|
| Thread: Conspiracy theories |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
posted December 02, 2022 10:51 PM |
|
|
Reminds me about when Alexspl was telling us fairytales about Switzerland, and wouldn't believe me even though I spent most of my life there. 
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted December 02, 2022 11:39 PM |
|
|
@JJ
I meant my link, the one before yours. But it is not some minor detail anyway, how faith and ethnicity is interlinked in Judaism is something well-known. Maybe, this is the part that gets you off track: If you convert to another religion, register to a church etc, then you cant get citizenship by ethnic Jewish heritage, not being religious is okay and ethnic heritage is enough though.
But that's why I specifically say it is hard to draw the line: You are irreligious, it plays out as ethnicity, you register to another religion, it plays out as faith. It's neither here nor there.
@Galaad
Really? Why were you living in Switzerland?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 08:46 AM |
|
Edited by Geny at 08:46, 03 Dec 2022.
|
@JJ
Honestly, I don't understand why you're so hellbent on arguing with me when I speak from personal experience. I'm telling you, my family moved to Israel when I was a kid. None of us practiced Judaism in any way shape or form, much like most Jews in Soviet/post-Soviet countries. Hell, I didn't even know I was half Jewish until we started talking about moving, since it just had no reason to come up. And yet, here we are, Israeli citizens.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 09:13 AM |
|
|
Geny said:
@JJ
Honestly, I don't understand why you're so hellbent on arguing with me when I speak from personal experience. I'm telling you, my family moved to Israel when I was a kid. None of us practiced Judaism in any way shape or form, much like most Jews in Soviet/post-Soviet countries. Hell, I didn't even know I was half Jewish until we started talking about moving, since it just had no reason to come up. And yet, here we are, Israeli citizens.
But that's what I said. Your FAMILY moved to Israel when you were a kid. Yes. That means, it's just ONE of your parents who must qualify, the other two count as "family" and can be whatever they want. Depending on WHEN that was, and where you came from ... I mean, if your parents came from a communist country, you couldn't have served with a letter of your rabbi anyway, right? There have been special rules for all this. The laws regulating that have been amended a couple of times over the last 50 years.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 09:38 AM |
|
|
artu said:
@JJ
I meant my link, the one before yours. But it is not some minor detail anyway, how faith and ethnicity is interlinked in Judaism is something well-known. Maybe, this is the part that gets you off track: If you convert to another religion, register to a church etc, then you cant get citizenship by ethnic Jewish heritage, not being religious is okay and ethnic heritage is enough though.
But that's why I specifically say it is hard to draw the line: You are irreligious, it plays out as ethnicity, you register to another religion, it plays out as faith. It's neither here nor there.
You can get citizenship in Israel no matter what. You don't have to be a jew to become a citizen. When Israel became a country they made a law under the impression of what had happened and that law has been amended and now there are three laws. Jewish immigration law is basically working like the US constitution. It's a case of where the spirit of the law has to be served, and the spirit of the law has been that Israel should be a safe haven for every Jew (who is themselves no danger for the country).
Anyway, the ethnicity is doubtful at best. Jews seem to have originated as part of the Canaanites within the two kingdoms of Judah and Israel, but later apparently mingled with a different tribe or people, the Hebrews.
Their main characteristic is religious - they were different because they followed a different (kind of) religion with just one god instead of many. And that stayed their main characteristic - due to the fact that they like to keep among themselves, if possible, that is they most often marry someone of the same religion - but not always. In this they are no different from Christian sects, like Jehova's Witnesses or other Lutherian denominations, most of the latter (as opposed to Jehova's Witnesses) don't try actively to convert others either (same as the Jews), except when there is a love interest.
So they are comparable with, say, these guys., main difference being that the Jews have a way longer tradition.
