|
| Thread: Engineer |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
posted September 03, 2001 03:49 AM |
|
|
Thormann,
Why do you think we are talking about changing the game? Heroes already has quests, dungeons, and story elements in it. I'd almost think you had never played it before. We are talking about how the game already is.
|
|
thorman
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2001 06:30 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Thormann,
Why do you think we are talking about changing the game? Heroes already has quests, dungeons, and story elements in it. I'd almost think you had never played it before. We are talking about how the game already is.
I never played the game and i only have maps included with the game.
Just kidding.Maybe i got misunderstood.
David was talking about the lack of everything,i never said there wasnt quests,dungeons or whatever.I just said i dont play this game for those features.I play Heroes mainly for strategy at first,thats why i like multiplayer maps online,but they take some times to end and i dont have too much times right now.
Why would you try to "change" the game.I mean you can try to bring new features,enhancing the quality of the game but changing Heroes to a D&D game isnt what i wish.
Ok,maps have what you call "quests".U have to kill a monster or turn in creatures,ressources,...
On 95% of the maps,those quests have one step,do this and come back.And some times you already have what is needed.Nothing to be crazy about,and i like it the way it is.Some other,you'll need to do multiple things/quests/.... to achieve a single quest,thats ok too.But if i was looking to complete challenging quests in a game,i would look somewhere else.
"Dungeons"? What do you call dungeons? An underground place packed with some mobs and events? Again,most maps dont have such things,there sure is underground but its just plain regular.Some maps will have what you call "dungeons" if you have good imaginations.I must have a lack of imagination.But i have other games offering real dungeons exploration.
I didnt talk about storyline,but about interaction.Some might consider HoMM's as RPG,adventure or strategy.I think its a bit of everything,but i dont want to have to talk with 25 guys just to open a gate.David was talking about the lack of interaction,thats why i talked about it.
I have only around 250 maps,maybe i'm missing a couple of good ones.Most of them are from AW and i dont know any other sites with lots of good quality maps.I have played a lot of good maps with a challenging storyline.I try to look for some more but HoMM3 is getting old to me,searching the net and downdloading 25 maps to get a good one isnt my fun.
____________
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2001 09:53 PM |
|
|
|
Ah well as I said in a previous post, i can respect the fact that some people don't care about the RPG/adventure elements of heroes and they just consider it a wargame. But even if you feel that way, you have to understand that the reason heroes is so popular is because it has those elements. In fact I suspect even you would enjoy the game alot less if it was impossible to create a storyline or if gates were completely useless because you could just have an engineer create a tunnel right to the main board objective (remember this is what we are discussing).
|
|
David
Tavern Dweller
|
posted September 05, 2001 06:04 AM |
|
|
Appreciating features
As we finally got to the point...
I just said that engineers or engineering skill alowing you to modify the map will add another feature to the "strategy" involved in the game (if you think this will remove a feature on the "adventure" part of the game, that's other point).
Has anybody heard about a flexible chess game? You have bit of the board with different shapes, plus the game pieces of course. You can choose to put a bit of board instead of moving a piece. Can you imagine how all the old concepts of opening, middle game & finish get suddenly more complex?
Only if you play on a random HOMM map you can try out the max level of strategy involved. You can play pre-made maps and memorize the locations of important things. If you have the ability to modify a pre-made map... then you get as much of the strategy level in a random map. As environment can vary constantly you indeed have to make a flexible strategy that can be adjusted as the changes take effect.
I still think you can choose to walk through a forest, cross a river through a ford or climb up a mountain. Of course, sometimes this will take longer that going around them. But maybe there could be a hidden cache containing an artifact in the forest, or some gold in the sand of the river or a hidden lair inside a mountain...
|
|
thorman
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 05, 2001 05:59 PM |
|
|
With the game we have,engineers cant go through mountains.Its the only way to maintain a storyline.A map without a storyline is pretty boring single player.When you first get the game,every maps are cool cuz you learn new features,new strategy,new spells,new creatures,....
But when you've played for many hours,you need something new.A storyline.If you could get engineers creating tunnels,bridges or whatever,it would kill the storylines.
I dont say engineers is a complete bad idea,but with the game we have,it would destroy most of the good maps.
