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| Thread: Prosecuting Donald Trump |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted November 08, 2020 02:59 AM |
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Prosecuting Donald Trump
https://theintercept.com/2020/10/18/trump-election-crimes-prosecution/
EVEN IF President Donald Trump loses on November 3, it’s hard to imagine that he’ll ever be convicted of any crime, much less serve time in prison.
That’s because, first and foremost, no former U.S. president has ever seen the inside of a cell — and not because all presidents have faithfully followed the law. Presidents accumulate huge favors owed, favors that they cash in, figuratively and literally, when they become former presidents. On the modest end of the spectrum, 20 wealthy friends of Ronald Reagan bought a mansion in Bel-Air, Los Angeles, for him and Nancy to live in when he left office. More significantly, ex-presidents receive political protection from their allies, as when Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for anything whatsoever he’d done in office.
Presidents accumulate huge favors owed, favors that they cash in, when they become former presidents.
And beyond anything concrete that a president does for the factions that back him, those factions also strenuously oppose any consequences for their president’s actions for reasons of basic class solidarity. If an ex-president can face consequences, that would suggest that people one step down the power ladder could too. And the people at the top of U.S. society see consequences like Leona Helmsley saw taxes: They’re for the little people.
That said, stranger things than the prosecution of Trump have happened: for instance, Trump being elected president in the first place.
Trump is more vulnerable to prosecution than other presidents because he’s engaged in so many potential nontraditional presidential crimes. With the invasion of Iraq, George W. Bush committed what the Nuremberg trials referred to as “the supreme international crime” of initiating a war of aggression. But there was never any chance that he’d be punished for this, because the entire U.S. power structure agrees that American presidents have the right to do it. Same for conducting thousands of drone strikes or torturing people around the globe. By contrast, Trump has engaged in many comparatively small, shabby, possible criminal activities outside of his presidential duties.
Right now, Trump is protected from indictment under all federal laws because he’s president. For decades, the Justice Department has held that it cannot prosecute sitting presidents; former special counsel Robert Mueller agreed and explained that he never had the option to charge Trump because it would be unconstitutional. And, whether or not this perspective is correct, Attorney General William Barr is a loyal hatchet man who would never take action against his patron.
It does seem, according to a recent Supreme Court ruling, that Trump could theoretically be indicted for violating state laws while in office. In practice, however, that is extremely unlikely.
But if Trump is defeated and extracted from the Oval Office, much of his presidential shield will disintegrate. He could try to pardon himself on the way out the door for all crimes he’s ever committed. But no one knows whether presidents can do this, since none have ever tried; in any case, it would only apply to violations of the federal code.
So let’s assume that Trump loses, he doesn’t pardon himself, and the state and federal justice systems suddenly become enthused like never before about treating the ultra-powerful like the powerless. Trump would then become vulnerable to prosecution in the below ways we already know about — plus, in all likelihood, many, many others we don’t know about yet... cont.
My instincts tell me this is unlikely to happen, but it is possible. Tax fraud is the most likely thing if he is prosecuted since the IRS is like Thanos with all 5 infinity stones and twice as aggressive.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted November 08, 2020 04:15 AM |
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There is a much higher chance that Biden pardons him than there is of him actually getting prosecuted. See Obama refusing to prosecute Bush and Trump refusing to prosecute Obama for their war crimes. It's a big club.
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evildustructor
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Pizza Man dominos pizza yummy
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posted November 08, 2020 04:23 AM |
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Rimgrabber said:
There is a much higher chance that Biden pardons him than there is of him actually getting prosecuted. See Obama refusing to prosecute Bush and Trump refusing to prosecute Obama for their war crimes. It's a big club.
i agree with this, sent u a hcm btw!!
its a big club and your not in it. kissinger and cheney wont get locked up either for their war crimes  even the clintons are goin free after trump was going all out with his lock her up snow haghaghaha, american war machine will go on as it always has i guess,, not sure how some people on here stil offer their dying support for bad orange man and show how their poor feelings were hurt by him not winning all over this place
would be sick to see some change tho but i feel biden and copmalas not the protagonists for bringing the structural change needed lol
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fred79
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posted November 08, 2020 04:35 AM |
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i see b's frequent bs troll threads are a thing again.
really; prosecuting someone for calling out election fraud, and trying to notify americans and spread actual evidence of fraud... how low can your kind possibly stoop?
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evildustructor
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Pizza Man dominos pizza yummy
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posted November 08, 2020 04:37 AM |
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fred79 said:
i see b's frequent bs troll threads are a thing again.
really; prosecuting someone for calling out election fraud, and trying to notify americans and spread actual evidence of fraud... how low can your kind possibly stoop?
whats your stance on tax evasion then
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Rimgrabber
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Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted November 08, 2020 04:37 AM |
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Presumably, he would be prosecuted for violating the emoluments clause of the constitution or for war crimes. But since every modern president has done one or both of those things, it won't happen.
