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| Thread: Prosecuting Donald Trump |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 09, 2020 10:05 AM |
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@Zenofex
Genocide is a big word. Even the Kurds of the independence movement here, don’t call it that because civilians arent deliberately killed as a policy. We have a population of 80 million and 14 million are Kurds, there are Kurds who have been prime ministers. You can think of the recent situation more like the conflict between the English and the Irish. There are incidents where civillians die, either because of some overreaching officer, or fog of war or that they are actually part of the guerilla warfare. But cleansing Kurdish ethnicity is not part of any state agenda.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 09, 2020 10:21 AM |
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JFYI, the president can pardon someone only for FEDERAL crimes. However, 8 (of his over 30) lawsuits which are currently on hold due to his immunity, are on state level, rape, sexual harrassment, tax evasion, fraud and so on, among them.
He'll go down, if his immunity vanishes.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 09, 2020 11:45 AM |
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we'll see what happens. nothing is set in stone yet.
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted November 09, 2020 12:24 PM |
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artu said:
@Zenofex
Genocide is a big word. Even the Kurds of the independence movement here, don’t call it that because civilians arent deliberately killed as a policy. We have a population of 80 million and 14 million are Kurds, there are Kurds who have been prime ministers. You can think of the recent situation more like the conflict between the English and the Irish. There are incidents where civillians die, either because of some overreaching officer, or fog of war or that they are actually part of the guerilla warfare. But cleansing Kurdish ethnicity is not part of any state agenda.
Isn't the whole Kurdish independence movement a massive clusterbleep in of itself? I heard there's three kurdish guerilla groups, two of them are supposedly commies, and they all bleeping hate each other.
And also, due to the comfortable strategic position for NATO that Turkey is in, everyone's favourite watermelon salesman can get away with as much bullcrap as he wants.
Your whole conflict over gas, islands, teritorial waters, yogurt, and God knows what else with Greece is a clear proof. you have two NATO members at each other's throats and nothing is being done. According to greek POV, turks are always trying to provoke some crap. and ofc, vice versa.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 09, 2020 12:45 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:53, 09 Nov 2020.
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Well, most Kurds here prefer a federation or autonomy anyway, rather then an independent Kurdistan state. I don’t exactly know about all the fractions in Iran and Syria, there are too many. PKK is communist in theory, but that’s rather a formality from their past of the Cold War days. Their cause is independent Kurdistan, period.
Personally, I don’t care if Kurds want their own state, I’m on the Aegean coast anyway, but this is the Middle East and it’s easy to guess how that will turn out. Without a tradition of institutions, it will just be another pop-up puppet state, sharing the fate of Iraq, Syria or Libya. A constant hornet’s nest where tiny fractions are used as little pawns of world powers and every one keeps murdering each other. And you really dont want that next door, it’s like having a gang member as a roomie. I empathize with Kurds wanting independence in the 1980’s and 1990’s, because they were really ethnically opressed back then, their language was censored etc. But now we even have state funded public TV in Kurdish, and once this Erdogan regime is over, I think the best solution would be giving them autonomy in local matters and keeping the state as a whole.
The conflict with Greece is usually much softer since the 1980’s. Americans backed up a coup and in return, the military didnt veto stuff in NATO back then. It’s usually hot rhetoric from ultra-nationalists from both camps. But for instance, last week when the quake hit the Aegean, both leaders called each other and offered help.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 09, 2020 05:10 PM |
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fred79 said:
i see b's frequent bs troll threads are a thing again.
really; prosecuting someone for calling out election fraud, and trying to notify americans and spread actual evidence of fraud... how low can your kind possibly stoop?
1. About 2/3rd of Americans -including a portion who voted for him - are interested in knowing more about Trump's legal dealings, as they should be. Call it spiteful or vengeful or whatever you please, but what it really is, is pragmatic. Having that man in the White House for 4 years without repercussions sets a bad precedent and might encourage criminals of a Trumpian flavor to do the same in the future. We have amputated ourselves of the alien creature but it will scurry away to safety. The justice department must now follow it to its nest and we must purify the infestation with fire.
2. As you are already aware, and as I have already acknowledged, Trump is perfectly free to make his legal challenges in the different state elections. That is not the subject of the discussion.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 09, 2020 05:31 PM |
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artu said:
@Zenofex
Joe, is that you? 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 09, 2020 06:31 PM |
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@ b: more "orange man bad" bs. you guys are a broken record.
i swear, leftists' brains are wired differently. some break out of it(evidence: me), but the overwhelming majority are drones. i have lost all respect for leftists. they COMMAND absolute repugnance from any sane, thinking individual. even the right, with their love of police, are less repugnant.
