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| Thread: US Politics 2024-2026 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Blizzard
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Where the hell is my driveway?
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posted November 26, 2024 04:35 AM |
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Edited by Blizzard at 06:26, 26 Nov 2024.
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The United States doesn't have "Holocaust anethema." That is a European condition. We view ourselves as the savior of Jews and the saviors of Europe/Asia/the world (not me specifically, but that was the common mode of thought post-1945).
The US has been a historic ally of Israel because Israel is a presence of Western democracy in the Middle East and it is a staging ground in the event of a conflict (of course, so are places like Kuwait). The US has always since 1945 onward either explicitly - like in the Reagan/Bush years - or implicitly promoted the spread of democracy, because many/most American politicans believe democratic countries are better for trade and better for overall stability in the world, since democratic countries are more unlikely to start wars with each other. The US will also frequently do unscrupulous things if it perceives a threat to that trade and stability, although of course like in Afghanistan and Iraq, that can end up backfiring completely. Korea was partially successful, so was Serbia.
Now, more recently, that old alliance between US and Israel is in danger. Israel has been provoking conflict more than preventing it, and the USA has a better relationship in many Middle Eastern countries and in the Islamic world in general than it did 20 or 40 or 60 years ago. As it turns out, trade with autocratic countries is actually a pretty sweet deal. Sell weapons and import oil which is even cheaper than if it was drilled domestically. Basically, Israel is not as valuable as a counterweight for US interests as it used to be, and it is beginning to feel more like a liability. The US is still a long ways off from ever sanctioning them (if ever), but it is putting more pressure on them than in the past, because Israel is making everybody around them hate them. I mean, the region already kind of did hate the Jews even before Israel existed, but recent events have made it much worse ever since the government decided the best way to deal with October 7th is to go medieval.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 26, 2024 10:02 AM |
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Blizzard said:
I mean, the region already kind of did hate the Jews even before Israel existed
Not really. I mean, one musnt confuse pre-WW2 social norms with “hate.” Historically, anti-semitism is more of a European thing than a Muslim thing. Just think of Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice for example. The Muslim custom was that Muslims were the ruling elite and as long as you were “people of the books” (not a pagan but a member of an Abrahamic community), submissive, payed your taxes and accepted that superiority, you were okay. As an American, you can think of them like black people in the 1950’s, as long as they stayed in their lane, didint make a fuss, they had their limited civil rights and so on…
Because Muslim tradition was to tax and maintain Jews and Christians, they were used to minorities and in many cases (areas), the Christians werent even minorities, they were bigger in numbers but didnt have political power. Non-muslims were not allowed things like riding a horse, carrying a sword, give orders to a Muslim etc… Christian custom was converting everybody though and the small Jewish population was the only significant exception for a very long time. So they were much more of a black sheep to their soceities. (Add to that the narrative of how they caused Jesus to be executed.)
So within the framework of pre-WW2 societies, in which discrimination of races and minorities was to a degree the norm and the majority or the elites openly declared their superiority, there wasnt any specific hatred for the Jews in Muslim cultures. They used to seek refuge from the Inquisition in the Ottoman Empire, remember. It was only after Israel, the conflict became significant because then you have Jews as the ruling class in the holy lands which is unheard of and a big taboo for the Muslim mind.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Blizzard
Known Hero
Where the hell is my driveway?
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posted November 28, 2024 05:40 AM |
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Edited by Blizzard at 05:48, 28 Nov 2024.
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Some more thoughts on the ICC.
It’s more than just the fact that the conclusions of the court are difficult/impossible to enforce. It’s the question on how you could ever have an international court that is free of political interests. Like, I definitely like the idea of having an international court, and I do think an imperfect court is probably still going to be better than no court at all, but it’s going to end up reflecting the interests of its members.
Like, why wasn’t George W Bush found guilty of war crimes? It’s not possible to get an accurate body count, but we do know thousands of non-combatants were killed in Iraq. What about US allies who were complicit? Why not accuse Xi of something? I don’t have a comprehensive answer to that, but I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that it would be strongly disadvantageous to do so.
Israel, not so much. It’s much smaller. Besides, European countries have a stronger interest than ever to placate Muslim minorities living in their borders.
Now, I am of the opinion that hypocrisy is far preferable to inaction. So, if the ICC is guilty of some level of hypocrisy by accusing certain people and not accusing other people, then that is still fine with me. It does after all seem extremely obvious that Netanyahu is guilty of a number of things and that the country in general has sort of lost its sense of direction. It is putting itself in a corner with a war at the sum so far of over 50 billion USD (and growing) which is a huge sum of money for such a small country, and there are literally millions of people who could replace the combatants they have killed so far (assuming some come from the outside), with fresh ones coming of age every single day.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 05, 2024 11:21 PM |
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How is no one talking about Hunter's pardon?
I was coming for the cirque show...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 06, 2024 04:55 AM |
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It is his son, moreover he tragically lost most of his family already. No need to hit the dying father for being a father.
That doesn't mean we have to ignore how powerful platforms as Facebook and Twitter (now X) censured and removed all content about Hunter's felonies - prior to elections, by FBI request. Which is the real scandal, and not a loving father genuine reaction.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 05:47 AM |
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So, better take the higher ground...
Democrats have been a beacon of acceptable speech for the entire mandate and specially the last year, I'll give you that.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted December 06, 2024 06:42 AM |
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Yes, that's at stake : the celebration and sanctification of the free speech as proof of progress, as we had so little of it in the past.
