|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
posted May 11, 2021 06:00 PM |
|
|
Haerim Park, 8 years old 
Do asians have more hours in a day or what
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 06:08 PM |
|
|
And meanwhile I struggle with my students of same age to play twinkle twinkle little star.
They are reptilians from outerspace is the only explanation I can find.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 06:21 PM |
|
|
There was an actual theory that since in Asia, rice was the main source of food, and since rice is much harder to cultivate, unlike barley in Europe or wheat in the Middle East, their culture evolved to focus on discipline and hard work in a much more strict sense. Cant remember the specifics though.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 07:19 PM |
|
|
Here is her again,, at 12 years old, playing all the Chopin Etudes.
For those not familiar, only few pianists in the world managed to play all the Etudes in one concert, and they had already long beard by that time.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 09:00 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 21:23, 11 May 2021.
|
Impressive. However I wonder if there is a need for pianists any longer, since we have recording by all the greats on high fidelity. Plus one day AI will be able to do it indiguishably. ;]
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 09:10 PM |
|
|
Lol Cor, I know this is bait but I'll bite. People do music because it makes them feel good. It's healthy for the mind, and good for the brain too. I think there has even been studies about it, connections in the brain and well-being.
For the Asians though... the brain for sure must look like superhuman but I am a bit unsure about the healthiness of this kind of phenomenon.
____________
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 09:25 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 21:26, 11 May 2021.
|
Yeah I get that. But do we really need professional performers any longer? Actually it's a legit question. Already we are nearing the point where computer rendered imaging can replace actors in movies. I see no reason why music will be different. Food for thought.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 09:44 PM |
|
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 09:49 PM |
|
|
If you look carefully, she's playing a piano.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 10:04 PM |
|
|
|
Joke aside, at base she is rather skilled pianist, better than the average student in conservatories
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 10:19 PM |
|
|
Well, there is this experiment where they blindfolded listeners and significant portion thought “oh, nothing like Bach” when in fact Bach was AI.
Kind of scary, like the earth isnt the center of the universe scary.
Like, “you belong to an animal kingdom, chimps are close relatives” scary.
I think it all comes down to not attaching value to things BECAUSE they are exceptional. But because they are universal.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 10:45 PM |
|
|
Where is the gain when "AIs" do what humans do?
I mean, classical music has been recorded often enough - if you want to listen to a record, why would you listen to one recorded by an "AI", when there are already a ton?
I think, even more so than with still creating artists, it's about going to concerts and listen to people playing stuff live.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 11:11 PM |
|
|
But that’s quantitive. What if you then have technology to present clones, imitating the concert experience.
The question (point) is, do our feelings move by something beyond an algoritm.
I think prodigies like the one Sal shared, especially put a spot on that question. To me, Beethoven is almost self-destructive passion, Chopin is melancholy. An 8 year old can not experience these things. They need to grow old, see how fast time flies by. But they can imitate the artistic expression. So why when it’s a kid, we go “wow” but when AI “it can never replace the human experience.”
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 11:16 PM |
|
|
Okay, I’m going into broken English now, beer night. So later.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 11, 2021 11:39 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 23:41, 11 May 2021.
