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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted November 02, 2019 01:04 PM |
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(Although it might be re) Please build a stronger AI. Most of us don't risk playing online since it will be interrupted by irl stuff most of the time. And for now it seems to me whatever restriction i set beforehand AI just doesn't find a way to build a solid hero for end game.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 01:45 PM |
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What could be improved about AI would be army combining.
The AI doesn't plan this at all. If he can combine forces, he sometimes will. But in a non-efficient way.
What I would like to see is AI being upgraded in a way that will make AI hire heroes just to send new population to their main hero, like a player would.
Otherwise, the AI quickly creates a couple of heroes and splits the army between them, so your main is bound to crush it sooner or later.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 02:17 PM |
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Quote:
...that will make AI hire heroes just to send new population to their main hero, like a player would
I have no idea how coding works and how much time it takes for the following changes to be implemented but with so many PvP games played over the last 20 years one could easily make the AI emulate human behavior (style of play).
I have watched some PvP games on youtube and I have noticed some patterns that could easily be added as improvements alongside the stuff that's already coded into the AI, to make the AI tougher. I am talking about buying 8 heroes right off the bat upon game start. I assume that, by default, the AI already starts with more money than the human players, so it can afford to waste 20k gold on heroes. And if it can't afford, you can code it to buy as many heroes as it can for the money that it has, then transfer all of the army to the main hero (which should obviously be already known because a ranking of all 144 heroes in H3 for example, should already exist by this moment, where Tazar is #1, CH is #2, Mephala #3, Neela #4 a.s.o)... and then code it to chain heroes like a human player
Again, I don't know how coding works so I can give as detailed instructions as possible, but programmers should have gotten my idea easily, and - if any of these programmers wants to improve the AI for free - he/she already knows how to do what I'm saying. Although... they should have done it long ago to be honest, considering how many people are whining about the poor AI.
Anyway, I don't know how coding works but if you set goals priorities for the AI - on top of it already "cheating" as it's been coded in 1998 - I think you can create a tough AI... I think...
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 02, 2019 02:30 PM |
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Edited by RerryR at 14:32, 02 Nov 2019.
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improving the AI in a meaningful way is very very difficult, maybe impossible, so no one will do it. You can ask VCMI crew about it, they can tell you a lot. Its a much easier approach to just let it cheat, that's the reason why in most games the AI cheats at the hardest difficulty. Should be possible for HotA too.
With erm commands you can create a challenging AI within one day of work if you know what you're doing.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 03:28 PM |
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 04:41 PM |
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@RerryR You know when I stopped playing Heroes 5? The day I discovered AI cheats on army population.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 06:44 PM |
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RerryR said:
improving the AI in a meaningful way is very very difficult, maybe impossible, so no one will do it. You can ask VCMI crew about it, they can tell you a lot. Its a much easier approach to just let it cheat, that's the reason why in most games the AI cheats at the hardest difficulty. Should be possible for HotA too.
With erm commands you can create a challenging AI within one day of work if you know what you're doing.
That's just adjusting numbers. It doesn't change behaviour for the better and doesn't inhibit exploits.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 02, 2019 10:04 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
@RerryR You know when I stopped playing Heroes 5? The day I discovered AI cheats on army population.
Aren’t you the one who keeps advocating to boost the enemy AI in Heroes 3 with resources and extra creatures, to make it more challenging? What’s the difference between you doing it or the original developers doing it? 
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 10:53 PM |
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Maurice said:
Aren’t you the one who keeps advocating to boost the enemy AI in Heroes 3 with resources and extra creatures, to make it more challenging? What’s the difference between you doing it or the original developers doing it?
The thing is, it makes some strategic moves I used a lot, like cutting all enemy supplies and taking all external dwellings, completely useless and if I remember correctly Heroes 5 doesn't have any type of creature banks, so is not like you can swarm the map with armies three times bigger then your town's production.
It has Diplomacy and month of the creature, though. It was because I got some Inferno monsters and gave them to my Dwarf ally that I found that, those creatures were growing in his army about 3x per week without him having any way of reinforcing them. This makes all wear out strategies pointless.
I usually play another game that cheats a lot, Battle for Middle-Earth, and I assure you, it gets really frustrating not to lose a single unit and still have the enemy getting all the bonus of a glorious victory...