No matter how those opinions may look to you wrong or offensive, they should never be forcefully suppressed but debated and contradicted (obviously within the boundaries of laws, no call for murder etc) with facts. They are the thermometer of a society, the particularity of each individual trying to be part of a greater cohesion, and when you hide or deny them, they will blow up in your face later, as they did with Trump overwhelming landslide.
Those who argue for censuring are the real modern wannabee fascists and they just lost a big battle. Many others yet to come, is Trump phenomenon just a parenthesis or an opening, we will see in 4 years. As for now, I enjoy my popcorn while reading about millions of flattened snowflakes quitting X, as guess what, their nonsense is now fact-checked by the other side, without fear of instant suppression. Fair enough.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2024 08:12 AM |
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Edited by artu at 08:13, 06 Dec 2024.
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You make it sound like they are quitting because of free speech or neutral fact-checking when the accusation (which is probably true) is that X (Twitter) had its algorithm set in favor of Trump propaganda. Elon Musk had openly supported Trump full throttle. Considering how he is now part of Trump’s team, I’d say he’s done his part of the deal.
This is unethical in many ways. In the past, media owners were expected to stay out of active politics and even other commercial activity because it was considered a conflict of interest regarding objective journalism. Social media, which has 10 times the power to influence people with shadow algorithms much more sneaky than a newspaper can ever be, doesnt seem to bother with such high standards.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 06, 2024 09:08 AM |
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 09:24 AM |
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Salamandre said:
No matter how those opinions may look to you
I guess I can't convey sarcasm in a foreign language.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 09:30 PM |
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Freedom of Speech is a right that goes only so far.
You can always say, "It is my personal opion that ... women and Jews are inferior". Freedom of speech: you can give your opinion to anything.
However - making it factual - "women and Jews ARE inferior" - ISN'T free speech. It's a LIE, because it's not a fact, not in any way proven, and therefore not true. And it isn't phrased as an opinion.
Free speech doesn't mean you can say anything you want. It just means, you can be of every opinion and you must be allowed (without legal repucussions) to express this opinion - as long as it's clear it's YOUR OPINION.
In short, it's NOT just that you can't say things like, "let's kill all [n-word]". It's a bit more.
The problem in general is that the internet is a largely law-free environment and people can say whetever they want depending on the rules the hosts are setting. These rules have nothing to do with constitutional rights, but depend on the "house rules" (like those for this site). It's a general problem that the really big sites - like X or TikTok would have to have MODERATORS by the thousands to actually control posts the way it is done here - but they don't, because the Musks and Zuckerbergs of this world like their profits.
This is simply a grey and ratrher lawless area at this point where the mob and fake stuff rules.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 09:37 PM |
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Delusional, but nice legs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2cAh_srcps
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Blizzard
Known Hero
Where the hell is my driveway?
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posted December 06, 2024 10:12 PM |
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Edited by Blizzard at 22:20, 06 Dec 2024.
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The pardon wasn't terribly surprising. 80-some-year-old president in his final weeks of office.
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JollyJoker
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posted December 06, 2024 10:18 PM |
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The pardoning in general is a crappy made law.
I mean, if it's legal there is nothing to debate, is it? Except the law as such. Not whether it was correct of a person to actually lean on it.
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Blizzard
Known Hero
Where the hell is my driveway?
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posted December 06, 2024 10:25 PM |
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Yeah, it's a dumb power to give to a president, but it is crystal clear legal, and the conservative Supreme Court would definitely back it up.
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Blizzard
Known Hero
Where the hell is my driveway?
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posted December 06, 2024 11:34 PM |
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Edited by Blizzard at 23:54, 06 Dec 2024.
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Censorship is authoritarian, and all fascists are authoritarian, but not all authoritarians are fascists.
Just saying. I'm one of 20 remaining people on the internet who cares about the definition of words. People on the left can be authoritarian but that doesn't automatically make them fascist. Trump also is not a fascist because he hates American military adventurism; he sees it as a waste of money, which it often is. Soldier drones are only maybe a few decades away and that could all change. Need an army? Hire a horde of gamers.
Israel is quasi-fascist because of its illegal settling, but not remotely to the extent of historical fascists.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
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posted December 07, 2024 12:09 AM |
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Trump will stand to Israel to the end, won't he? So what is your point?
I mean, we SHOULD NOT be ruled by people like Putin or Trump. We are, though, which isn't actually speaking for us as a species.
We are just dumb, allowing this crap to unfold.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 07, 2024 03:17 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Freedom of Speech is a right that goes only so far.
It should go at least so far as saying "it came from a lab" or "we should have primaries to decide who will be the next candidate" but both positions were smeared by the DNC.
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JollyJoker
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posted December 07, 2024 09:02 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
JollyJoker said:
Freedom of Speech is a right that goes only so far.
It should go at least so far as saying "it came from a lab" or "we should have primaries to decide who will be the next candidate" but both positions were smeared by the DNC.
It should NOT go as far as "it came from a lab". It SHOULD go as far as saying "as long as it's not proven otherwise my opinion is that it came from a lab".
See, it's one thing if you sit in a bar with three friends and you say "it came from a lab" and everyone's nodding - or when you post that on Facebook or X or TikTok or Insta for the whole world to read, probably with a cool meme and/or hashtag and/or "solid links" which prove that without a doubt, because there are too many idiots.
I mean should it go so far as saying "Drinking exactly 6.66 cans of Red Bull each day will improve your health and give you a lot of insights after 6 months of trying. It will also give you wings."?
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 07, 2024 04:41 PM |
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The SK Prez's apology had me laughing my balls off.
HE has dementia not Biden
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