So. Jews are no "race". Have never been. Can't be one ever.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 11:04 AM |
|
|
@Artu
Since it's the conspiracy thread I'll just say that's classified 
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 11:05 AM |
|
|
"Race" is a pretty much compromised concept in modern genetics to begin with so I dont know what you mean by that. Who are a race? Arabs? The Cherokee? Aryans? Chinese? If you go back long enough, we all descended from Africans and no gene pool of homo sapiens is isolated enough that they can no longer interbreed with other homo sapiens. So, to varying degrees we are all mixed. Eurasian people even have a little Neanderthal and Denisovan in them and had they survived, they could have been considered races in the true (biological) sense of the word.
But Jews considered themselves and had been considered by others a race/nation in the traditional sense as much as the next guy. When someone mentions Freud or Marx is Jewish, they are certainly not referring to their religion. I dont know if the laws in Israel had recently just changed and according to what, but that's a technicality anyway, dont get stuck in the example, Jewishness is a concept where ethnicity and religion is interlinked, that is especially so in the traditional religious doctrine itself.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 11:20 AM |
|
|
^ Correct, Artu.
It's a rare occurrence for me to agree 100% with a post by you.  
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 11:47 AM |
|
|
They have considered themselves a "people", not a race or nation, as they were spread all over the world. One movement within them, the Zionists, united behind the idea of a jewish national state in palestine which became a reality.
However, there are also people, who are technically jews, but not practising (which is something that is quite possible with other religions as well; I've been a Catholic until I officially pulled out, for example) nor knowledgable in Jiddish, not living in Israel.
So if you take ALL people in the world that are Jews, they have nothing in common, ecept that they are technically all Jews at this point in time - they are technically all members of a certain religion.
That's it.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 12:12 PM |
|
|
not from this thread, but i'll get this out of the way right now...
NimoStar said:
When fred wasn't hated and was a bit more emotionally stable
yeah, back before the worldwide events of 2020, and you didn't oust yourself as literally working for a rabbi. besides, i was hated back then, anyway. i just didn't care, because people like you hadn't appeared to have been WEAPONIZED entirely, then; just mostly.
JollyJoker said:
fred79 said:
DON'T BOTHER ME.
Actually, you are bothering us.
care to ELABORATE on this "us" you identify as part of? and who EXACTLY is forcing you to read specific posts in a specific thread in a specific corner of the internet? hmm?
again, another NON-ARGUMENT, where you're just WHINING like a little girl. try actually ADDRESSING any content(which you can't, so you won't), instead of just reacting like your feewings were hurt. aren't you supposed to be an adult? hmm?
artu said:
The link demonstrates that not only "white" western countries take in immigrants like you imply, there is no such pattern or ratio. (I personally had a ton of friends who moved to Japan, Russia etc., and we have millions of immigrants in this very country.) The link's purpose required no additional words to grasp but I forgot it was you on the other end. And such lobbyist organizations are an open book BECAUSE their agenda is not what you claim it is (masterplaning doom to eradicate the white man), that wouldnt require too many gray cells to grasp either. Political lobbies are not exclusive to Jews, they are a typical instrument of modern politics.
Quote:
The net migration rate indicates the contribution of migration to the overall level of population change. The net migration rate does not distinguish between economic migrants, refugees, and other types of migrants; nor does it distinguish between lawful migrants and unlawful migrants
^ important to point out.
this is why i said some words in your post would have been helpful in understanding why you posted that link; you clearly don't understand what you posted, which is why the content in that link argued IN FAVOR of what i was saying:
Quote:
United States 314,102,623 5,007,887 15.94
now, correlate THAT number and the other numbers with the emigration rate of NON-WHITE countries, with WHITE countries, and you'll see(not likely, because you're dense) that YOUR link PROVES what i've been saying.
and, even MORE importantly, you'll see that the data in the link you posted, is from 2007-2012. which means these hellish numbers AREN'T EVEN ACCURATE to what they are in the period of 2012-2022.
again, you present a NON-ARGUMENT. and you did so LAZILY.
