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| Thread: What’s happening in France |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 06, 2023 10:58 AM |
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What’s happening in France
Galaad, Sal
Word out is these riots are on a scale never seen before. What exactly is happening there?
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted July 06, 2023 01:09 PM |
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France gave once rights and equality to those who don't deserve it...now it's the outcome...
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 06, 2023 01:29 PM |
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Usual barbarbarians ,carnival'. Wild people exisiting on real world! Only civilization is christian rest in fact is wild life. If you import wild people you have wild life inside.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 06, 2023 08:54 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:00, 06 Jul 2023.
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A cop killed a kid, arguing for legitimate defense. Many people see it as murder. AFAIK case is not settled yet.
But to be honest it's more like the straw that broke the camel's back. People are pissed for a loooong time, and cops got an awful reputation since the yellow vests protests for mutilating people. On top of that our "elites" only have their arrogance to match their mediocrity.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted July 06, 2023 09:19 PM |
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Yeah, that's Galaad's version. As expected I have a very different perspective. But what for, we are clearly on autopilot and there is only one possible path because of that. Sooner or later.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 06, 2023 10:20 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 22:20, 06 Jul 2023.
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Clearly the riots go beyond the scope of just Nahel's case. Sure if France was doing good people would still roar for what happened, but not to that extent. Then maybe I'm wrong in my analysis, feel free to contradict.
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Salamandre
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posted July 06, 2023 11:05 PM |
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I disagree with the part about police, we already disputed that before. There is no "people are pissed about police", but some people, as some people hate school, some hate dentists, same hate dogs and so on. There is no the people as a whole or even a majority, ALL opinion polls show an overall strong support to police, except a minority on left.
50k people died last year because medical errors. A part of error is inherent in risky fields, human body is fragile. Especially when confronted to flabbergasted violence and hate on a daily basis. However errors come into when you are pushed to your limits, and this is where I disagree : he was NOT a kid, but a mindless 17 yo uneducated criminal, who played a game with his fate and lost.
That the cop "may" have made an error during intense action, maybe, time will tell. But the bottom line is - listen to police when asked to stop and you will be fine in 100% of cases.
Then riots have nothing to do with, we agree. France lost the ability of making itself attractive, people became feeble and pusillanimous thus lost ties with history. As everything is going worse and worse, there is no longer hope left that someone can fix it. Le ver est dans le fruit.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 06, 2023 11:07 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 23:09, 06 Jul 2023.
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Lol, but we don't disagree then. A minority is enough to wreck havoc. All revolutions are due to a minority. We disputed before some specific cases.
Quote:
he was NOT a kid
I meant a child, come on.
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Salamandre
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posted July 06, 2023 11:10 PM |
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Of course we disagree as you place the police as main responsible for what's going on. This is what your first comment says.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 06, 2023 11:13 PM |
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First comment is factual, I even give the police's argument first. People use the second sentence as a mean to riot. Indisputably, without this incident, actual riots wouldn't be.
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Salamandre
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posted July 06, 2023 11:28 PM |
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Look, if the gas valve is left open, any tiny spark will trigger the explosion. What we keep doing is trying to avoid sparks. Derisory.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 06, 2023 11:47 PM |
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Again, not sure where we disagree here. Whatever you mean by "gas valve", who else but our governors are responsible for it?
As a side note, you seem to think I'm anti-cop because of our precedent disputes. I'm not, but don't be too naïve either, the police, as any other field, also has its share of black sheep, also a minority obviously. Still worrying. You would notice I did not bring that up here, as of now we don't have the elements for that ; the cop threatened to shoot without any racial slurs of the sort. Was he right to shoot to protect himself, as you said time will tell.
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Salamandre
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posted July 06, 2023 11:56 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 07, 2023 12:08 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:25, 07 Jul 2023.
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Yeah, rewatched original version of the video without the subtitles and I concede it's not that clear what he says. Only truly audible part is "la tête". But that doesn't matter anyway, I think in such situation he is allowed to threaten to put some pressure.
