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| Thread: Random M-sized maps - are they good enuff for TOH ?!? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:58 AM |
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Random M-sized maps - are they good enuff for TOH ?!?
im writing this because i cant understand why S maps are forbidden for TOH and random m maps are allowed to play.
i played a lot of em for fun with andi and 70% of the games ended week 1 because we met early and one killed the other. also i think they are designed very very bad compared to random L and XL maps in most games. random m maps have a lot in common with fixed s maps i think.
so my question to the random-experts outhere: do i have a completely wrong impression about random m maps ? are they not just there for a damn quick point huntin of some players ? or do you avoid random m maps too because of some reasons ?.
Motorschaaf
Note: this is not about all randoms if they are playale or not for TOh - its just about M - Sized maps !!
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uncoatedtitan
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 01:04 PM |
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Quote:
im writing this because i cant understand why S maps are forbidden for TOH and random m maps are allowed to play.
i played a lot of em for fun with andi and 70% of the games ended week 1 because we met early and one killed the other. also i think they are designed very very bad compared to random L and XL maps in most games. random m maps have a lot in common with fixed s maps i think.
so my question to the random-experts outhere: do i have a completely wrong impression about random m maps ? are they not just there for a damn quick point huntin of some players ? or do you avoid random m maps too because of some reasons ?.
Motorschaaf
Note: this is not about all randoms if they are playale or not for TOh - its just about M - Sized maps !!
Hia all 
I have to agree on that one Motor! BUT in the last season I played a fair amount of rdm. med's but at some point ( NOT after loosing ) I realized that random medium maps should be banned as well as small maps, for ToH/MaH/WW !
They are good maps for practicing scout wars on, but not really a game with all of the components that should or should I say are in this KEWL game.
Greetings UT
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 19, 2002 01:07 PM |
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Well motor..
Most ppl here know what you think about randoms. Im sure you would like to ban em all for toh, not just M maps 
I think M maps are ok for toh. They are the same size as most TOH fixed race-maps, and they can give ya a good game.
Just for the record, I have played random S maps for fun with 4 players that have lasted well into week 3, with ppl also having the grail and stuff.
Of course, I won, even though I was fighting someone with rampart, greens and the grail. Thanks to a little box with 10K exp and a nice lightning bolt :
Lets ban M fixed maps instead. 
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 01:09 PM |
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that post is total crap bjorn 
you cant compare good fixed m-maps with random m, play random m for fun but for toh reports its not acceptable, i agree with UT and schaaf
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 19, 2002 01:17 PM |
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The thing is, critisicm like this shouldnīt come from people that are *against* randoms. It should come from ppl that play random alot and like them.
Itīs not objective critisicm when it comes from a fixed map player, itīs an attempt to reduce the acceptance and influence of randoms in toh.
A political action, although very small, that shifts the power balance towards fixed maps, if ever so slightly, and I think itīs wrong.
If Tim554 would have said it, then it would be different. But coming from I-hateRandomsShaaf itīs quite obvious that itīs an attempt to discredit randoms. Maybe not a conscious attempt, but an attempt never the less.
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uncoatedtitan
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 01:33 PM |
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Hia all
Dont get ME wrong Bjorn, I like random maps, but 9/10 a med. rnd. is not particulary good ballanced..that was my 1 point..I know your a good and experienced rand. player and you must agree on most maps ( L ) you meet week 1 or early week two ( if you know what to look for ) so eventually a smaller map with experienced players involved, it WILL cut down the time. And like I said Before that, for me that is , takes some of the 'action' outta the game.
Greetings UT
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted July 19, 2002 01:45 PM |
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Random Medium
I think that these maps should definately not be allowed for toh play, as people have mentioned.
The reason for this is the template pool for random medium is not terribly diverse, in my experience there is about 1 map that will not result in an early meeting, killing. If guidelines could be set for these maps they could become acceptable, however as of right now I see it as just what you said, A point grabbers fastest wayto glory.
The only 2 random Mediums I have played online in maybe a year were..
Vs JInxer.. I got gretchin, dessa, a lightning bolt shrine, and we met day 4.. nuff said?
and the last one I played (Forget Handle) - was a medium random which lasted well into week 4, it took approximately 3 1/2 hours to complete maybe a bit less. I think this template however was very rare.
ANd again I have heard rumors of players being attacked on reds day 1 on a medium, and of course losing.
I think a medium map is just too small to be classified as a strategic battle and therefore should be unacceptable for tournament play..
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The Dead Walk!!!
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uncoatedtitan
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 01:55 PM |
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Hia all
ANd again I have heard rumors of players being attacked on reds day 1 on a medium, and of course losing.
