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| Thread: Sorry but Newbie Topic: |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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KissBlade
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 05, 2002 07:28 PM |
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Sorry but Newbie Topic:
Hi, I've been playing Heroes of Might and Magic casual since one. (Never was quite good at it) however, Heroes III was something I really liked to relax with. The problem is, I'm more of a RTS player so I'm pretty unfamiliar with Heroes strategy especially in terms of town building, etc. (My primo game is Starcraft) My usual opening is to get a some really fast units and than run around the map foregoing eco usually till third week. I'm /ok/ with chaining but I usually have trouble defending against multiple opponents. I also take money instead of exp first as a rule unless it's 2K in which case, I debate it a bit sometimes. I'm considering online play but I'm wondering is this a sound strategy? Also, I'm trying to get some Necropolis tips, build orders etc. I know the standard skeleton horde but using Isra over and over again is kinda bland (usually I get fast vamp lords and than just run around map with nothing but vamp lords + skeletons) Also is it a good idea to rush mage guilds with something like Tower? Well, any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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PhoebeDuViels
Known Hero
Que?
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posted June 06, 2002 12:00 PM |
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My suggestion is to build the castle first. Then make your chosen town to have the capitol. Do this not more then two weeks.
Then you can concentrate yourself in building your army. If you have th capitol already...than it will be better if you chose experience over the money.
Also make sure you had the mage guild. it really can help you win the battle by using the magic.
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CENSORED MATERIAL NOT APPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN !
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 06, 2002 04:37 PM |
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Something tells me that kissblade guy would beat Phoebe easy lol 
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 06, 2002 05:07 PM |
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Hehe, Stiven, something tells me that your new signature suits you better than the former one.
With Necropolis, go either to Vampire Lords as fast as you can or to Black Knights. Both of them serve quite well in doing hordes of skeleton. But what you should really do is to search old threads for strategies. There is plenty of them. I don't want to start repeating myself and others. 
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daikon
Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
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posted June 06, 2002 09:42 PM |
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But we can give a help to him. Almost always, is better take exp instead of gold, except when you have to choose between 500xp/1000gp. In that case, take the gold (proportionaly, you get much more gold than xp)
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Sorry for my bad english...
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted June 06, 2002 10:37 PM |
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I think you should give lessons to Phoebe!
It depends on the map and your opponent. If you know the map is heavy with treasure or can see LOTS of treasure chests, take some or all experience. If the map has little treasure you will need to take the gold. Forget that Capitol crap in 2 weeks, you need to accumulate troops as soon as possible.
It sounds like you play the Necro well enough to compete with others online, you may learn that you need to do things faster than you did in single player mode. Most of us did anyway. The Necro basics are: Isra, Vampire Lords and/or Death Knights as you already know. You might add another hero to just collect Skeletons, your main will move better without them and there is no need to lose any of them in combat till you meet your opponent.
As someone said, there are plenty of good Necro strategy threads here if you look for them.
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 07, 2002 03:25 AM |
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Yes KissBlade, your ideas about how to play the game competitively already point into the right direction. If you had asked the question at the ToH section, you wouldn´t have been given such bad advice as the one to take experience from chests. Library of Enlightenment is a place where mostly single player gamers meet.
In online play, with very few exceptions, chests are ALWAYS gold. And don´t ever think of building Capitol first, that´s much too slow, unless you play at impossible difficulty (even there it´s debatable).
Before you get confused here, just log into the zone and play a few games according to your thoughts on it, then you´ll see where you need improvements.
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted June 07, 2002 03:49 AM |
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...hehe, ok so it's kinda humorous but there's no need make fun of anyone here
I think you definately have a good start, and even if you lose, playing online with all ranges of players will give you good experience, as you will nearly always learn from mistakes, sooner or later. There are usually some experts to be found that are willing play a match or two with you, or just some veterans who can teach you a few tricks in the game.
Exp/gold is up to you, but truly unless there is an overwhelming amount of treasure chests, the only way to go is to get the gold nearly all the time in the beginning, and as time passes on, if you think it is safe, if you feel it would be in your favor, you might consider taking a bit of experience, if you need to build up some stronger minor heroes.
I was never much of Necro player, but with all of the towns, you definately need all the gold you can get your hands on. Concentrate on your army buildup from the very beginning, and minimize all losses even if they seem trivial. Make sure to get a marketplace fairly early on as well, or visit trading posts if available to sell off any surplus resources to boost your gold reserves.
With the tower though, magic is an essential part of your arsenal, so build the first level mage guild within the first week, and continue afterwards once you have a strong backbone of creatures to support your expansion, and can put up fair resistance or dodge your opponent and keep him at bay. Depending on whether you use a might or magic main hero, you may alter your building order somewhat, but both spells and a strong array of creatures are important to your success, so always make sure that you create a healthy balance of both.
