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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2014 05:25 PM |
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Maurice said:
I mostly play campaigns where Heroes carry over to the next map.
Thank you for your awser. We probably have extremely different perceptions of the game, since I almost never play campaigns.
I tried a few in Heroes III recently (because foruns discussion have been all around them) but I usually find them too directive (same with some of the most elaborated maps).
I feel campaigns have a completly different aproach. The things you must accomplish in a certain cenario are not "to win as soon as possible" but to visit every single power up with as many heroes as you will cary on, fight the battles with the heroes that can still use the experience, build the ultimate mage guild in every town and visit it with all heroes and try to be as effective with spells as you can get.
For single maps I'm finding magic schools far less important then I tought they were when I use to edit the map and give me all spells. Fact is, I usually am already sure I've winned when I finally have the chance to build level 4 mage guilds to search for a crucial spell (resurrection, town portal, prayer, berserk...). So, logistics, armour, offense, tactics and archery can be much more helpfull and with these skills you don't stress up with getting expert, they are usefull at any level.
Of course, YOU NEED EARTH MAGIC. Any XL or XXL map without expert Town Portal sucks. It becomes more about chainning heroes then everything else.
On the other hand, I was almost sure you were one of the ToH people and, from what I saw, they sometimes didn't even built the first city hall when they finnish a game.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 08, 2014 01:54 PM |
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I don't recall having participated in anything related to ToH, so no experience there  . Actually, since I almost always play campaigns when playing the game, my build order isn't exactly competitive. I'm pretty sure that in any game against a human opponent, I'd get my behind handed to me on a silver platter.
But games against human opponents never really appealed to me. I am a perfectionist and a completionist in heart, which is at severe odds with efficiency and speed. In campaigns, I usually rush for Capitol, building creature dwellings only after. That means that first week, I am usually still running around with whatever creatures I began with and could recruit from existing structures in town and external dwellings.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2014 04:26 PM |
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Maurice said:
But games against human opponents never really appealed to me.
I didn't like it too. I only started to play online because I read posts from Sal, Angelito and some others saying the best way to become really good at the game is by playing against others.
It was a good experience but I feel I failed my main objective. I wanted to become good enouch to beat the great Impossible maps and now I think those learning processes go in very different directions.
To win a XL map with custom battles you need a strategic aproach closer to campaigns then to rich random template maps. It doesn't matter as much if you are very fast in first days of the game, it matters if you got the right magic school and spell.
In human X human competitions you get really good at chainning, spliting armies, attack banks early and win battles without using too many spell points. This surely is helpfull in custom maps too but when you have to beat seven times 9999 dragons is not enouch.
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Sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 01:36 AM |
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Maurice said:
I don't recall having participated in anything related to ToH, so no experience there . Actually, since I almost always play campaigns when playing the game, my build order isn't exactly competitive. I'm pretty sure that in any game against a human opponent, I'd get my behind handed to me on a silver platter.
But games against human opponents never really appealed to me. I am a perfectionist and a completionist in heart, which is at severe odds with efficiency and speed. In campaigns, I usually rush for Capitol, building creature dwellings only after. That means that first week, I am usually still running around with whatever creatures I began with and could recruit from existing structures in town and external dwellings.
More or less the same here. In a game like HoMM playing against a human can be palatable, perhaps, but online gaming in general makes you more dependent on external factors like your connection, being alert for phone calls, real life friends wanting something of you or asking you to go out, having a meal... all of them situations which can interrupt your game.
Good AI is also something that makes me feel impressed, and a great AI can be very surprising. By that I mean that it can take surprisingly good decisions and stupid ones at times, but it makes it the more human.
bloodsucker has had a few experiences vs humans already. The times I read him about them he ended up losing sometimes. Which I'd expect is going to happen to me if I try to play against a human opponent. I am not quite there yet.
Was I good and almost unbeatable. darn... as a rule, I'd love to play against the most annoying players on the net who spend their time trolling the internet for winning.
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 03:40 AM |
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Sarcyan said:
The times I read him about them he ended up losing sometimes
I have lost most of the times but that was expected, as a matter of fact I even got a little desapointed when I won my very first online game.
At that time I haven't saw as many videos of human X human games and, as I said before, my main motivation was to learn.
Truth is (and this is probably the only justification for us to continue this conversation on a sticky thread) it is completly different to play Jebus or other rich template against a human oponent and play a hard custom map against computer.
I even believe there are people who are very specialized in one tipe of game or the other.
Look at this videos of some extremely good players.
Maretti (against a human player)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STu0-aBYOoc&hd=1
Richard_Chen (against AI player)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjsRL4qDQ6Y&hd=1
Bogdan Sverediuk (against AI player)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6AC88LQt7Q&hd=1
It requires a completly different aproach.