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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 10, 2020 12:31 AM |
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fred79 said:
i swear, leftists' brains are wired differently.
Technically, this is correct. Depending on what kind of material and media and entertainment you consume, you will not have the same neurological infrastructure as another person. It physically changes you.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted November 10, 2020 04:57 AM |
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Considering that you have demonstrated like 18 times in the past 48 hours that you have no idea what the snow a leftist even is, I'd say you're not one to talk.
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted November 10, 2020 06:21 AM |
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artu said:
@Zenofex
Genocide is a big word. Even the Kurds of the independence movement here, don’t call it that because civilians arent deliberately killed as a policy. We have a population of 80 million and 14 million are Kurds, there are Kurds who have been prime ministers. You can think of the recent situation more like the conflict between the English and the Irish. There are incidents where civillians die, either because of some overreaching officer, or fog of war or that they are actually part of the guerilla warfare. But cleansing Kurdish ethnicity is not part of any state agenda.
I'm guessing you meant @ me, right?
To be fair, you are right that, by definition, it is not genocide. It lasted far too little time for anything other than a deliberate war crime and act of aggression... but there definitely was an attempt to exterminate the Kurds at the border. The military presence in the area was basically just the US forces and the bare-bones police and militia that hadn't been sent to the southern half of Syria to fight ISIS on behalf of the USA. So when the US pulled out, there wasn't nearly the need for the Turkish military presence that was committed and fielded to conquer and pacify the area.
As well, civilian centers were deliberately targeted for air strikes and military action, killing hundreds and displacing hundreds of thousands... and I am only not using exact numbers because when I'd last checked, no one cared enough to do an actual count after the first three hours. (Update, because I was curious, no one cared enough to tally it, I just checked) It kept going for 3 days, and only stopped when Russia stepped in to stop it. There were also the Turkish citizens who followed in behind the army, drove past them, and followed the Kurdish refugees to hunt down stragglers and execute them, posting videos of the act while they said snow like, "We're exterminating this vermin that ran away, just like we will back home!" And... as far as I'm aware, the people who made these videos where they tortured and murdered families and posted them onto social media never saw any justice in court.
And all of that was a predictable consequence of the USA pulling their troops out. Because Erdogan and his military advisors were pretty clear that they saw the Kurds on the border as squatters holding territory that did not belong to them (due to the Treaty of Lausanne from 1923 establishing no Kurdish state, despite one being promised in what is now southern Turkey in the Treaty of Sèvres 3 years prior) and that a buffer zone needed to be established, and the people living there brushed aside or crushed underfoot. It also labeled the entire group (as in, all of the towns an cities) as terrorist hotbeds. Said statements and support against the ISIS forces attempting to conqueror them are why the Syrian Kurds were so eager to make an alliance with the USA in the first place, in exchange for, explicitly, protection from Turkish expansion and armaments/ training to protect themselves from invasion.
And all of the damage could have been prevented of the US (specifically Trump, because literally everyone in the US senate, house and military high command asked him what the hell he was thinking, and 364 members of the House condemned Trump in one of the largest non-partisan condemnations in US history) hadn't pulled out without any warning. Which is demonstrated quite clearly by the fact that the push to expand ended the instant that Russia extended a protective hand over the Kurds and claimed the land for themselves. Because Russia, like the USA, is scary. And Turkey, for all its posturing, is not a big enough dog to mess with either of them.
Also, Russia owns that part of Syria now, as an indirect consequence of Trump's decision to abandon the Syrian Kurds. And that's just weird and concerning to think about. The fighting in Ukraine specifically to stop Russian imperialism has been going on for so long that Russia just gaining territory like that with hardly any effort on their part is deeply, deeply troubling.
(Also, I'm not sure how the media in Turkey has represented all the buildup to, and eventual and ongoing fallout, from that invasion, but this is a relatively good synopsis of what it looks like from the outside, where an "it's complicated, but Turkey are kinda Richards no matter what because of how they rewrote the treaties specifically to disenfranchise millions in a land and power grab" label is relatively justified.)
... But yeah, unjustified broken treaty with an ally, which threatened the independence and existence of that ally? Totally a major, atypical war crime that can be undeniably laid at Trump's feet, and his feet alone. Even if we quibble about how to define exactly what atrocities Erdugan's forces committed once they had free reign to do so. Much like how modern historians quibble whether what Britain did to the Irish was genocide via our modern definitions of the term, ironically enough.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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