* After some thought... Sorry, you're right. It's the same thing.
But then, from my experience it works pretty well in Heroes III but not on others. Maybe it's because I play this one much better, I don't know.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 11:32 PM |
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I'm not a fan of cheating AI either.
It's like you play a different game than the AI and it's immersion breaking.
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wuxiangjinxing
Hired Hero
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posted November 03, 2019 04:17 AM |
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Is it possible to remove (or increase) the limit of eight heroes for each faction? It's pretty painful to play a 252x252 with only eight heroes.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 03, 2019 07:22 PM |
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wuxiangjinxing said:
Is it possible to remove (or increase) the limit of eight heroes for each faction? It's pretty painful to play a 252x252 with only eight heroes.
Looking at the numbers, the original game had enough heroes for each player to have 16 heroes each. Don't know how much effort it would be to recode though.
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planetavril 
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2019 07:44 PM |
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from what I know you have to "dig" a lot in the original code so I don't think Team Hota is interested, however as it was written above 16 heroes are more than enough as they are more than enough factions, I don't see why to increase them
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 03, 2019 09:22 PM |
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planetavril said:
from what I know you have to "dig" a lot in the original code so I don't think Team Hota is interested, however as it was written above 16 heroes are more than enough as they are more than enough factions, I don't see why to increase them
Because the limit right now is 8 heroes per player, not 16.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 03, 2019 09:31 PM |
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To increase the number of available heroes in each faction would also be nice.
Imagine having both Sylvia and Beatrice and Elmore and Derek. (I don't like Kinkeria, instead the Learning skill % should just be doubled.) Also a new medusa specialist and perhaps a centaur and gremlin specialist could be added, if balanced right.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 03, 2019 10:10 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
To increase the number of available heroes in each faction would also be nice.
why? there's too many of them already and most are garbage. And some are just a clone of each other - Erdamon/Thunar for instance.
I'd rather see less heroes, but stronger and more diverse.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 03, 2019 10:25 PM |
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Doomforge said:
I'd rather see less heroes, but stronger and more diverse.
Hear, hear!
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 03, 2019 11:12 PM |
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Doomforge said:
why? there's too many of them already and most are garbage. And some are just a clone of each other - Erdamon/Thunar for instance.
I'd rather see less heroes, but stronger and more diverse.
For variation and to see some fresh faces. There are also still potential new specialties like medusa, centaur and gremlin and I think Curse, Misfortune and Sorrow could also be interesting. Some existing heroes could also be rebalanced like Melodia, Inteus and Astral for example. And yeah I don't like the duplicate heroes like Thunar/Erdamon, Jeddite/Alamar, Thane/Iona or Tamika/Clavius either.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2019 12:50 AM |
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As I said before, a third "inbetween" class would be awesome. Already mentioned it some time ago. So some adds could be made in this case, also some leveling diversity in case of primary and secondary gains to fill the gap.
Quote:
some examples:
Castle: Knight, Cleric, "Paladin"
Rampart: Ranger, Druid, "Warrior"
Tower: Alchemist, Wizard, "Archer"
Inferno: Demoniac, Heretic, "Apostate"
Necropolis: Dread Knight, Necromancer, "Vampire"
Dungeon: Overlord, Warlock, "Bladedancer"
Stronghold: Barbarian, Battle Mage, "Gladiator"
Fortress: Beastmaster, Witch, "Runecaster"
Conflux: Planeswalker, Elementalist, "Enchanter"
Cove: Captain, Navigator, "Rogue"
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1485344#focus
Anyway coming back to AI... You will NEVER code an useful AI for this game, coz it will always get distracted while exploring the map. Priorities may work after lots of testing time. But stuff like chaining will never work for AI same goes for any useful other resource management.
Coming back to cheating... you ever played "Genewars"? So far thats the game with the most intense cheating AI I ever played... and most time this isn't fun at all when you can't kill enemy specialist (with some exceptions -> spitting frogs  ) The AI also has eternal amounts of "goop" leading to flooding the map with creatures But same goes for any part of C&C... the AI always cheats there
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 04, 2019 02:09 AM |
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Urgh, we don't need more heroes, there's enough already. What we do need is an increase in the number of heroes per player.
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