finally, in response to your paragraph above, i pointed out CLEARLY and CONCISELY just WHO was behind these movements. but you DON'T pay attention, so you're not going to get it. you're going to keep pulling the same erroneous bullsnow that jj is, and essentially arguing WITHOUT A LEG TO STAND ON. because you're NOT ANALYZING content freely available to EVERYONE.
also, lol @ how you and the others are obliviously arguing about how STRICT the jews are about their own borders; when the jews themselves are ADAMANT that other country's (ESPECIALLY WHITE) borders REMAIN OPEN TO MULTINATIONAL MIGRANTS. the jews are ALLOWED TO VET who comes into their country, but if you make any utterance of ATTEMPTING to vet who comes into EVERY OTHER WESTERN NATION, you are then labelled by the jews and their drones (meaning, YOUR KIND), as "racists".
the rest of your drivel is just that; drivel. you talk about paranoia, but you're not even paying ATTENTION to anything. and yet, you STILL think your voice in this matter SHOULD MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. just like jj.
and speaking of "paranoia" and mental illnesses, maybe you should educate yourself on the prevalence of jewish schizophrenia.
maybe, if you really understood the people you unfailingly defend (because you're programmed to, being a leftist in an islamic nation, lol. i wonder how popular you are amongst your elders), you would find yourself in a pretty mental pickle. you might blow a few more fuses ARGUING WITH YOURSELF.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 01:39 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 13:43, 03 Dec 2022.
|
@fred
Nothing in my link proves what you are saying because what you are saying is clinical level paranoia and the reason you dont get that is exactly because you are clinical. The Jews are not eradicating white people, immigration trends have nothing to do with a country being "white," whatever you imagine that means. It is not only what you call "white" countries that take in illegal immigration (I know this not only from the link that you are unable to interpret correctly but from where I live by first hand experience.) And there are many poor countries that you would call "white" that not only dont take in many immigrants but on the contrary, give them out, especially in Eastern Europe. So however you look at it, "whiteness" is not the cause or parameter of anything, it is not even a substantial parameter to begin with. Rich countries take in immigrants, rich countries with an aging population take more, rich countries with poor, post-colonial neighbours take even more.
And make no mistake, I or anybody else is not defending any group, in order to do that, there must have been an accusation that can be taken seriously. We are just telling you that your convictions are delusional. Had you been convinced it was all the lizard people's fault, which is not too far away from your recent non-sense in terms of ridiculousness, our motive in objecting wouldnt be "to defend the lizard people" either. The world isnt "programmed" to defend the Jews, it's just that you blame them for everything. Not realizing even this incredibly simple notion and going on and on about some dystopian brainwashing is just sad.
And I'm not going to elaborate yet once again in vain, why the dots you believe to connect are not facts and why they are the non-arguments, not the replies, because you are neither intellectually nor mentally fit to understand why, not even close in the slightest bit.
@JJ
Once again, you can say the same about Germans or Turks, that they are a people and not an ethnicity, since there is a wide variety of genes among them, too. Blondes, brunettes, dark skin, pale skin, all kinds of eye-colour... All of it has more to do with social construct than biological homogeneousity.
Historically, Jews saw themselves as a nation/race (maternal bloodline) that were spread out all over the world after losing their homeland. Both their culture and religion constructed that narrative and they were considered an ethnicah group by others just as well, you had Jewish neighbourhoods just like you had Italian neighbourhoods. As I pointed out earlier, the interrelation between the ethnicity and the religion is even in the encyclopedic definition.
From a religious point of view, you cant compare Judaism to Catholics, Islam, Orthodoxy etc. Because these were the institutional religions of extremely powerful empires and in pre-modern times, it was not the individuals (subjects) who converted to a religion but rulers. So, these religions had people converting in bulks, they were expansionist, where as there are still only around 15 million Jewish people all over the world even today. That's a very different sociological ratio.