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fred79
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posted November 08, 2020 04:53 AM |
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bush jr's entire administration never saw a day behind bars for their legit mishandling, lying, colluding, etc., as well as hillary for her emails, and her part in the spying and illegal investigation of Trump and his campaign(which the obama/biden administration were a part of)... the list goes on and on. attempting to prosecute someone for snow people made up, on the other hand...
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CountBezuhoff
Supreme Hero
Nihil sub sole novum
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posted November 08, 2020 12:04 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
Presumably, he would be prosecuted for violating the emoluments clause of the constitution or for war crimes. But since every modern president has done one or both of those things, it won't happen.
War crimes? Trump of all presidents?
The Count
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 08, 2020 01:13 PM |
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Trump and Biden are not part of the same club though. Still, the orange one will probably not be persecuted for anything substantial (assuming he gives up the presidency which hasn't happened yet) because that will turn him into a martyr in the eyes of millions and that's not something to be trifled with even among mortal enemies. Destroying Trump's image and legacy through media instruments however is vastly more likely to happen, especially given that Biden's (or rather Harris') administration will need tons of excuses for everything they fail to achieve.
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Kipshasz
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Elvin's Darkside
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posted November 08, 2020 01:23 PM |
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they'll take a page from Britain's 'penal law' codex, and charge Donnie Stacks with posting of mean tweets without a loicense.
He'll get a few months in the same camp Rosie Odonel served her time.
Also what Zenofex said.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Gnomes2169
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posted November 08, 2020 04:39 PM |
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CountBezuhoff said:
War crimes? Trump of all presidents?
The Count
Betraying a wartime ally without valid cause or suitable justification, which Trump did when he pulled the troops off of Syria's northern border and allowed Turkey to commit genocide on the Kurds, absolutely constitutes a war crime. The move also violated the US constitution, since treaties ordained by Congress are officially made a part of the constitution until an act of congress annuls them, but literally no one but the die-hard constitutionalists who for some reason support Trump rabidly actually care about constitutional violations.
But yeah. That's the main thing I can think of when I try to think of Trump and war crimes. The drone-strike assassination could also be seen as one, though that's more shaky, and a lot of people have argued (and are able to argue) that it was more of a "bad taste" move to remove a bad-faith wartime actor rather than an unjustified act of war.
To be fair, Sulemani was absolutely asking for the US to do something. The constant poking, prodding and provocations were going to go too far for a long time, and were going to be answered violently eventually. Which is why I'm not calling the assassination an out-right war crime, even if by definition assassinations are. And I have no expectations that Trump will be prosecuted for it, since that's a more "garden variety" presidential war crime that like... every? Every single? President in recent US history has done, and none have been prosecuted for.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 08, 2020 05:05 PM |
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I am hoping he refuses to leave the white house, so we get him forced humiliatingly from the premises by security 
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evildustructor
Known Hero
Pizza Man dominos pizza yummy
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posted November 08, 2020 05:26 PM |
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Zenofex said:
Trump and Biden are not part of the same club though. Still, the orange one will probably not be persecuted for anything substantial (assuming he gives up the presidency which hasn't happened yet) because that will turn him into a martyr in the eyes of millions and that's not something to be trifled with even among mortal enemies. Destroying Trump's image and legacy through media instruments however is vastly more likely to happen, especially given that Biden's (or rather Harris') administration will need tons of excuses for everything they fail to achieve.
do you think that will hinder todays democrats tho? they love losing. their whole plan is just not to win, but to lose gracefully lol. look at the strategy the right wing democrats are going by all day, the clintons etc love losing. they just straight up want to exclude the progressive movement from their agenda to make wall street happy haghahha everyone in the dem establishment endorsed biden over bernie strategically to keep their sponsors happy
they'd love to make a republican martyr they have a fetish for losing lol
trump is gonna be the next reagan for the fringe republicans, todays answer on the tea party movement is gonna b interesting to observe
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Blizzardboy
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posted November 09, 2020 02:09 AM |
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They might be able to prosecute him for a petty crime like tax fraud without sabotaging themselves politically. It would also put the GOP in a pickle. Yes, the GOP could accuse the Democrats of being vengeful... but over taxes? What if the evidence is damning? Do they then defend tax fraud? That could backfire.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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The_Gootch
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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 09, 2020 02:25 AM |
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Watch who Trump pardons in the days leading up to the changing of the guard. I would not be surprised if he pardons himself, his family, and AG Barr. But those pardons will only cover their 6 for federal crimes, not crimes at the state level. At the very least, the Southern District of New York (SDNY) is going to light his ass up.
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fred79
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posted November 09, 2020 03:58 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 04:07, 09 Nov 2020.