Like both of you I prefer to play against computer but I can't deny that play against another human player is more challenging. You don't "know the tricks", you have to improvise.
P.S. From what if been seeing many online players deliberatly choose NOT to learn wisdom even if they try to learn one or more magic schools. Online gamming is even more about sequences of slow/haste and blind/cure then player versus AI.
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Sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2014 10:21 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Maurice said:
I mostly play campaigns where Heroes carry over to the next map.
Thank you for your awser. We probably have extremely different perceptions of the game, since I almost never play campaigns.
I tried a few in Heroes III recently (because foruns discussion have been all around them) but I usually find them too directive (same with some of the most elaborated maps).
I feel campaigns have a completly different aproach. The things you must accomplish in a certain cenario are not "to win as soon as possible" but to visit every single power up with as many heroes as you will cary on, fight the battles with the heroes that can still use the experience, build the ultimate mage guild in every town and visit it with all heroes and try to be as effective with spells as you can get..
What I fancy about campaigns is that they start slowly teaching you how to play the game and provide you with an incentive to try all the factions.
Also for a newbie they are great because you start calmly and build up from there, get to try every faction and unit and you can play at your pace knowing when a scenario is potentially easy or when it's made to be hard.
It certainly helps with the learning curve and it lets you play factions that maybe initially didn't look interesting or attractive enough but turn out to be fun --or vice versa.
On the other hand, the scenarios in HoMM3, when I am done with the HoMM3 campaigns, HoMM IV, HoMM V and the Succession Wars mod will be the next step.
If someone knows of great user made campaigns, like one made entirely for Heroes IV that I found on the net, then that'd be cool.
Thanks for sharing the vids. I shall check them later. I've watched some videos from Richard Chen, and I was amazed, fun tactics.
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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OpT1mUs
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2014 08:24 PM |
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Edited by OpT1mUs at 20:25, 16 Apr 2014.
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Quick question here, since I can't start new threads yet,
How is initiative resolved in HoMM3? Is it only creature speed?
Or do positions in the army have something to do with it. Article about it on HoMM3 wiki is poorly written.
Thanks
P.S.
Even if they are not related to the initiative, what's the best way to utilize army slots?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 17, 2014 10:16 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 10:18, 17 Apr 2014.
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OpT1mUs said:
Quick question here, since I can't start new threads yet,
How is initiative resolved in HoMM3? Is it only creature speed?
Or do positions in the army have something to do with it. Article about it on HoMM3 wiki is poorly written.
Thanks
P.S.
Even if they are not related to the initiative, what's the best way to utilize army slots?
Initiative is based on creature speed, but a few rules apply:
- The creature with the highest speed acts first;
- If multiple creatures are tied for highest Speed at the very start of combat, one or more of which belongs to the attacker, then the attacker gets to act first;
- In any other situation where stacks are tied for Speed, the player that didn't act with the previous stack to act gets priority to act now (this happens even from the end of one round to the start of the next one);
- If multiple stacks for a single player are tied for highest speed, the one near the top of the screen gets to act first, working the way down the line towards the bottom of the screen. Note that this exclusively applies to the order in which the stacks started their combat; shuffling stack positions with Tactics or during combat does not alter the moment when a stack gets to act according to this rule;
- Slow and Haste can affect Speed and hence, Initiative (note that if this is coupled with the previous rule, it simply shifts a stack up or down the Initiative list, but if it ends up tied for Speed with another stack, the original deployment order still applies to those stacks);
- Which stack gets to act next is determined everytime a stack has acted;
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OpT1mUs
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 17, 2014 03:29 PM |
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Thanks
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OpT1mUs
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 18, 2014 12:10 AM |
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Another question:
About arrow towers, how is their damage calculated exactly?
Dmg range is supposed to be 40-60 for the main tower, and 20-30 for the side towers (if I remember correctly) with the attack value of 10 on all.
But towers do max damage most of the time and sometimes quite a bit higher. What's the deal with that?
Do they calculate it like your unit defense is 0 ?
Also I'm aware of the armorer and air shield bugs, but I am playing with the fixed exe, so they don't occur.
Thanks
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted April 26, 2014 11:58 AM |
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OpT1mUs said:
Another question:
About arrow towers, how is their damage calculated exactly?
The damage of the town shooters
There is many nonsense u can read about them. That because the programm doesn’t show the damage the “will be made” correctly. I know there is a formula around from Binabik which I think is correct. This is how it worked for me in practice over the years:
- All shooters of all towns do the same damage
- If Fort, Citadelle and Castle is built the Base Damage is 15 for the Keep, and approx. the half of it for the other shooters.
- Every Building (dwellings, marketplace etc.) increase the damage of the Keep by 3, which means approx. 6 more damage per round (3 +1,5 +1,5).
