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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 04, 2017 02:46 PM |
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xexamedes said:
Quick coin and totalised energy to simply hit the reward nodes? (Marking the lower nodes as beaten with zero score on completion)
That'd be fine by me.
Meanwhile, I keep on trying to die in my own Dungeon, strictly impossible. Sigh.
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2017 07:05 PM |
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Galaad said:
hayenne said:
This does not seem right to me. I almost never have lower than 30% def rate - maybe time to reconsider your dungeon?
I've tried everything possible and my creatures are awakened/totemed, all 3 dots minimums with some 4 dots. I usually try different setups during a challenge when I see it doesn't work. I even sent some screens to Dulkan in private and he told me probably all the people who would lose to my defense didn't attack in the first place. I lack Kangoo and Beetle because I didn't have time during that event, but it's not like you shouldn't be able to get something viable if you lack these two right?
I remember your defense, one of the strongest I encountered (1 loss, 2 wins or smth like that), should be way above 30% IMO.
I think I remember beating Truth's defense too, but how many guys with his rate, three, four?
I don't have kangaroo either and my beetle is only half awakened but I can usually manage around 20%. My defense also seems actually a little better with fully awakened ogre than it does with half awakened beetle so you might as well say I don't have beetle.
Also, I have had the worst luck at medium flyers and still use some 2d as a result so you should even have an advantage on me.
Must be something else going wrong in your dungeon.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 05, 2017 07:55 PM |
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Are you in Gold Tier? I never see 2 dots or half-awakened creatures in dungeons.
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 05, 2017 10:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
Are you in Gold Tier? I never see 2 dots or half-awakened creatures in dungeons.
Yup. 2d creatures aren't too uncommon in gold really. I never look at the dungeon in advance but if you ever see a mob with 5 on his countdown timer that's a 2d and I see it pretty regularly once you get out of the top 30 or 40 players.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 06, 2017 12:15 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:17, 06 Jun 2017.
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Heh, I never encountered them before but after you tell me this I actually started looking for them and indeed, there is some utterly weak defenses among low prestige guys.
These are current defense rates of top 10 from the group I'm in:
#1 (lvl 239): 23,1%
#2 (lvl 320) : 30%
#3 (lvl 236) : 15,1%
#4 (lvl265) : 6,1%
#5 (lvl 201) : 24,2%
#6 (lvl 275) : 16,7%
#7 (lvl lvl 350) : 16,7%
#8 (lvl 250) : 9,1%
#9 (lvl 218) : 5,9%
#10 (lvl 226) : 12%
In general from challenge to challenge these are the numbers I'm used to see. Very rarely I see something above 50%.
This has been like this ever since I started playing the game, so I insist the defense system of CQ is really weak. Wave 1 is like 90% of your defense then the rest is mana fill. Offensively it's not very interesting and defensively quite frustrating for me.
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xexamedes
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 09:48 AM |
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my group:
#1 (304 stickers) 43.2%
#2 (350 stickers) 39.7%
#3 (350 stickers) 41.3%
#4 (260 HC kreegans)35.2%
#5 (253 MoS) 32.1%
#6 (312 squares) 26.1%
#7 (260 armenia) 28.6%
#8 (275 888) 6.4%
#9 (223 guardians) 17.8%
#10 (239 unagi) 14.5%
3 more with 30%+ defense in the top 20, (2 avengers, 1 guardians).
Basically, the top guilds tend to have the strongest defenses, because the most active players gravitate towards those guilds. So, while I agree that defense in general needs to be strengthened, it must not be done in such a way that the top players become unassailable.
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Dulkan
Known Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 01:20 PM |
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It's natural that defense rate deteriorates as more and more people get the creatures needed to beat every defense. I think win trading is the only reason, this isn't more noticeable.
@Xexamedes
That's because the top guilds use win trading, which inflates the defense rate. I've finished events with 40-45% def-rate, which would have been 20-25% without the trading.
As I've said many times before, the last time I legitemately lost an attack was 4 weeks ago, all other losses were due to trading or crashes. I think my attack rate for the last 8 weeks combnied is somewhere around 995/1000.
It literally is impossible for any defense to beat my team unless I get really unlucky or seriously mess up and that's with me playing risky and not bringing cleanse.
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted June 06, 2017 01:25 PM |
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Galaad said:
Are you in Gold Tier? I never see 2 dots or half-awakened creatures in dungeons.