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This space for rent.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 07, 2002 04:43 PM |
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Lets put it this way: If u start playing multiplayer in for example ToT (TOH) and take experience from chests/capitol day1 week2 you are dead week 3-4 at latest if a closed map. If not you are dead even earlier.
You asked for building orders, myself i am a random player and therefor my building order is based on random maps. If you play TOH maps you should go for lvl 7 creatures first week whatever town you may be.
Nowadays its very rare that i play necro at randoms since they are way to powerful. Skel hording is really easy, you should have 1k skels+ week4. But when it comes to building order i usually start off with Mage Guild so my heroes have basic spells. Day2 i get necro amp and start picking some fights with my necro heroes, then i go off and build as many dwells as i can afford. Getting Vamps week1 is vital tho and try and get enough resources to upgrade em day1 week2. After that you can go skel harving with only vamp lords and having scout to back him up for chains/pick up skels so main get more move points.
As for more necro info read one of the old threads about this.
Also you can follow Lews advice, playing the game is the best way to learn stuff.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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KissBlade
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 07, 2002 09:06 PM |
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Spiff, thanks guys. =) I usually start up with mage guild, graveyard than estate but the necro amp sounds a heckuva lot better =). I tried online play but TheZone looks so barren -_- and everything is in private rooms and everyone kept saying something about registering for ToH in which I groaned and asked if it involved getting my email sent to every random company to receive spam. etc... Anycase, my openings are awkward though sometimes. ToH maps are also kinda awkward cause my main hero would seem to get diesel INCREDIBLY quick because of all the rampant powerful artifacts running around and usually it seems whichever side gets shackles of war wins. (or maybe I'm not playing ToH maps but actually just newbie maps?) Also is online play usually 1v1? I like the whole ffa feel sometimes because it seems so much more dynamic =)
Necropolis too powerful? -_- Actually I almost never choose castle cause they seem so bland, especially the guy with plus combat speed or the one with archery specialty.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 07, 2002 10:55 PM |
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Kissblade, regarding your doubts about ToH, I played 200+ ToH games in 4 seasons, and after the first one never touched a ToH map again. There´s usually been a large number of random players available. And there shouldn´t be problems with spam mails ... if you´re worried about it, just create a secondary e-mail account for ToH and online forums.
Once you get a game against a strong player, make sure that you save the game every day. If you lose (this will probably be the case in your first and second game of that kind), loading these saves in hot-seat mode can be used as a very valuable free lesson.
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madmartigan
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
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posted June 07, 2002 11:41 PM |
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I ain't a random expert but I can give some tips as well... On randoms (large and larger ones) I ALWAYS use at least 2 necros, (Vido or Isra being picked in the beginning, thant-if I am lucky)
In first week, I build citadel+vamps+liches. 1 of the heroes has skellies and liches, the other (Isra or Vido preferredly) has the 10 vamp lords. Vamp Lords rule. With those blood suckers hordes of flesh is as easy as cake This way, towards the end of week2 I can/may collect about 600+ skellies (depending on template).
Also, again, depending on the map: if it is a rich map I try to build dread knights and/or castle in week1. If I decide that I will not have enuf gold, I build necro amplifier early in week1, it does help a lot.
Building capitol early=suicide
Regards
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 08, 2002 09:42 PM |
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You can also learn from ToH how some people there did think that HoMMIV Cyclops suck and Ogre Magi are a better choice, but yes you can propably get better tactics for HoMM 3 there. But I doubt that people here are single players (well, maybe few).
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 09, 2002 12:27 AM |
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Thunder <---- the master of single player lol
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 09, 2002 07:38 PM |
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Sir_Stuffed, it has been a long while since I have had played single player actively (what more than two years already?). I've played much more hotseats than single player games. Just wait for HoMM 4 multiplayer.....
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 10, 2002 02:56 AM |
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Yes Thunder, I remember your saying that Cyclops were the most important creature of the Stronghold. Although they have a growth of 3, which is the same growth that the Thunderbird has.
And why? Because they can deal half damage (which means 6-9 points) against two or three targets in the first combat round, if the opponent doesn´t bother to move his units first.
You were also saying that Harpies were better than Nomads. Because Nomads are "not solid enough".
And you were also saying that 3 Cyclops were better than 4 Nightmares. What can I say? We´re at the Library of Enlightenment, and people here are happy when they see multiple red targeting circles.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 10, 2002 06:52 AM |
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I play some made maps but I love Randoms but depends on dificulty lv knowing thy higher thy lever,lower money will be.
Usually playing reg lv I go for 7th lv first week & still have money to spend because to me there will always be money but once you build a dwelling thy population will increase thats why I try ta build them.
On thy 200% I balance it off gold at least castle to where I am back on my feet again but try ta build lv1-3 lv dwelling if I can depending on how rich my area is lol.
Of course find you wood & ore mines as soon as possible.
