailed. AoW 3 features 398 different units currently. They have hexes. To get the sizes right, they simply have each unit represented by a different number of creatures - simple, but effective - even though, it's always one single unit when it comes to combat mechanics (a unit keeps its full damage, if if the graphic shows "losses".
So that's what I mean. 3d is fine as long as they don't forget it's a mix of strategy and RPG with tactical battles.
Another (unrelated) thing I could get a fit of is, how for a lot of reviews it would seem that only the campaign(s) is/are of interest. There is your game time (50+ hours) - so do you play the game and then throw the game away, like you just played an advanture? What kind of idiots are at work reviewing games in such a way? Is it a wonder, game balance is something that's completely back row? Flashy scripted campaign stuff is important, the bread-and-butter isn't seen.
And then look at how it is done: AoW 3 even has a PBEM gaming mode - which is actually a blast and the goddamn holy grail of gaming for people who can't sit 10 hours nonstop playing live MP because they have a family, but still enjoy playing against other humans. Both turn-based and simultanneous gaming mode, an insanely good RMG, a dev team that is avidly discussing with players has always a patch in beta state at steam in test, listens to what the players are discussing, are aware that different gaming modes lead to different balance problems - and will work on each bug and answer asap when you report something.
But I'm raving. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 05, 2015 07:52 PM |
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okay, we make comparisons, but what about budgets? What is Aow 3 budget then H7, anyone has an idea?
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 05, 2015 07:57 PM |
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Not me. AoW 3's budget can't be that big, though.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 05, 2015 08:38 PM |
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Galaad said:
That being said, I could envision completely new factions and be fine with them if they have a feel from Heroes of Might and Magic, not from Warhammer or whatever is the other successful brand of the moment.
Might work for you, but you couldn't do this without having a major group of fans going very vocal (not about toning down the Warhammer/Warcraft influences, but abaout rebooting factions completely). I'd say there are 4-5 creatures in each faction that you'd have to keep if you'd avoid having major complaints.
JollyJoker said:
Another (unrelated) thing I could get a fit of is, how for a lot of reviews it would seem that only the campaign(s) is/are of interest. There is your game time (50+ hours) - so do you play the game and then throw the game away, like you just played an advanture? What kind of idiots are at work reviewing games in such a way? Is it a wonder, game balance is something that's completely back row? Flashy scripted campaign stuff is important, the bread-and-butter isn't seen.
You can hardly blame the reviews for that, at least not solely, when you see how much emphasis is put on the campaigns in the promotion of the game from the developer's side. When you see the presentation movies, it's always "Follow the story of Ivan; discover Ashan; yada-yada-yada".
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What will happen now?
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 05, 2015 08:43 PM |
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And that's the main part. Keep the creatures, though it does not have to be in the same faction over and over. Though it should make also sense to put the creature in correct faction, for not any amount of lore can allow, say, bone dragons in Haven. Without getting the fans upset, that is.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 05, 2015 08:47 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Might work for you, but you couldn't do this without having a major group of fans going very vocal (not about toning down the Warhammer/Warcraft influences, but abaout rebooting factions completely). I'd say there are 4-5 creatures in each faction that you'd have to keep if you'd avoid having major complaints.
Yes I was speaking for me. That said I'm not annoyed seeing same lineups for the major parts, as long as they are not the same assets from the previous game.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted October 06, 2015 12:29 PM |
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Salamandre said:
okay, we make comparisons, but what about budgets? What is Aow 3 budget then H7, anyone has an idea?
aow3 was funded by notch (markus persson), of minecraft fame, so i would actually guess that it had a larger budget than h7.
that being said,
homm is the epitome of the ultimate play by email game - the fact that ubi hasnt figured this out and instead continually tries to push the series down a more single player rpg route is the most glaring sign that they really dont know what theyre doing with this brand yet..
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 06, 2015 12:42 PM |
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That should have been obvious for a while now.
But I'm embarrassed to ask, how exactly does play by mail work? Never tried it in the older times.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 06, 2015 01:03 PM |
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Elvin said:
That should have been obvious for a while now.
But I'm embarrassed to ask, how exactly does play by mail work? Never tried it in the older times.
Pretty much like Chess by e-mail. Player makes a move and then sends that info to the other player. I am guessing that for a game like HoMM, the result is encrypted to avoid data manipulation. You don't need to transfer anything but the player's actions, as long as the map and random seed are exactly the same on either side. What one player did is then inserted into the other player's game.
A battle between players may be tricky, though.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 06, 2015 01:17 PM |
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Kinda like what I expected. Should be a decent time-saver but that's what sim turns are for nowadays. Unless there are conflicting time schedules..
I hate not finishing a game in 1-2 sessions myself.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 06, 2015 04:15 PM |
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I can play maximum 4-5 turns per session now. That is 3 sessions for week 1 & 2. Week 3 turns become faster. So expect minimum 5 sessions with me..
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