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| Thread: Let's teach Fred how to write coherent passages |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 19, 2018 01:55 PM |
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Let's teach Fred how to write coherent passages
I'm serious. The guy could use some basic english education. He's very good at making his posts completely unreadable.
You think 1337 5â–² is bad? No man, that garbage of mixed letters, thoughts makes Celfius look like a beginner.
Free resource number one
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 02:33 PM |
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if you're not kidding, you're just an anti-gun individual attempting to ridicule me because i'm stating facts that you don't like. AND, i stated my facts quite well. i capitalize words for special emphasis, because they SHOULD be obvious to everyone actually paying attention to the matter.
if you ARE kidding me, well played; because i took the bait. but perhaps not the best timing.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 19, 2018 02:39 PM |
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I'm serious, your posts are unreadable. I'd like to follow the discussion in there but you're making it really, really hard to scourge for anything relevant in your posts.
Free resources part II
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 02:41 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
I'd like to follow the discussion in there but you're making it really, really hard to scourge for anything relevant in your posts.
of course i am. 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 19, 2018 02:43 PM |
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tHuS iF yOUd bE sO kInD tO nOt wRiTe lIkE tHiS i'D aPpReCiAtE iT!!!
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 02:49 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 15:18, 19 Feb 2018.
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yeah, i don't write like that. i only capitalize words people don't seem to understand. and if they're being especially dense, i use italics/bold/different colors as well, and i end up having to seperate entire paragraphs and break them down so that i can spoon-feed people my points. like i would with a 5 year old. because if they don't understand something that anyone SHOULD be able to understand without help(or the 1st zillion times), i feel inclined to help them understand.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 19, 2018 03:00 PM |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 19, 2018 03:06 PM |
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Have to agree with JoonasTo, capitalizing and/or bolding words disrupts the flow. I also doubt that you get the point across any better, perhaps even worse. Most people in that thread seem to be fairly intelligent in general, so they should be able to identify key thoughts and ideas as you present them.
In a silly way, it reminds me of a situation I once saw when I was on holiday in Germany. In a supermarket, some British guy was asking a question (in English) to one of the people working there, but it was obvious this person didn't speak English. How did the British guy react? Right, by speaking LOUDER. As if that made a difference  .
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 03:13 PM |
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Maurice said:
they should be able to identify key thoughts and ideas as you present them.
one would think so. sadly and infuriatingly, this isn't the case. i've repeated myself wayyyy too many times; and i always have to when discussing serious matters here. especially when it involves hot topics like gun control/abortion, etc. people just don't want to hear you; they'd rather stick their fingers in their ears and go "nananananananananana, i'm not listening!".
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 19, 2018 03:22 PM |
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Edited by artu at 15:23, 19 Feb 2018.
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Fred, you are not makig an extremely sophisticated point, on the contrary, your point is an oversimplification of the issue. And sometimes it is not even a point but rather crums of various semi-points wrapped up together to defend guns at all costs. You are the one objecting to factual statistical comparisons by half-baked arguments such as "we are different because our nation is more free than everybody else." The resaon people are not convinced by your arguments is not because you dont emphasize them, it is because they are extremely weak arguments. We do understand you, we STILL disagree. Because as I already said, you are rationalizing an anomaly out of emotional attachment.
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 03:47 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 15:48, 19 Feb 2018.
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it only BECOMES emotional when you guys continually piss me off over me having to continually explain the obvious, artu. EVERY SPREE-KILLING TOOK PLACE IN SAFE ZONES.
that's a fact, artu. there's nothing emotional about that fact. i'm not EMOTIONAL over it. i'm EXASPERATED that you guys are STILL attempting to argue with FACT. and, you're NOT reading what i post; because you guys keep saying things that i CLEARLY refuted before, and act like i've never even addressed it. EVER.
if you don't want emotionality(people getting pissed off, in this case), then try not arguing with FACTS. because that's going to rub people the wrong way, believe it or not.
i mean, jj's argument was how AUSTRALIA slowed it's violence down by making tighter gun restrictions. AUSTRALIA isn't bordered by MEXICO, OR has the access to the same stuff that the u.s. does by the POUND, OR is even inhabited by a MIXING POT OF OPPORTUNISTS.
like i've reamed you guys with everything before, i stated facts, and you guys use every weak way you can to attempt to refute FACT.
now, who's making a half-baked argument? WHO'S not listening? you guys are.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 19, 2018 03:52 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 15:59, 19 Feb 2018.