Amen to that Destro
I have tried both things...and when I found my opponant on day1-2 I ALLWAYS offers a rematch..when I get (H)attacket on day 1-2 ,and my opponant threadends me to REPORT immidiatly ( and 'offers' a rematch ) LOOL I have NEVER reportet ( Hopes Deth8 is on a LOOONG vacation )
But to summit rdn. med.'s is a bygone imo.
Greetings UT
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted July 19, 2002 02:06 PM |
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i dont understand... all you people in here states you play for fun... why dont you let people that like medium random play it if they thinks is fun?
ahh so the reason is that people play Random Mediums is point hungry!!! uhu my good lord...
just 1 question! why the f... do you care?
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted July 19, 2002 02:14 PM |
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Well Titan..
As for me in regards to your question..
I play this game for fun, and enjoy all aspects of it really..
But I do love to my little win/loss/points clicker go up and down, and see how I am rating vs the rest.. Its not to say that I want to see most points, or be the best.. but I do like to see a relatively accurate ladder.
And if I was after points and not fun.. I'd never agree to play a 2o2 XL/under
And for those that do play for points.. a rnadom medium may be fun to someone.. and as UT said with guidelines, great. I just think it is not "fair" in a competitive ladder that the shortest game one can expect from a premade map is 2 hours?? hmm I don't really know. BUt in this time you could potentially win 5-10 random medium games.. its unlikely but It might happen.
And in a Random XL/under 2o2.. imagine.. the season opens, you have just sat down to a 16 hour 2o2.. report feeling great.. and then see someone with 38 wins 4 loses.. all random medium. I wouldn't like to see that.
Cause part of the fun for me is comparing myself to other players.
Hope that makes sense
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted July 19, 2002 02:29 PM |
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hi destro!
First of all i know how you feel about games/tourney/fun
but really, isnt the flamingo times over?
i mean did it bother you all that much that he played Desert War 100 times and ended in between top 5 rank?
hehe i think it did...
Desert War = Random Small?
my point is ... you want a streamlined tourney but was that the base idea for vesuvius long ago when started TOH?
wasnt it all about fun? Honor above all else?
The ladder system reflects many variets of battles... many variets of "fake Reports" ... many variets of what "you" and "me" like a kind of map?
Just 1 more thing... would it really bother you if 1 player is higher ranked than you cause he played medium maps 20 times and you played Large maps 20 times?
I have hard to believe the issue that Medium map is bad for TOH!!!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted July 19, 2002 02:31 PM |
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I have to agree with motors here, i dont think random M is TOH material since ridicioulus early meetings. I think a L map without under is really small aswell, one me and Midnight tried to get a random L going since i didnt have much time...i think we met first week 5 or 6 times in a row and then my time was up anyway lol.
Usually random L are OK tho, but M? nah atleast i dont like random M not even for fun since i dont concider em fun to start with usually.
Early meeting is be suc!
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 19, 2002 02:38 PM |
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"And for those that do play for points.. a rnadom medium may be fun to someone.. and as UT said with guidelines, great. I just think it is not "fair" in a competitive ladder that the shortest game one can expect from a premade map is 2 hours?? hmm I don't really know. BUt in this time you could potentially win 5-10 random medium games.. its unlikely but It might happen."
Well with this reasoning we should ban fixed M too, because they only take 3 hours compared to 8 hours for a random XL.
Serisouly.. to let people play the maps they want to play is the best way to keep TOH popular, active and fun.
The reasons that some ppl want random M banned are these:
1. They care about their points.
2. They donīt want someone else to play random Medium and get alot of points fast, becauce they might get as many or more points as the ones complaining about Random M have.
3. They consider a game on Random M to be less "fair" than on a fixed M Map.
of these reasons, the basic reason is competition. Motorshaaf is #1 in points in toh. He doesnt like randoms.
Destro.. this is harder for me to disregard. Actually I cannot. Destro is a good random player and he might have a point. But, I still donīt agree with banning ramdom M from point play. I think it would be unfair to do so.
The irony is, that the motive behind calling ppl that play random M pointhungry, is that you are point hungry yourself and donīt want them to have the same points as you. You want to have a superior pointage.
Iīm against persuing subjective and personal goals at the expense of someone elses enjoyment. I am also for objective reasoning and thinking. And I am for freedom and against unneccesary rules that reduce the freedom.
My opinion is to allow Random M for toh play. If it was so bad, how come Motor who only playes fixed is #1 player in toh? Surely if there is a problem with getting points fast, it can be found in the record of the #1 player of toh, and not in the random medium map?