- Dwelling and mageguild upgrades do not increase the damage.
- Although there is a range given (rightclick on Keep) it will almost always do the max. Damage (sometimes +1 or 2 points)
- It doenst matter what is the target, the damage will be the same no matter what.
- Skills, Arts etc. (especially Archery or Artillery) don’t have influence to the damage.
Formel: (Keep + Buildings * 3) *2
Example:
Uve build both Castle walls plus all creature buildings, market place, Mage Guild and Blacksmith (=10 additional Buildings):
Formel: Keep + Buildings * 3 = 15+10*3= 45 (=Damage fort he Keep)
(Keep + Buildings * 3)*2 = 45 * 2 = 90 (= approx. Total Damage)
The Maximum of additional Buildings is 18, so the Maximum damage per round is approx. 140.
The max. damage per town per round u can expect (without gral, approx.):
120 = Castle, Conflux
125 = Necro, Inferno, Fortress
130 = Stronghold, Tower, Dungeon.
Again….these damages will always be… no matter which Creature is attacked or which Skills the Attacker/Defender will have (Artillery just gives the Control) …or spells!!
There are only 2 Exceptions (due to programming faults, called bugs):
1. Defence Specialists take additional damage (approx. double).
2. Creatures with Air Shield do have same effect.
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DivineClio
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2014 01:45 AM |
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There is same way to take a griffin conservatory as rampart week2-3?
The main problem is the griffins don t get taunt by folder but go straight to my elves.There is some trick for block at least bottom left griffin for 1-2 turn and then put elves on top with force field?
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2014 01:08 PM |
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No force field man, too much mana and comes too late, its good for single player comp games.
Week 2-3 you should already have expert earth magic which is definitely enough to beat full conservatory with just upgraded elves and Centaurs, sometimes i also take silver pegasi if i manage to get them till then so i can have first move and win without a single lose. Just get some fodder expert slow and thats it, with nice hero you will stomp griffins hard.
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DivineClio
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2014 02:16 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Week 2-3 you should already have expert earth magic
This is the problem.With ranger hero the game propose me only water magic and never earth and sometime slow is rare do find
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted May 14, 2014 10:21 PM |
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Try to find a better hero type in tavern  Barbarians or beastmasters have one less magic school to worry about in getting secondary skills.
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DivineClio
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 19, 2014 09:03 PM |
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To a ranger hero never will be proposed fire schol.
Now, for example, i got lv 8 ivor with expert log,archey,offense (4/8/1/5).Week 3 with 34 grand elven,39 centuar capitan,12 dendroid guardian and i have to take a 150 cons or i lose the game.Spell:bless,dispell,curse,arrow,stone skin.Some tip for do it?
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted May 23, 2014 08:33 AM |
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Edited by Kicferk at 08:54, 23 May 2014.
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Well, maybe you should have a bigger army week 3. Did you go for capitol first?
But I would do it this way: Bring all army and put 4 fodders of centaur captains. In first slot of your hero put elves, in third put all remaining centaurs, in sixth put dendroid guards.
Three fodders go to the griffins on the right and do not attack. They will buy you some time. Bless grand elves and shoot the hell of the upper left stack of griffins. Block the access to the elves from the lower left stack of griffins by the other centaurs. Bind them with dendroid guards.
Next round move your elves in the corner and place large group of centaurs over them(or kill remaining griffins, I am not sure if they can one shoot 30 of them). Put your single centaur fodder in the down of the battlefield. Dendroid guards hit griffins again, though you can change their position to the left and up. (you can curse the dendroid griffins, but I don't know your mana exactly)
Then bless elves each round and shoot, shoot, shoot. Distract the griffins with fodder(you can sacrifise it, if you put it to the right next round, one griffin stack will kill it ad lose turn). Block them with dendroid guards and centaurs. Do not let them block your elves or it can be game over.
Hope it was helpful.
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DivineClio
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 23, 2014 08:00 PM |
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I didn t start with capitol.But when you play M size no underground against 7 AI allied...is fk hard keeping save your unit .
It helped a lot using your tips, but still i m not able to take it.I finish with 20 griffin fighting elves without protection.
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted May 24, 2014 08:50 AM |
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Edited by Kicferk at 08:53, 24 May 2014.
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If there is only 1 stack of griffins left, then maybe you could use your dendroids or centaurs as a distraction in the middle of the fight do that the elves have more time to shoot? Or you can try several times hoping for morale for elves
And one more thing. I think elves are 1 faster than griffins, with Ivor it can be 2 faster. If there is only 1 stack left, you can run away until you can shoot, and then it will be won.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2014 01:45 PM |
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AI is freaking dumb. If you want to get better play vs human opponents.
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