I don't really have any (good) 3 dot rare flyers, so kinda forced to use 2-dots
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 06:46 PM |
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markmasters said:
Galaad said:
Are you in Gold Tier? I never see 2 dots or half-awakened creatures in dungeons.
I don't really have any (good) 3 dot rare flyers, so kinda forced to use 2-dots
My first 3 dot rare flyer was one of those stupid easter island heads. I was so not impressed. And my second ever was....another of those stupid effing easter island heads. Seriously annoyed lol and after that I haven't seen another 3 dot rare flyer in several months. Meanwhile on the ground I have about 15 rare 3 dots.
Of course I did omit 1 fact though lol I just recently got a 4d rare flyer so I guess I can't complain too much anymore although I still have to use some 2d
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 07:09 PM |
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xexamedes said:
So, while I agree that defense in general needs to be strengthened, it must not be done in such a way that the top players become unassailable.
I think this is a very good point. Although defense could be a little better the emphasis is on the word 'little'
Improve defense too much and pretty soon you will have people at the top of the charts without ever making an attack and any attempt to knock them down just sends them up even higher. Advantage should definitely go to the attacker.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 06, 2017 07:20 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 19:23, 06 Jun 2017.
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Xexa said:
it must not be done in such a way that the top players become unassailable.
Tbh with an average of ~95-40 atk/def rates we're pretty far away from that scenario.
Quote:
Advantage should definitely go to the attacker
The advantage will always be on the attacker's side no matter what since what he is facing is AI. Currently, the only merit for having a great defense is to either a) have spent a lot of money in the game or b) have spent an enormous amount of time farming, and maybe for some, both. It isn't much strategic and imo a bit of a waste given the plethora of different creature abilities and combinations in existence that could allow to much deeper strategies and battle tactics in offense. I insist the rates speak by themselves, offense is ridiculously easy in dungeon challenges.
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 11:03 PM |
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Galaad said:
Xexa said:
it must not be done in such a way that the top players become unassailable.
Tbh with an average of ~95-40 atk/def rates we're pretty far away from that scenario.
Quote:
Advantage should definitely go to the attacker
The advantage will always be on the attacker's side no matter what since what he is facing is AI. Currently, the only merit for having a great defense is to either a) have spent a lot of money in the game or b) have spent an enormous amount of time farming, and maybe for some, both. It isn't much strategic and imo a bit of a waste given the plethora of different creature abilities and combinations in existence that could allow to much deeper strategies and battle tactics in offense. I insist the rates speak by themselves, offense is ridiculously easy in dungeon challenges.
You know the more I think about it the more I am actually OK with dungeon defense the way it is. A stronger defense just promotes bashing the crap out of little guys who cannot possibly counterattack.
I like the idea that everyone is vulnerable and you can't win by pumping in the points on day 1 and then sit back and wait for your victory. If you wanna win you gotta play the game and I think that's just fine. The game easily provides enough gems that no one should complain about the cost to buy challenge points.
Yup, I am officially gonna disagree with the world and say please no changes to pvp.
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dulkan
Known Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 11:15 PM |
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scurvynaive said:
Galaad said:
Xexa said:
it must not be done in such a way that the top players become unassailable.
Tbh with an average of ~95-40 atk/def rates we're pretty far away from that scenario.
Quote:
Advantage should definitely go to the attacker
The advantage will always be on the attacker's side no matter what since what he is facing is AI. Currently, the only merit for having a great defense is to either a) have spent a lot of money in the game or b) have spent an enormous amount of time farming, and maybe for some, both. It isn't much strategic and imo a bit of a waste given the plethora of different creature abilities and combinations in existence that could allow to much deeper strategies and battle tactics in offense. I insist the rates speak by themselves, offense is ridiculously easy in dungeon challenges.
You know the more I think about it the more I am actually OK with dungeon defense the way it is. A stronger defense just promotes bashing the crap out of little guys who cannot possibly counterattack.
I like the idea that everyone is vulnerable and you can't win by pumping in the points on day 1 and then sit back and wait for your victory. If you wanna win you gotta play the game and I think that's just fine. The game easily provides enough gems that no one should complain about the cost to buy challenge points.
Yup, I am officially gonna disagree with the world and say please no changes to pvp.
I don't see what'S fun about slogging through 6 hours of straight dungeon attacks at the end of an even, while being set back by people 200 levels behind you turning the entire thing in a luck fest, because whether a lvl 150 guy with half oyur prestige fails an attack or wins is a 200 prestige swing.