|
Kinda where I was going with it, Artu. Computers have created original visual art and musical composition already. We can surely teach AI to play music with "feeling". Easier for Bach and Chopin but I dont see why it wouldn't be possible, particular with machine learning methods. Does that make it is any less artistic? I mean we can obviously teach a kid to hit the right notes as much as we can teach a computer, and I question whether a kid her age really plays with emotion or just is thought to simulate it. That's no different functionally than what an AI could do. And probably with much less effort. From there it's only a hair away from replacing adult performers too. If a listener closes their eyes and cant tell the difference, does it matter who or what is playing?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 12, 2021 01:03 AM |
|
|
|
Well, we are jumping thousands of years steps here, is not because computer could line up a couple of notes in a given and limited harmonic pattern, that it is capable of composing, same for AI writing theater, poesy etc. DeepBach for instance needs the human to provide the melody before using its database to harmonize it, or we know the melody is the soul of every music. Not in the near future anyway.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 12, 2021 07:55 AM |
|
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 12, 2021 09:53 AM |
|
|
Well, here’s the experiment I was talking about in detail, I dont know about DeepBach but from what I read, it doesnt sound like Annie is incapable of creating melodies, in fact, it even writes haiku:
David Cope is a musicology professor at the University of California in Santa Cruz. He is also one of the more controversial figures in the world of classical music. Cope has written programs that compose concertos, chorales, symphonies and operas. His first creation was named EMI (Experiments in Musical Intelligence), which specialised in imitating the style of Johann Sebastian Bach. It took seven years to create the program, but once the work was done, EMI composed 5,000 chorales à la Bach in a single day. Cope arranged a performance of a few select chorales in a music festival at Santa Cruz. Enthusiastic members of the audience praised the wonderful performance, and explained excitedly how the music touched their innermost being. They didn't know it was composed by EMI rather than Bach, and when the truth was revealed, some reacted with glum silence, while others shouted in anger. EMI continued to improve, and learned to imitate Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninov and Stravinsky. Cope got EMI a contract, and its first album – Classical Music Composed by Computer – sold surprisingly well. Publicity brought increasing hostility from classical-music buffs. Professor Steve Larson from the University of Oregon sent Cope a challenge for a musical showdown. Larson suggested that professional pianists play three pieces one after the other: one by Bach, one by EMI, and one by Larson himself. The audience would then be asked to vote who composed which piece. Larson was convinced people would easily tell the difference between soulful human compositions, and the lifeless artefact of a machine. Cope accepted the challenge. On the appointed date, hundreds of lecturers, students and music fans assembled in the University of Oregon's concert hall. At the end of the performance, a vote was taken. The result? The audience thought that EMI's piece was genuine Bach, that Bach's piece was composed by Larson, and that Larson's piece was produced by a computer.
Critics continued to argue that EMI's music is technically excellent, but that it lacks something. It is too accurate. It has no depth. It has no soul. Yet when people heard EMI's compositions without being informed of their provenance, they frequently praised them precisely for their soulfulness and emotional resonance. Following EMI's successes, Cope created newer and even more sophisticated programs. His crowning achievement was Annie. Whereas EMI composed music according to predetermined rules, Annie is based on machine learning. Its musical style constantly changes and develops in reaction to new inputs from the outside world. Cope has no idea what Annie is going to compose next. Indeed, Annie does not restrict itself to music composition but also explores other art forms such as haiku poetry. In 2011 Cope published Comes the Fiery Night: 2,000 Haiku by Man and Machine. Of the 2,000 haikus in the book, some are written by Annie, and the rest by organic poets. The book does not disclose which are which. If you think you can tell the difference between human creativity and machine output, you are welcome to test your claim.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 12, 2021 10:15 AM |
|
|
You know, the majority of people can't distinguish a chorale written by Bach from one written by a 1st year musicology student. That's because Bach's chorales are more of an harmonic pattern within a very limited and simple structure, reason for which they are the first thing a beginner in harmony studies learn.
Don't fall for such advertising, they benefit from the technical ignorance of large masses. Is good that research is done in that area, automation is welcome where it can lift a tedious burden from humans, but the mystery remains whole - why some people feel the imperious need of communicating emotions by creating artworks and why (only) some of them reach pinnacles. That's the trigger which makes and will always make the difference between AI and human.
If is was only about stocking and understanding data, then Clara Schumann only had to write in the style of her husband then become famous. The hundreds of unfortunate contemporary to Chopin composers - today totally forgotten, only had to imitate then share the rewards, right?
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 12, 2021 10:25 AM |
|
|
Well, I partly agree with you. Since our intelligence, and with it, our capability to abstract evolved over our urges, desires, hunger, insecurities, anger and all the emotions that come with it, it is not just about “being able to do it” but also about “wanting to do it.” AI has already surpassed humans in chess, but it still doesnt want to win a game, it only wins when programmed to win. So, without the primal biochemistry, can it ever evolve to want something is the question I ask myself a lot.
Btw, here’s EMI in Chopin style, I think the performance is dull, as a player, it sure is no Rubinstein. But I liked the composition: Link
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