This started out by you saying Judaism is not a race, you cant tell a Jewish person from his looks like you can tell a white person. But "white" is not a race either, it's just a blur generalization and your perspective is a modern one. Historically, you could tell if a person was Jewish because people lived in much smaller towns, everybody hanged around in their own neighborhood, they had diverse clothing, they spoke in very different dialects, they had different names... Around here, women from near villages can still tell someone's from a different village by looking at the kind of shalwar (a kind of local trouser) they wear. So, it wasnt much different from a "discrimination point of view" either.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 02:03 PM |
|
|
Ghost said:
White
Black
Asian
Jew
Indian
Latino
..etc
Is Judaism an ethnicity? A race? A nationality?
Nonsense! The Bible said a race, but I haven't used the word than race.. An official we have three different races.. And then countries where are strong gene does variations..
EDIT
Gene, I meant eye, hair colours, etc but the same race by the skull shows..
Then I said already also I said another thing that you can't become Jew..
Ok I'm mastered philosophy for the future, what? Ok a doctor can change your DNA  So your child is Jew, but you are still colour man, so you can copy an idea from Michael Jackson, and then done.. But my opinion is Nazi doctor 
Remember if evolution is right, not race but species!
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 02:17 PM |
|
|
Quote:
also, lol @ how you and the others are obliviously arguing about how STRICT the jews are about their own borders
Just a small correction here: we weren't arguing about borders, but about citizenship. If you want to talk about Israel's borders, then you should know that Israel accepted tens of thousands refugees from Sudan and Eritrea long before the Syrian refugees hit Europe.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 03:51 PM |
|
|
@ artu
Let's do this the other way round:
"The Jews".
What do all Jews have in common except the fact that they are technically all members of the Jewish religion?
Is there any other feature they all share?
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 04:32 PM |
|
|
But that is not a fact. A lot of people who self-identify as Jewish by ethnicity/nationality/a people/race, whatever you call it, do not self-identify themselves as technically a member of the Jewish religion. Being Jewish and believing in Judaism are not the same thing, I think that's what Geny was also trying to tell you.
What else do you have in common with ALL the people who identify as German other than being German? Language maybe? But you can have German people born in foreign countries who cant speak German but are still German. Genes? Not really. Culture? There isnt a homogenious culture either. Yet, Germanness still exists as an intersubjective phenomenon.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 05:01 PM |
|
|
What makes a Jew a Jew when it's NOT religion? Because if it's NOT religion than it must be something else. Which would mean, you could believe in Judaism and still not be a jew which doesn't make sense.
If it's the feeling to belong to a "special people", it's STILL basded on religion - God's chosen people, remember?
And that's also the start of it - two kingdoms of Canaan, both believing in Jahwe, later the Hebrews mingle. RELIGION-based.
What else would make a Jew a Jew?
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 05:20 PM |
|
|
Historically, it's a branch of henotheist people just like any other. If Abrahamic tradition had not spread out with the Roman Empire, it was probably going to be one of those dead religions by now, or some local folk lore.
The people and the religion are one in the beginning, mingling or not, it is a unified concept. But once the world secularizes, you'll have people who value their cultural/ethnic heritage but are not religious in any way.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 05:26 PM |
|
|
As I've said, nowadays every Jew defines for himself or herself what it means to be Jewish. Some would say - religion, many would say - history. My guess is that the thing which encompasses the biggest number of self-identified Jews is tradition. Even most secular Jews celebrate Passover and many fast on Judgement Day. Once again, every person picks and chooses what traditions to uphold and in which way, but it's probably as close to an answer you could possibly get.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 07:39 PM |
|
|
That's completely bonkers. It's also unscientific. Like everyone DEFINES for themselves wgat this or that means.
It doesn't work that way. Because words have a meaning. If everyone infuses words with their own meaning communication breaks down-
And then it's no wonder when everyone talks about something and everyone else understands the meaning they want to.
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 03, 2022 08:18 PM |
|
|
Welcome to humanity. That's how people work. No one truly understands the inner workings of another's mind. Sociology is not an exact science in the way math is. At least not until someone finally perfects psychohistory .
There are no definitive answers to such questions. Because people are not definitive creatures.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
| |
|
|