On the other hand,if we could add another type of "barrier" to establish a storyline,engineers could be introduced in the game.Map creators could still make a storyline if they really want but you could also add strategy to some other maps made for pure "war-style".
Or simply an option during the creation of the map "allow engineering" or something like that would fix the problem IMO.
____________
|
|
Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted September 05, 2001 06:46 PM |
|
|
zzzap... zzzap
might be my idea but...
Going through mountains is a very very bad idea (come to think of it)
however i cant stress the amount of bonuses that wouldnt really affect the game all that much ie. Roads (sure u can say it will destroy the pathfinding skill) who cares? it costs money 500 gold? 1 ore? and 1 day to build so u cant really just plaster the map with roads can u?
towers are good with the 2 level shroud u cant really leave men everywhere to see the map and they could become flaggable and defendable a added bonus
well whatever i highly doubt they will add this so...
____________
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 05, 2001 06:55 PM |
|
|
I suppose one way to allow engineers without destroying all story based and goal based maps would be to have certain types of terrain that could be destroyed and certain that could not.
Even then however it seems all that would accomplish it to make a bigger headache for the poor guy who creates the maps, as he has to make sure he has just the right amount of indestructable terrain blocking off his important points. And I also question if it would really add much to the game to make up for this.
|
|
David
Tavern Dweller
|
posted September 07, 2001 03:44 AM |
|
|
Passability
As i said long before...
Mountains should be passable, but taking a very long time and the apropiate equipment to climb it up. Same for forest and rivers. And also taking the risk of losing some or all your troops. This would add new machines: climbing tools & lumberjacking axes.
Unpassability should only be done by magical means like force fields. Even in this case you could be able to dispel it... if you are powerful enough to do so. This would make really easy for the designer to make "rooms" that can only be entered by the "door" which could be a quest guard and with "walls" made of magical force fields.
That's it
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 07, 2001 05:52 PM |
|
|
|
Well I think most map designers would like to avoid having to make an entire world of force fields every time they wanted a map with a storyline. Kind of kills the flavor.
|
|
draco
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted October 22, 2001 10:37 PM |
|
|
ok ok ok
hehe ive been gone long time now
turnes out HOMM4 wont be out for a long time
(well im not sure but WC3 still aint out and it was to be out by 2 years ago)
Engineers could work i dont understand all this negative energy being sent towards it
how in the world could a TOWER ruin the game? or a road?
it adds to the aspect of building castles with engineering skill needed to build higher level castles.
COMON PEOPLE HEAR ME OUT!
____________
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 22, 2001 10:44 PM |
|
|
Well I'm at least hoping it won't be that much of a long time. The worse we are probably looking at is 5 months which may seem like a while but it's not exactly enough to make major design changes either. And of course if we are lucky it may only be 3 months.
Nobody said building roads and towers would screw up the game, mostly just building towns and passing mountains would. Of course the others would still have the potential to unbalance things and would have to be designed very carefully. Personaly I don't think it's worth it, and it seems a bit out of flavor for the usualy way heroes works. But it wouldn't totaly screw the game up in the way that the other things would.
|
|
draco
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 22, 2001 11:48 PM |
|
|
hey 3do finaly has a web page created for homm4
well wonder when that happened
I like the idea
it gives you something to do
however i understand you do have to much to do half the time just buying men and such after 5 months
well whatevr
____________
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted November 02, 2001 10:56 PM |
|
|
To destroy a mountain would take much more tha a swarm of engineers... such a task should be (if...) acomplished by means of magic and not engineering....you would need something like a Mahomed or something...
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 29, 2003 07:43 PM |
|
|
Engineering skill was used in H4.. to a extent, Nobility skill was basicaly what I were looking for.
however with Heroes 5, i would like to see (if they keep fog of war, which they shouldnt) tower buildings. flaggable. garrrasins (with cost of course) magic ones if you want for more monies
you should be able to build roads at half movement, so you just set where you want to walk and if you have 20 movement points then you can build 10 pts worth of roads. helpful if you are in a swamp and dont want to lose most movement every turn.
i dont like the idea of getting resources from a hero like in H4 though, maybe you could build mines where no other hero could. like the demolished gold mines in H4.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
|
| |
|
|