Show me one player that has amassed a large amount of points from random M and I will listen. But until that time, I suggest we look for real problems instead of make-believe ones introduced to the TOH community by players who themselves have achieved the same thing they wish to prevent, just from a different method.
We may lose our lives but at least we will have our RAAAAAAAAAAAANDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 04:01 PM |
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Quote:
Well with this reasoning we should ban fixed M too, because they only take 3 hours compared to 8 hours for a random XL.
hmm and why are s - maps banned then ?
Quote:
of these reasons, the basic reason is competition. Motorshaaf is #1 in points in toh. He doesnt like randoms.
i dont know motorSHAFF , but if he doesnt like randoms i think i could get along with him
Quote:
My opinion is to allow Random M for toh play. If it was so bad, how come Motor who only playes fixed is #1 player in toh? Surely if there is a problem with getting points fast, it can be found in the record of the #1 player of toh, and not in the random medium map?
i appologize to you bjorn that i had much timne latley for playing toh games. wants ment to offend you.
Quote:
Show me one player that has amassed a large amount of points from random M and I will listen.
hmm and u dont listen to random map addicts like stiven and destro ? why is this. ? i think they know a ton more about randoms than me and if they dont want random mediums for TOh i think u should think about why they say so
Motorschaaf
P.S: that i dont play random L and XL means not they i wanna ban them. but random m is a different matter.
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freakmebaby
Known Hero
Rude by nature
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posted July 19, 2002 05:48 PM |
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ALL about PONITS
motor all i can see here is u say in diff words ..
why r they allowd 2 get ponits on litlle games when i play big maps and takes me longer ,,and they get same ponits..
well there is no aother reson i can think of way u would post this if it wasnt about ponits ..
I for 1 like M size maps b/c i dont allways have time 2 play long games and ppl dont like saves AND i ENJOY!!! fast games more.. i like fighing with opp with scouts and with main all battles with opp ..
and not like ur long games that the hole time u playing with a comp (monsters) and only after 4-6 hours min u have 1 big battle with opp and uslly not allways but must times the battle isnt even u can tell whos gonna win from start of battle so some times they dont even wanna battle !! so were is the fun in that this hole time u play online and at the end u never even fight with opp ...
i have nothing against it - and i know there r many players that like playing long games ..(i say also let them ENJOY)
now what i do agree since i know u care about ur ponits so much..
i think its also fair .
that players that play litlle maps sould get less ponits
but not 2 take it out of TOH (b/c thats like says lets take out this and this player! b.c there r players that ONLY play M size maps and by u takeing out M size maps from toh u takeing out some players !)
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my fingers r hurting.. i need 2 write M size letters
but i was sacred that soon motor will say that that u have 2 write XL size letter in here !
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Freak.
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 05:56 PM |
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MAPS
The only maps that should be banned are the ridiculously overplayed maps like the HG series, N v S, BFH, and Desert War..
Yea random Mediums suck, as far as i am concerned. I do not think they should be banned.
TOH is about freedom of choice of what type of map YOU want to play. And since nonrandommediumschaaf does not play randoms, WTF do you care? Oh, sorry, must have something to do with pt mongers.
Odd, a topic like this is made by a non-random map player that currently sits atop the TOH rankings.
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"Knowledge has discarded all biblical teachings"
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freakmebaby
Known Hero
Rude by nature
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posted July 19, 2002 06:06 PM |
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there r many funny ppl in here (not in a bad way)
but look this is what "ironmlh" said
"TOH is about freedom of choice of what type of map YOU want to play"
and be4 that he said .......
" The only maps that should be banned are the ridiculously overplayed maps like the HG series, N v S, BFH, and Desert War.. "
freedom???
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Freak.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 19, 2002 06:14 PM |
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you see..
Everything isnīt black or white. There is a grey area in between where most opinions wind up.. and thatīs where Ironmlh was. He is still mostly right, unlike Motor
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freakmebaby
Known Hero
Rude by nature
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posted July 19, 2002 06:17 PM |
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thats why i said "(not in a bad way)"
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Freak.
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
but look this is what "ironmlh" said
"TOH is about freedom of choice of what type of map YOU want to play"
and be4 that he said .......
" The only maps that should be banned are the ridiculously overplayed maps like the HG series, N v S, BFH, and Desert War.. "
freedom???
lol, my point there was that if we are discussing maps that should be banned, it should be those maps i mentioned. Who played Desert War 100 times last season?..I know a few others that played HG 100 times i believe, show me a player that played anywhere close to that number of random mediums.. This random medium map banning theory is flawed at best.
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"Knowledge has discarded all biblical teachings"
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