SEC I will take Cyclops over Ogre magis anyday & play they are easier to build too LOL.
thier area attack is awesome plus ranged attackers cant counter even if rock is thrown directly at them 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 10, 2002 12:40 PM |
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Harpies are fast scouts and their ability doesn't anymore backfire against shooters. If you plan to build Castle and Cliff Nest you might as well build them. Nomads aren't that outstanding.
Those were my actual words. And yes, if I can build the citadel early enough I will go for Harpies. If not, then I might go to Nomads.
Quote: "Easily hit 3 targets at once"? When I fight them they don´t, because I set formation to "loose". If they are lucky they get one shot where they hit no more than one important target with half damage. Considering the difference in growth and cost, Ogre Magi are probably the better choice.
And those were your words. Makes me think have you even played Heroes 4.
More I have played with Cyclops more I have come to realize that they are the best ranged shooters there is in Heroes 4.
While you still (?) think that they are inferior to Venom Spawns.
And heck, I choose Cyclops over Nightmares any day (except when playing Chaos and maybe Nature). Sure they have this nice Terror ability (and it is good to divide them due to that), but I still value Cyclops area attack more.
....if the opponent doesn´t bother to move his units first.
That's another reason why Cyclops are good. Unless opponent moves their creatures immediately the area attack can maybe change his mind. If he moves, it might mean that his grunts are in the reach of Thunderbirds and Harpies. And if he have several archer stacks he has to move them too if he want to avoid area attack fully.
And that's only in the case the Cyclops won't get morale boost or there isn't tactics hero present in the side of Stronghold.
And the damage cyclops will do is something else than 6-9 per cyclop as they have quite high ranged attack skill but, of course, you were unaware of that too.
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mmontgomery
Hired Hero
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posted June 12, 2002 12:02 AM |
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As for the Capitol/Gold question, it depends a lot on factors such as overall map size and whether the map is rich in treasure. Usually, I have found that it is better to maximize gold whenever possible, including taking gold from chests and building capital ASAP. Why? Because the bottleneck in building your army is usually GOLD, not creature production.
Of course there are tons of exceptions. If the map has lots of weakly defended treasure, by all means use your money to build your army and hire heroes, and defer the capitol until later, since you will more than make back the investment in harvesting the map.
As for taking experience instead of gold, this is sometimes the right choice for your best hero (you should generally only be trying to fully develop 1 or 2 heros). For example, if you start with a hero that has basic wisdom/earth magic, and your level 1 mage guild has SLOW in it, then I would in most cases take experience with this hero until I had achieved expert earth magic. Because an expert slow is going to be far more useful in battle than another 4000 gold worth of creatures.
Similarly, if you start with advanced necromancy, using the first chest for experiece to boost to expert is not a bad idea.
Another advantage to boosting the main attribute of your hero to expert is that you don't have to worry as much about scholars. You generally want to visit a scholar with your main hero, in case you pick up an extra +1 on a primary attribute. But sometimes you get saddled with a worthless skill. But if you already have expert wisdom/earth magic, for example, then you worry less about a worthless skill potentially delaying achieving expert level in the skills you really need.
I hope these ideas help. Most of all, have fun!
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2002 01:17 AM |
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some good tips some... weirdo ones
In online play you will have to do everything much faster than in single play as someone already mentioned. Most towns you should be able to get 7th level creature building in first week, only rampart, dungeon, and sometimes inferno give problems on standard difficulty. Usually dungeon and rampart it's just impossible, too many building prerequisites to 7th level, you don't have enough time in 1 week to get your 7th dwelling. Inferno just needs so much gold and mercury, you can do it sometimes, but I always had trouble doing it repeatedly. Tower you can usually do it, but sometimes you don't want to. Giants not that good, and it be a long time before you get Titan usually.
As for getting Capitol first... hardly ever should you do that. You just can't fight in week 3 against a guy with 3 weeks of growth if only your 2 weeks is present. As for taking experience instead of gold, it's worthless cept in a few situations, to get that very needed level for your main, or to level up a secondary hero quick. Any gold should be used to buy creatures which you then use in battles and that gains your hero experience.
Necro- you already have the right idea, but as martigan mentioned it's usually better to use 2 reavers to gather skeletons, and try and make those reavers Isra and Vidomina. Galthran or Thant as your main if you can. Also, alot of people will tell you to make just one really strong hero and even in multi play that is what must people do. If you look at it carefully though, a single level 14 level hero takes as much experience just about as 2 level 10 heroes. 2 hero can visit map locations twice compared to one hero, and you get added flexability. Especially in ToH maps where the artifacts are so strong they will provide most of your stats anyway.
Randoms are whole new ball game(they take every aspect of H3 play into account) and take awhile to explain, like others already said there are a few good threads with many specific and useful strategies around both Library of Enlightenment forum and also a few in ToH forum if you can stand the constant bickering in every thread.
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