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Let me show you examples of how your text looks when I skim through it:
fred79 said:
if you're not kidding, you're just an anti-gun individual attempting to ridicule me because i'm stating facts that you don't like. AND, i stated my facts quite well. i capitalize words for special emphasis, because they SHOULD be obvious to everyone actually paying attention to the matter.
if you ARE kidding me, well played; because i took the bait. but perhaps not the best timing.
Quote:
AND SHOULD ARE
This is emphasis on the wrong words. Those are all unnecessary, unimportant words that don't help the reader understand your point. This is the same as capitalising random letters, just on a larger scale.
If you instead had capitalised:
Quote:
CAPITALIZE EMPHASIS
I would have gotten the idea of your post quickly and easily. Then I could go on to read the post in more detail. This is beneficial to people trying to understand you, and of course to you, trying to get understood.
Also simple things like capitalising the first letter of your sentence help the reader to keep track of your thoughts more easily. It allows for easier organisation of what is being said in relation to other points made. It's a small thing but when there's lost of text, the small things add up.
So thinking about what you actually want to highlight in your text, trying to organise the text so it's easy for others to follow and providing main arguments at the start that are then expanded upon further in the chapter are three easy ways to make your posts better.
PS. SHOUTING LOUDER DOES NOT MAKE YOU EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. This goes both real life and internet discussion. Shouting loudly will get you noticed and might make people avoid further conversation with you at best. It might get the other person to try and shout even louder at worst. Neither of these is beneficial to the conversation or leads anywhere productive. So if you catch yourself doing this, make an effort to stop because it's a sign you are emotionally in an unstable state and your judgement is clouded. It's worth to take a step back, cool down and reassess the situation.
EDIT:
This is neither the VW nor the OSM. No meme posting or mass murder discussions in this thread please.
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 04:08 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 16:11, 19 Feb 2018.
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i type how i talk. if you notice, if something is more important, or my point is ignored(especially CONTINUALLY ignored), i tend to start typing like this.
if you read a post, but don't get what you're reading, or skip over something that leads to confusion or circular arguments down the line, then the points that were skipped over are going to be repeated and repeated while the person constantly repeating themselves over something that points out a fact, that people continually argue with by opinion, is going to get upset, and there's going to be an issue. which is why you are seeing the osm topic being brought up here. also, because you are addressing how i'm typing there. obviously.
they don't understand that the correlations they think exist, make NO difference in reality. because people who want to kill, WILL. it is up to the individual to stop them. laws are just ideas, they aren't a bullet-proof vest, OR a gun.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 19, 2018 04:14 PM |
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You are lost, fred. The sad part is you actually believe we are resisting facts. The more you talk the more I realize, my Muslim analogy was so spot on. You keep believing what you believe, dude. But for the last time, let me remind you that your argument about the safe zones had been answered twice already. You are the one ignoring replies, not anybody else. Anyway, this is not the place.
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 04:18 PM |
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yeah, I'M the one who's lost. and yet... i have the gun. huh. funny how that works. i'm able to protect myself and my family, while you can be gunned down with nothing in your hands that could actually defend yourself.
hey, maybe the weak statistics you use to refute a completely different area and environment will keep you from getting hurt? probably not, but you can hope, right?
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 19, 2018 04:31 PM |
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Edited by artu at 16:32, 19 Feb 2018.
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Tell me what part of this is too hard to understand, since it had been repeated like 6 times already:
Personal weapons are not an efficient way of protecting yourself from such attacks, never have they been seen to stop such attacks, and there will always be soft spots of opportunity if an attacker decides to mass-kill anyway.
Arming everyone to teeth, not only fails to prevent such attacks but in the long run, it escalates the gun violence, it gives the opposite result becuse it triggers a gun culture where such attacks become much more common. You had 29 mass shootings already in 2018. We had none yet. In such shootings, no civilian was able to Bruce Willis his way out of the shooting with his gun. It doesnt work that way.
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 04:35 PM |
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i'm carrying all this off-topic over to the appropriate thread, despite the obvious reasoning behind this thread. i shouldn't even bother.
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OhforfSake
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Initiate
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posted February 19, 2018 06:46 PM |
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I think it'd be an idea to at least consider what Joonas is saying, and perhaps give it a try.
The worst thing that could happen is that more people will agree with you. 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 19, 2018 06:49 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 18:50, 19 Feb 2018.
