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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 28, 2013 07:23 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:46, 28 Jun 2013.
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Music Discussion
I think music discussions would deserve a thread of their own. A mini sub-discussion on the religion thread gave me the idea to create this thread, so for starters here it is:
Salamandre:
Cioran (romanian-french philosopher) told one day: "if we need a single proof that God exists, this would be Johann Sebastian Bach alone".
I am aware that the greatest ever composer were deeply religious but I still think it was time-based conjecture. Now, of course, classical music can express a large variety of feelings, unlike the other very limited styles (try to express shyness within rock-style for example and you will see what I mean), and this matches perfectly the conflicts a religious person can experience during her life. But such conflicts can be experienced by humanists also, and the truth is that we can't make any qualitative difference between religious people artworks and atheists ones. Which shows that genius isn't worshiping anyone, it flies all above those things and mocks on them.
Artu:
I'd say Jealous Guy by John Lennon expresses shyness quite well. Would I call it Rock, I'm not so sure, but it's definitely not classical.
Salamandre:
I don't deny the power of different styles, far from it (well I don't listen to anything else than classical today, but it is rather a matter of free time-lack than else). Is just that classical music can go very complex through polyphony and mixing various forms on the fly, and polyphony means conflict: it's like having several characters arguing each other. This also makes it less accessible to those not formed and comfortable with. It does not deny the other styles nailing very well with some well done melody, but that's what they are mostly limited at, create a melody then filling it within an usual short form, 5-10 minutes max. Even today, we have a few commercial composers who have to go back to classical style in order to successfully match the complexity of a movie, see Franz Waxman in Hitchcock's Rebecca. Or the later John Williams.
Artu:
I think of film music like the classical music of 20th century anyway. I have many soundrtrack albums including John Williams and a Hitchcock collection (my favorite is North by Northwest). The "classical" classical music of 20th century is not something I'm quite a fan of though, there are exceptions of course, but usually they lose me after the Late-Romantic Era. I really can't see what's all the hype about Stravinsky for example. Also, the polyphony you speak of is valid for Jazz too, I can even say, before classical music, it was jazz that thought me the polyphonic relationship between the instruments.
Salamandre:
I am with you about the XXth classical music. Beethoven had to personally perform his compositions, and hope that someone will like them, buy then play. Today our famous conservatories are applying a positive discrimination about the modern music, we are literally handcuffed to play it, I am handcuffed to give it on a daily rate to my students and speaking bad about could take me out from job. Doesn't change my opinion that is totally messed, no rules, no time-based culture related (Beijing or Budapest, sounds same), no historical progress, no connection with the past.
That's the XXth century religion: promote the mediocrity and pussify the audience, we are actually censured if we give our negative opinion about a bunch of things. There are a lot of straight moderators in real life too.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 07:28 PM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 28, 2013 07:36 PM |
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I like how Corribus mischievously managed to change OSM into the richest forum from all times and all world forums: of topic deleted, make a new thread boys. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 28, 2013 07:49 PM |
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Quote:
I mostly listen to soundtracks from games and anime.
Fits your robotic attitude
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 08:02 PM |
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Also, when I listen to a piece of music, I rarely let it play from the beginning to end. I sometimes listen to the first 15 seconds or so, then jump 20 seconds ahead, listen for 15-20 seconds again, then skip ahead again. Even if it's a relatively short piece of music. I don't do this if I have it playing in the background or if I'm listening to music I haven't heard before, though.
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 28, 2013 08:05 PM |
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Ugh, I know attention span of people are getting shorter generation by generation and this is not the age of 1500 page novels, still don't you think that's a little extreme?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 28, 2013 08:26 PM |
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Some Wagner operas can go up to 5 hours length, 6 with intermissions. But is rather exceptional.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted June 28, 2013 08:36 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 21:19, 28 Jun 2013.