Edit: Actually, he did threaten to shoot anyway since he was taking aim at him. But like I said, that changes nothing.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2023 10:18 PM |
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For a few years now French police are allowed to make use of their weapon much more permissively. Which made their decision making much more precarious. Pretty much a legal limbo now and much more cases of police violence have been recorded since the law change.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 08, 2023 11:55 AM |
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gatecrasher said:
For a few years now French police are allowed to make use of their weapon much more permissively. Which made their decision making much more precarious. Pretty much a legal limbo now and much more cases of police violence have been recorded since the law change.
Yes. And an issue that goes hand-to-hand with this is the lack of proper formation.
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Salamandre
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posted July 08, 2023 02:20 PM |
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There is no systemic problem with police, anyway not more important than in other similar jobs preserving safety and order, like medics, army and firefighters. What some militants do is take this of that isolated and not yet detailed case, use speculative information from social medias like "he said, he did this", then jump to generalities. In social sciences, a proper diagnostic uses percentages. Then if errors are infinitesimal, in the context, the method is considered as functional.
There is an explosion of violence and criminality due to importation of uneducated and acculturated masses of people from North Africa. Those individuals, for valid or fanciful reasons - doesn't matter, are bottle feed to believe their continent and living standards were systematically blown away by western imperialist. To put it simply, they hate us.
That requires to the order representatives, as well as politics, to adapt to scalable and fluid parameters, then for that there is no training but individual reactions.
This is the gas valve, as long as you maintain it open it will blow here and there.
As population keep voting for politicians who consider this valve a taboo and will never take any action, for me the gangrene is in the people, and not the tools used - politicians or cops.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 08, 2023 02:56 PM |
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Salamandre said:
There is an explosion of violence and criminality due to importation of uneducated and acculturated masses of people from North Africa. Those individuals, for valid or fanciful reasons - doesn't matter, are bottle feed to believe their continent and living standards were systematically blown away by western imperialist. To put it simply, they hate us.
So minority becomes a generality when it suits your views. I would argue many of them -if not most, come just to get a better life. You should watch Vincent Lapierre's street interviews, a lot of the immigrants he interviews said they were told France is a paradise and once they are in, reality is not what they expected. They are simply left in the streets with no basic, primary needs fulfilled, like a home or food. Cannot work legally either as it's extremely difficult for them to get the papers. So for most of them, their life would be better had they stayed in their homecountry yes, unless fleeing war. Then obviously, not as an excuse mind you, criminality explodes once it's your only way for survival. Huge majority of immigrants are well integrated in our society, just like you are. Some hate us it is true, but those aren't the ones you find selling crack in the streets. It's the ones decapitating teachers, terrorists. Isolated facts too.
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Salamandre
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posted July 08, 2023 04:31 PM |
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You make my point, french mindset is gangrened. Thousands of Africans pillaging and bringing havoc shouldn't be generalized because you know others who are good people, but ONE cop making a possible error should be, it is a sign that police isn't properly trained. You insisted on this from the beginning, but never raised the other side of the coin.
And when I raise it you come with the usual gossiping about poverty leading to violence, which is an insult not only for the majority of french people who live a hard life, but also to the millions of migrants who came with nothing and made it.
When will you understand that France or its people do not owe anything to migrants, they have to do their proofs on their own and be held responsible, more than anyone else. It is a chance for them to live in France, thus it is upon them to reach the standards. Or leave if they can't.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 08, 2023 06:46 PM |
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1. You know it's not just "one" cop.
2. It's not me saying that, it's the police itself. They've been asking in vain for better training for decades.
3. Poverty leading to violence is not a gossip but statistics all over the world.
I never said France owes anything to migrants. I say if you welcome migrants you have to do a minimal effort to allow them to integrate, or don't welcome them at all if you cannot do that. It certainly isn't a chance to have no other choice than go live in the "colline du crack".
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they have to do their proofs on their own and be held responsible
Yes, but what you refuse to hear is that it has to be made possible for them to do so. When someone has been waiting for papers for 10 years in order to contribute to society, what else can he do in the meantime? At best work illegally, underpaid and in ****ty conditions. At worst become a criminal. No need to be a genius to understand the latter is easier, especially in France.
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