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fred79 said:
i type how i talk. if you notice, if something is more important, or my point is ignored(especially CONTINUALLY ignored), i tend to start typing like this.
if you read a post, but don't get what you're reading, or skip over something that leads to confusion or circular arguments down the line, then the points that were skipped over are going to be repeated and repeated while the person constantly repeating themselves over something that points out a fact, that people continually argue with by opinion, is going to get upset, and there's going to be an issue. which is why you are seeing the osm topic being brought up here. also, because you are addressing how i'm typing there. obviously.
Quote:
CONTINUALLY NO WILL OR
Okay, this is already progress. I can get some idea of your post with this. Still not exactly optimal but there's progress here. Preferably I'd have liked to see something like:
Quote:
IGNORED CONTINUALLY CONFUSED REPEATED
So let's talk about your typing style and how to improve it. Typing like you talk is a very bad idea in general if you want to get understood. This is because most people don't talk like you. They don't think like you. Most of the people don't even speak English as their native language like you do. They come from a completely different culture. They learnt the official English. Take one your posts and use google translate to translate it to Turkish, German or Finnish. Then translate it back. Now if you read it you get a fair approximation of what it is like for all of those people with different cultures and languages to read and respond to you. When trying communicating with these confused people from other cultures it's very important to realise that your job is to make them understand your message correctly. It's your responsibility. Not theirs. Not someone elses. Yours.
With this in mind you have to explain it so clearly they can understand you and when there's a misunderstanding, it's up to you to clear it up. More often than not these happen when there's something you think is obvious or self-explanatory and it's totally not to someone from a different culture.
Let's take a simple example:
You score a meeting with a fabulous Finn. "Meet me in front of the cinema at half seven." You get an angry/frustrated call from your Finnish friend around seven telling you to shove it.
What happened here? You unknowingly agreed on different things. Obviously to the Finn you had not showed up at the agreed time and even after waiting for half-an-hour overtime you were still not there. How is this possible? Because in Finland half seven means half to seven, not half past like it does in English speaking countries. Easy mistake to make if you don't think about it. Very easy to avoid if you know to expect it. Simple specify the time properly at 19:30.
So was it a fact that you were meeting at 19:30 in the previous example? It was a fact you said you were meeting at half seven. It was a fact they understood you were meeting at half seven. Yet the perception of what was half seven was different. It is these perceptions that shape our view of the world. And they're always different between different people.
So how do you work with this? You find a common ground to start. If both of you hold scientific studies as factual evidence then you site those studies' conclusions. If both of you hold the Martin Luther's 1534 bible as the real word of God then you site that. Find something where your views align and work off that.
If there's absolutely nothing on the topic where you can find this common perception of it, then you have to go through the hard work of understanding their culture and why they perceive the world the way they do. Once you have grasped this, then you can start to explain to them, in their own terms, what you think and why. Without this you're never going to get your point across the way you wanted it to.
Also now, hopefully, you understand why anything that makes your message harder to understand, be it not capitalising the first letter of your sentence or not presenting an organised structure in your text, is even more detrimental to intercultural communication. So please, I know you've got good points you want to get across, don't let your efforts go to waste by letting them be misunderstood just because you're too lazy to write good responses. The time of "Ivan can read, why can't Johnny?" is over, I know you can do it.
PS. The posts on the forum aren't running anywhere, you don't have to speedtype to answer someone. The post is still going to be there tomorrow, the next week. A good, easy to understand message a week later is going to be a thousand times more valuable than a hundred hard to understand posts that don't get the point across right.
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fred79
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posted February 19, 2018 07:05 PM |
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joonas, literally the only difference between how i have been typing, and what you just typed, is that you use no caps/italics/whatever. and, in case you didn't notice, i usually do that as well in an important subject until something gets me worked up. like people arguing with reality. which you took part of, and which you attempt to ridicule me for, here.
if you were to actually go back and read from the beginning of my op on the last massacre, you'll see that i started out with minimal caps/italics/whatever just to enunciate(that's what it's called, btw. enunciation. of which i'm sure you have over there in europe), and then as i started getting pissed because i wasn't getting through to people who would rather argue with reality than face it, the caps/italics/whatever became more prominent, in order to punctuate my words.
but you won't go back and read. because the true purpose of this thread was to attempt to ridicule me. which you frankly failed doing, since i and anyone who knows me here, knows i'm more than intelligent enough to NOT see through snow like this. typing with caps and italics HAPPEN because just standard typing DOESN'T work to get a message across to people who just want to argue, instead of actually learning anything.
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