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you mean like how clinton pardoned a literal terrorist that is now on a board of directors of an organization that funds blm? i'll even save you the effort of arguing and give you her name: susan rosenberg. look her up.
on top of THAT, one of the last acts of the obama/biden administration was to offer clemency to the same terrorist organization that rosenberg was a part of. neat how that works, isn't it?
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Gandalf196
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posted November 09, 2020 04:14 AM |
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One thing I know for sure is that Donald John Trump will not be able to run in 2024. After all, the Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution limits to two the number of times a person is eligible for election to the office of President of the United States.
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Gnomes2169
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posted November 09, 2020 06:12 AM |
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Gandalf196 said:
One thing I know for sure is that Donald John Trump will not be able to run in 2024. After all, the Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution limits to two the number of times a person is eligible for election to the office of President of the United States.
Well, no. He could run in 2024. He lost this year, after all, and the constitution says that the president will not serve more than two terms, not that you can only bid for the presidency twice.
That said, Trump will be older than Biden is now come 2024, and will likely be just as senile. So not sure if he'll be able to run, even if he wanted and is allowed to.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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The_Gootch
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posted November 09, 2020 06:16 AM |
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fred79 said:
you mean like how clinton pardoned a literal terrorist that is now on a board of directors of an organization that funds blm? i'll even save you the effort of arguing and give you her name: susan rosenberg. look her up.
on top of THAT, one of the last acts of the obama/biden administration was to offer clemency to the same terrorist organization that rosenberg was a part of. neat how that works, isn't it?
*looks around*
Oh. You're talking to me? Lol, are you for real? Are you trying to tit-for-tat me like a 4 year old? I mean, come on mods, he's begging me.
Ah, here's the truth, though. In 2013, I became a father to an 8 year old boy. As part of his training and learning to become a decent, thoughtful, accountable, considerate, just, kind, empathic, and merciful young man, I taught him there is no glory, no honor, in repeatedly beating someone down who is smaller and weaker than you. It's over between you and I. Or, it needs to be.
I've spent the last 15 years having these kinds of conversations with my fellow Marine Corps veterans and I don't need to relitigate them with you. I've had them because I care about them and it distresses me they are vomiting steaming piles of 21st century John Bircher conspiracy nonsense through the unearned megaphone of social media. If this was the 1950s, they would be screaming about how fluoridated water is a communist plot.
As for you, you said you were a fellow veteran. I remembered your vibe from 7-8 years ago and I wanted to see if you would eventually recognize how broken you were as a person through your interactions here. Fast forward and I see no personal growth, no evolution from you. Instead, it is clear to me you have become radicalized and somehow it's someone else's fault. I am convinced you are ill and I want to remind you the VA has resources available to us, including but not limited to social workers and mental health therapists. Good luck. I am no longer going to discuss politics with you.
Mods, I do have an objection about this other member. Can I burn a qp to force him to change his name? Gandalf is wise. Gandalf is sacred. This clown is neither.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 09, 2020 06:55 AM |
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The_Gootch said:
fred79 said:
you mean like how clinton pardoned a literal terrorist that is now on a board of directors of an organization that funds blm? i'll even save you the effort of arguing and give you her name: susan rosenberg. look her up.
on top of THAT, one of the last acts of the obama/biden administration was to offer clemency to the same terrorist organization that rosenberg was a part of. neat how that works, isn't it?
*looks around*
Oh. You're talking to me? Lol, are you for real? Are you trying to tit-for-tat me like a 4 year old? I mean, come on mods, he's begging me.
Ah, here's the truth, though. In 2013, I became a father to an 8 year old boy. As part of his training and learning to become a decent, thoughtful, accountable, considerate, just, kind, empathic, and merciful young man, I taught him there is no glory, no honor, in repeatedly beating someone down who is smaller and weaker than you. It's over between you and I. Or, it needs to be.
I've spent the last 15 years having these kinds of conversations with my fellow Marine Corps veterans and I don't need to relitigate them with you. I've had them because I care about them and it distresses me they are vomiting steaming piles of 21st century John Bircher conspiracy nonsense through the unearned megaphone of social media. If this was the 1950s, they would be screaming about how fluoridated water is a communist plot.
As for you, you said you were a fellow veteran. I remembered your vibe from 7-8 years ago and I wanted to see if you would eventually recognize how broken you were as a person through your interactions here. Fast forward and I see no personal growth, no evolution from you. Instead, it is clear to me you have become radicalized and somehow it's someone else's fault. I am convinced you are ill and I want to remind you the VA has resources available to us, including but not limited to social workers and mental health therapists. Good luck. I am no longer going to discuss politics with you.
Mods, I do have an objection about this other member. Can I burn a qp to force him to change his name? Gandalf is wise. Gandalf is sacred. This clown is neither.
so you're completely ignoring 2 plain facts i just pointed out, and opted instead to make an inane attempt to insult me? and you call ME childish and in need of help?
lol. ok.
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