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Sal, is there contemporary music that you enjoy listening to? A performer you appreciate? Why? Also, do you have a guilty pleasure, be it classical or modern music?
- tone-deaf Vlaad
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 08:39 PM |
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Sal: try any Jeff Beck album not priot to Blow by Blow from 1974, say "Who Else?" from 1999 - or better: watch/listen a Dvd with him, say, Live at Ronnie Scott's or Live in Japan (or watch it at youtube's).
Ok, most of it is not Rock, but some kind of Fusion Jazz, but there is a lot to be said for contemporary music.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
Ugh, I know attention span of people are getting shorter generation by generation and this is not the age of 1500 page novels, still don't you think that's a little extreme?
Music isn't like novels. Novels have a plot, and if you jump around, they usually don't make much sense. (If you can skip 200 pages in a novel and still understand everything that's going on, the novel is poorly written.) But with music, you can listen to the good parts without needing to listen to the less interesting parts in between.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 28, 2013 09:01 PM |
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Vlad, contemporary classical music is not for me, so can't advice something about. About one hit who gives me every time a boner, is the 3rd Rachmaninoff concerto (but probably every pianist will say that).
@JJ, thanks for pointing me to Jeff Beck, but I can't listen to such thing, is really not my cup of tea.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 09:10 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 09:19 PM |
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This version
might be superior, even though it's low picture quality.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 28, 2013 09:31 PM |
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Thanks, I can understand many like it. I can't keep my attention on those overused patterns, but that's me and I would hate arguing about one style of music being better than another. There is enough music for everyone.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 09:31 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 09:42 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 28, 2013 10:23 PM |
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Ok, let's compare Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concert with this one:
Steve Vai - For the lLove of God /with Orchestra)
Lets's leave out the duration - to make up for that you may simply listen to a 40 minute portion of that Steve Vai concert.
What can we say? Well, first of all VIRTUOSITY. Compositions both feature a solo artist, then a piano, now an electric guitar.
The main difference - as in every piece of contemporary music - are...
the DRUMS. (And don't get me start on the art of drumming.)
To male this short - I think that contemporary music has more possibilities than the classical ones, but as with everything, what matters is the QUALITY OF THE COMPOSITION.
Virtuosity is one thing; composing something that makes virtuosity worthwhile is quite another.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 28, 2013 11:41 PM |
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I don't know what you call contemporary music (which style?), for me the XXth century music, including all styles is a disastrous downgrade of everything that was done before, cutting nearly all of the possibilities we could dream of, but now being "spiritually" accessible because of this to everyone-which is double edged sometimes. But anyway, I find very positive that so many people listen to music nowadays, no matter the style. Also is a fact that musicians don't mix styles in practice so a classical musician will most often ignore other styles while you will never see a pop one playing, let's say, Mozart (Keith Jarret tried Bach for a while until he realized he did not have the skills then gave up). I think that such discussions can't be general as styles are different universes, not just a few changed notes.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 29, 2013 01:52 AM |
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Quote:
Music isn't like novels. Novels have a plot, and if you jump around, they usually don't make much sense. (If you can skip 200 pages in a novel and still understand everything that's going on, the novel is poorly written.) But with music, you can listen to the good parts without needing to listen to the less interesting parts in between.
I suppose it's hard to understand how this isn't really true if you've never been a musician. As a musician, I would cringe at the thought, for example, of only playing the middle third of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
I submit that maybe the problem is that you're not listening to the right music. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 29, 2013 02:54 AM |
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There is a plot but not the plot you may imagine, ie brothers Karamazov. For example there are 29000 notes in only the 3rd of Rachmaninoff, and good musicians usually memorize 100 concertos like it and can write them down from the first to the last note. Without understanding the nature of the plot, it would be impossible to memorize such things. It is very unlikely that a musician can memorize let's say page 33, then 55 then back to 22, unless he has photographic memory, but such thing is very rare and does not last long time.
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This thread is pages long: 1 
