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| Thread: Heroes VII pre-release faults |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Mageus
Hired Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 02:00 PM |
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Edited by Mageus at 14:46, 29 May 2016.
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EnergyZ said:
Nobody says I played Heroes VII. But I think I'll have to play it sometime, for the sake of personal experience. Well, only if the size of the game is compact, how much did the patches increase the size of the game?
It is quite heavy : 14 gb
EnergyZ said:
Have you ever been on the dev site (or any fan site that shared info about the Heroes VII before it was released)?
Nope. I had downloaded H5 again and was curious to see the complete patch list so I googled it ... and realized H7 was to be released a few weeks after.
EnergyZ said:
A lot of news was being put into analysis - images, videos, texts, etc. And the interaction between devs (or community managers at least) and fans was basically severed off. Yes, they did reply to a lot of comments, but when there was -clearly- something the fans really wanted (to be changed), most of the time such desires were ignored, the only time I can think of is that vote of [url=https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/vote-for-the-lich-design]lich[/url] and [url=https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/vote-for-the-vampire-design]vampire[/url].
Another example is the time when [url=https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/the-city-of-the-spider-cult]Necropolis faction[/url] was revealed, there was a lot of rage, yelling (could be even fighting in the real world).
I followed the points you linked and I am not sure to understand. There were several design (for creatures) that were liked about the same and they chose one that had a score barely higher. I really don't think that this "choice by the fans" system was a good idea to start with but I think I am missing your point. Could you elaborate?
As for the necropolis if the comments from march 2015 and later seem mostly positive I suppose you are mentionning the comments of february (some with interresting ideas). (Coming back to that when answering your final question).
EnergyZ said:
Well, there's that Christmas wish as well that the devs promised a random skill system and it turned out to be gross for a lot of people.
The officials did not care much and even posted that abysmal shop button, outraging people further at the idea of pre-ordering such a game. And when they did react, it was about [url=https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy]that shameful article of the skillwheel[/url].
The skillwheel, limited as it is and the level cap were poor choices that I agree on 
Especially when there are still a few combinations that are so perfect I feel like I am playing one level of difficulty lesser with them (on adventure map, campaigns are blocked at casual difficulty anyway).
EnergyZ said:
All of this being said - do you not think the gameplay experience could've been a lot better, if the devs (and Erwan) made different, better choices?
As mentionned before, there are only few design issues I don't like and I don't even know if that is just me or if it is shared. I dislike the offensive spells in the school of light, the prime magic (the fact it appeared in h6 does not help) the factions where none of the classes can have the skillset I wish and finally the flank system (which I like) but is not complete until you can at least ask a unit to change the direction it is facing (costing movement).
If above is a bit annoying, the bugs are game breaking and not expected from an aaa game. But again a AAA game requires ressources they obviously did not have (one person for the AI ...) .
EDIT :
There is another design flaw I forgot but is really obvious when starting H5.5 : the campaign! The H5 campaign were epic (just the battle intro is really nice). Even H6 had a great intro with the angel betrayal. H7? A dude is aimlessly thinking to what should be done and a shallow presentation of the factions. The whole thing presented as a static round of table where the player only reenacts something that happened in the past (except for the final campaign). Now that's a very weird choice to me.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 29, 2016 02:12 PM |
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Mageus said:
EnergyZ said:
A lot of news was being put into analysis - images, videos, texts, etc. And the interaction between devs (or community managers at least) and fans was basically severed off. Yes, they did reply to a lot of comments, but when there was -clearly- something the fans really wanted (to be changed), most of the time such desires were ignored, the only time I can think of is that vote of lich and vampire.
Another example is the time when Necropolis faction was revealed, there was a lot of rage, yelling (could be even fighting in the real world).
I followed the points you linked and I am not sure to understand. There were several design (for creatures) that were liked about the same and they chose one that had a score barely higher. I really don't think that this "choice by the fans" system was a good idea to start with but I think I am missing your point. Could you elaborate?
It's rather simple. Devs pushed their own agenda (created by Erwan) and a lot of decisions at the start of the development were to be final, so there was very little that could be changed. Only through yelling and spamming did community manage to get the devs to launch those two votes, to redesign lich and vampire creatures, simply because they were unacceptable and copied from Heroes VI - Vampire looking a lot like Arthas from Warcraft and the fleshy lich that should never have been called a lich (since they are supposed to be skeletal and have been in nearly all games).
The other thing they also did is having people come to their conference in France, to show them a bit about the Stronghold faction. Some people (even from this site) did come. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't help but feel such money could've been spent in development of the game.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!