All the while you deal with the abuse possibilities of the system (trading, sniping, feeding).
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scurvynaive
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 11:39 PM |
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[quote name=dulkan
I don't see what'S fun about slogging through 6 hours of straight dungeon attacks at the end of an even, while being set back by people 200 levels behind you turning the entire thing in a luck fest, because whether a lvl 150 guy with half oyur prestige fails an attack or wins is a 200 prestige swing.
All the while you deal with the abuse possibilities of the system (trading, sniping, feeding).
If you have a way to stop trading and feeding I would love to hear it but making dungeons harder doesn't stop that.
I could see some changes to pvp so that the you cant hit the same guy over and over or maybe a few other changes like that but as far as dungeon difficulty goes I say it's fine or maybe the tiniest of tweaks harder.
I get that its frustrating to play hard the last few hours and come in 4th and that sucks but that's life sometimes. If 20 people put in 6 hours going for 3 spots guess what 17 people are gonna be disappointed every time.
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dulkan
Known Hero
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posted June 06, 2017 11:51 PM |
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Edited by dulkan at 23:52, 06 Jun 2017.
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I'm not talking about making defense too strong, but you sohuld have at least a 25% chance vs people of your level and players 100+ levels below you should have no chance at all.
What destroys the pvp system next to the abuse; i actually made a long post of improvement suggestinos on (reddit) about this; is that everybody can beat everybody. There is so little reason to invest in your defense as it's often a miracle when anybody loses to it and as such this forces a massive luck factor into the equation. When you lose top 3, because lvl 120 guy with 1/3 of your prestige somehow got you as an attack option and takes 300 prestige 2min before event end is just frustrating.
The unlimited CP buy is another scourge, I'd really appreciate a daily limit on CP use, but that would also force a rework of the attack target system to avoid players cherry picking targets.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 07, 2017 01:35 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 01:53, 07 Jun 2017.
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HC Kreegans ranked: 25.
Booo 
I ended up 3rd^^
Quote:
A stronger defense just promotes bashing the crap out of little guys who cannot possibly counterattack.
No, a stronger defense promotes better skill from attackers, and "little guys" are in lower Tiers so you don't encounter them.
Quote:
I like the idea that everyone is vulnerable and you can't win by pumping in the points on day 1 and then sit back and wait for your victory.
There is a middle ground between a 100% and a <10% defense rate. Improving defense does not mean battles won't be winnable anymore, it would allow richer gameplay and give better justice to the fantastic mechanics lying in the game's potential. Single-play is actually much more entertaining due to the increased replayability different party setups offers. Alas, it's not where the best rewards are.
Everyone being so vulnerable in the (semi)PvP just makes the experience tiresome. If the game asks me to sit and play non-stop for the evening, it has to be more entertaining than that.
Quote:
If you wanna win you gotta play the game and I think that's just fine.
If you wanna have creatures to start with you gotta play the game, there is already enough farming as it is in SP which lost some of its appeal with time. I would like much more maps and scripted battles, a difficulty layer above King and so on, all giving better rewards. Much more could (and even should) be done with this game IMO
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Isildur
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 07, 2017 01:55 AM |
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I think they should make it that whenever you lose, you lose prestige. This way people can't win trade.
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hayenne
Known Hero
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posted June 07, 2017 01:58 AM |
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dulkan said:
I don't see what'S fun about slogging through 6 hours of straight dungeon attacks at the end of an even, while being set back by people 200 levels behind you turning the entire thing in a luck fest, because whether a lvl 150 guy with half oyur prestige fails an attack or wins is a 200 prestige swing.
All the while you deal with the abuse possibilities of the system (trading, sniping, feeding).
+++
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xexamedes
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 07, 2017 08:06 AM |
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Isildur said:
I think they should make it that whenever you lose, you lose prestige. This way people can't win trade.
Agreed, although it would make crashing out on loading a challenge even more annoying.
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Isildur
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 07, 2017 08:12 AM |
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xexamedes said:
Isildur said:
I think they should make it that whenever you lose, you lose prestige. This way people can't win trade.
Agreed, although it would make crashing out on loading a challenge even more annoying.
When you crash you don't lose your orbs anymore but the defense gets the points so the system knows when the game crashes. Make it so you don't lose prestige when it crashes.
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