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Mageus
Hired Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 02:32 PM |
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Oh thanks that's why you mentionned it. I did not know it was because the fans did not like the vampire and lich design that they proposed this vote (and ended up not changing anything if I understand correctly).
Anyway it is not like anyone like skelettal liches, right? (looks at avatar) Ooops
I don't know, to me those lich look like the skyrim ones, I don't think it is necessarely bad. A more "heroes" style of lich could have been better but why would they change it if most of the voters chose option 1 (even by a very short call)? With more means they could also keep doing sketches until one is clearly favored by the fans but that could cause delay and better reelease the game as fast as possible as we all know.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 29, 2016 05:09 PM |
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think you got a bit muddled there mate, originally they tried the sly, chancer move of reusing the dreadful H6 Lich and Vampire wholesale (only bothering their arse to run the textures under desaturation filter in Photoshop), thus there was a big ****storm at this cheap laziness, then after much rebellion they begrudgingly agreed to create better models and put the models to a vote,
which was fine, but the point being that they were clueless, they tried to reuse a lot of crap from Heroes 6 (not only bad assets but much worse, bad game design) and most cases they were able to get away with it and thus destroy the game, the fans weren't able to stop them because they lied to us and kept their plans shrouded from us lol
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Mageus
Hired Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 07:46 PM |
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Edited by Mageus at 19:47, 29 May 2016.
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Reusing elements from previous games usually is a good idea, a shame here the previous game was H6 :s Even more so with limited funds and I regret they would not try reuse H5 AI more. I don't think it was possible though.
I don't think you get how bad the lack of ressources are. I am a software engeneer (not in game though) and for our product we have several hundreds developpers working full time on it and quite a few have a decade or more work in the same team (not me I am a junior). So when I hear they were fifteen to do this game and one dude alone on the AI I must say I wonder how they did it and I am not much surprised about the bugs. I am not in the gaming industry because there are mostly low pay jobs with lots of working hours (plus often they don't really code but just use already built engines).
SO how I see it for it to be possible is that they probably had to rush the development all the way : little to no testing (unitary testing are good practice but takes time upfront while correcting bugs takes tame afterware), programmers doing endless hours and thus hard to manage, scratching code here and there when possible (guessing the technology used for H6 was closer to the one used for H7 hence they tried to reuse that).
As for destroying the game : honestly many things feel really good (to me). And I am pretty convinced than when they do fix the bugs and the AI (probably one of two more years at least at this rate) it will be a great game for almost every one. I will eventually write in the "positive feedbacks" thread as to the positive parts, hard to see between the bugs, the lacky campaign design (with extremely bad AI, way worst in campaign than on adventure maps) and the lack of customisation for heroes depending on the faction as of now.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 29, 2016 08:26 PM |
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I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree a bit or lack the full picture on this one mate, when I invoke "they" the specific "they" in question is Ubisoft's Team Erwin dontcha know, meanwhile the "they" you're talking of here is the developer Limbic,
it's one thing to spin the picture of a small bargain basement team embarking on a difficult endeavor with many trials and tribulations, fifteen underdog guys, and so on, but they're not really who we're talking about and ultimately irrelevant to this topic, frankly in an ideal world shouldn't even have been hired or come into the discussion at all, this topic is about "the choices Ubi has failed to execute", Ubisoft is the software publisher responsible for setting the budget and constraints, and Team Erwin is their sub delegation responsible for managing Might and Magic,
Team Erwin orchestrated the Shadow Council votes and negotiated the low budget, the schedule, hired the developer etc, it was their call whether to rest the series or argue to wait for more favorable funding, but in their chancer attitude and lust for a quick paycheck they decided to press on with very few resources and hope for the best, basically I think many of us agree this was the wrong decision,
however also be careful to bear in mind that many of their terrible choices and Limbic's terrible choices had absolutely nothing to do with time and funding, a lot of potential was squandered due to incompetence, ignorance of the community's advice and lack of research, which this topic I think is to identify lol
Mageus said:
As for destroying the game : honestly many things feel really good (to me).
that's no problem to like it for what it is subjectively mate, but objectively the game tanked in reviews on all fronts and lost about 500,000 players since Heroes 6 which indicates general consensus that it is not a good game lol,
Mageus said:
And I am pretty convinced than when they do fix the bugs and the AI (probably one of two more years at least at this rate) it will be a great game for almost every one.
never gonna happen
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 08:48 PM |
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Pretty sure what verriker meant was less that reusing previous assets was bad and more that certain reused assets were bad choices. The Earth/Fire/Air elementals? Good picks. The flamboyant assassin attire? Not so much. Haven being a reskin for the most part? Mostly fine, especially given how gaudy the H6 version was. Repainting the lich and vampire? Negative outcry until they redid them.
On a side note, I would not be surprised - or even that offended - if the inevitable Inferno faction ended up being mostly reused assets. From a unit aesthetic level, I thought H6 had the best Inferno yet. We already know they've already reused the Lilim and Juggernaut, so other reused models like the Pit Lords (YES PLEASE!  ) or Demented (hey, I liked them) would be predictable and even acceptable on my end. Really, if there's one thing I'd change from H6 Inferno, it's giving Cerberus its third head back.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 29, 2016 08:56 PM |
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I hated H6 Inferno's design, looks like a bunch of red blobs and zergs to me.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 09:10 PM |
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Galaad said:
I hated H6 Inferno's design, looks like a bunch of red blobs and zergs to me.
Zergs? Okay, sure, the Breeders, but nothing else strikes me as particularly zergy. Maybe Voldoesque, as with the Demented, but that's a design I can get behind for creepy demon guys. Yeah, perhaps the red was a bit overkill, but I generally liked the "Balrog" look of the Pit Lords and, to a letter extent, the Juggernauts. As for the Lilims, Succubi are Succubi and its hard to screw those up.
My cut/fix list would be the aforementioned Cerberi, the Breeders (okay, but could be better), and the boring spiky guys who are so bland that I can't even remember their names. Everything else is fine in my book.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 29, 2016 09:46 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:47, 29 May 2016.
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That's the thing, while it looked good, it felt like a bunch of random red humanoids/things. And I'd rather have a bad@ss rather than a creepy inferno. Not easy to tell where the line is drawn but I would prefer more recognizable demons.
Balrog-demon is good. Classic juggernaut-demon is fine. Cerberus is good if it gets a proper design.. Succubus is good. But demented and tormentors were superfluous and breeders.. questionable. I do like lovecraft but somehow that unit did not make a good impression.
One unit I would really like to see is this. Simply bad@ss.
That and efreet of course.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 29, 2016 09:56 PM |
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Elvin said:
Simply bad@ss.
Who will make this in 3D?
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 09:58 PM |
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I didn't mind h6 inferno. I agree with the tormentors and demented being crap but I thought the breeder was quite "hellish" looking. I am 100% over the succubuss though. Inferno is one of those factions I think the whole female quota thing should be ignored...
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted May 29, 2016 09:58 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:59, 29 May 2016.
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Elvin said:
One unit I would really like to see is this. Simply bad@ss.
Another flailing, red, horned, naked human can we have an interesting Inferno for once?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted May 29, 2016 10:01 PM |
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@Galaad
People here would complain that its overly decorated and too spikey. But then again its from Heroes III so everything is forgiven.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 10:05 PM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 22:08, 29 May 2016.
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Galaad said:
Who will make this in 3D?
I get the feeling the Ashan version of that would be close to this:
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 10:19 PM |
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Guys, Inferno in Ashan doesn't suck because of unit design; it sucks because it's not part of it. Inferno is a locust swarm - and one with respawning technology - err, magic.
For me, it simply lost faction status along the line. And as the chaos freaks, faction is a way too ordered concept.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 29, 2016 10:20 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Guys, Inferno in Ashan doesn't suck because of unit design
Not only. 
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted May 29, 2016 10:33 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Inferno is a locust swarm - and one with respawning technology - err, magic.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Inferno in Might and Magic always technically a swarm?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 29, 2016 10:38 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
@Galaad
People here would complain that its overly decorated and too spikey. But then again its from Heroes III so everything is forgiven.
Not the impression I got. There is tastefully decorated and there is tacky over-the-top decorated.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2016 10:46 PM |
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As whole I really disliked the h6 inferno, really hope they would make major changes to it.
Succubus: Wasn't fan of the dominatrix at all, much preferred the more creature like appearance from h5.
Demented: I kinda liked them I guess. They had this nice vibe about actually being tormented souls bound by the chains(bit like h5 ghosts who were shackled).
Cerberus: Hated. Just hated them. two headed dogs that looked like crap in both forms.
Breeder: Big red blob... I dunno where this zerg came from but it should've stayed there, it was just terrible in really bad way.
Tormentor: It kinda reminded me of zerg too, but I kinda liked the unit actually. Porcupine attack was a tad too much though to me.
Ravager: I hated to be honest. It just always reminded me of the jaguar warrior and they felt really underwhelming. Most smaller units felt much stronger and more useful than these guys so it kinda ate the feel of powerful demon too, overall I just didn't like them at all.
Pitlord: I liked them. They really looked like they bring to the tormented aspect half the faction was striving for.
To me cerberus, breeder and ravager would be the h6 models I would least like to see if inferno ever gets added.
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