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| Thread: LAELTH'S GUIDE TO ONLINE PLAY FOR TOH BEGINNERS |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 04:04 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited By: Laelth on 2 Dec 2002
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LAELTH'S GUIDE TO ONLINE PLAY FOR TOH BEGINNERS
What follows are some suggestions for people who are new to Heroes IVonline play, and specifically those new to ToH. In general, it's a bunch of stuff I wish someone had told me before I went online to play. I wrote this with the hope that ToH would pick it up and post it on their site. ToH is welcome to do so, so long as they don't change the document's title. I want the credit for having written it. 
This document is still in its draft stage. Please feel free to offer suggestions for additional things that should be added or things I need to change.
-Laelth
LAELTH'S GUIDE TO ONLINE PLAY FOR TOH BEGINNERS
The following is a list of suggestions and guidelines for new Tournament of Honor members and players:
Play a friend online first.
The GAMESPY interface is somewhat complicated, and you want to practice with it first before you play someone you don't know. You don't want to look or feel like an idiot, so get some experience with the interface in a comfortable setting (playing against a friend) before you play against another online opponent.
Don't be in a hurry to play.
Pre-game negotiations in Heroes are a complicated ritual and an important part of the game. Take this phase of the game seriously, and you'll dramatically improve your chances of actually winning. There are a number of crucial things you need to do before you enter into a game with someone, so don't rush the process. If your potential opponent is honorable, he or she will wait patiently. Note that it's polite to chat with a person privately before entering a GAMESPY room to play. It's in private chat that game negotiations should take place.
Don't be afraid to say no or to drop out.
It's quite easy to feel pressured to play a game that you don't want, and trust me, there are a lot of available games that you don't want. In fact, when you're new to online play, it's not impolite to flat-out refuse a game with a high-ranking player. If a high-ranking player comes to you asking for a game, you must question his or her motives. You want to respond politely, but you don't have to be a victim. If you don't want to lose, then just politely say "no." Add LOLs or smileys to your refusal to keep the tone friendly. Remember that you can always say "no" to offers, and you can even drop out of a game honorably while it's still being set up. Once the game has begun, however, you will be accused of cheating if you drop, unless the game host changed something in the settings to which you didn't mutually agree. Once you can see your starting town or hero it's considered unethical to drop. It will be assumed that you dropped because you didn't like your staring town, hero, or some other aspect of your game. Furthermore, most players interpret drops as admissions of defeat, so make sure you're comforatable with all aspects of the game before you click "ready" and begin the actual game. If you do drop out from a game, some explanation of exactly why you dropped out of the game should be offered, after which the host may offer to re-start, but remember that players who drop out of a game will generally be assumed to have admitted defeat. Remember that a pattern of drops will make people suspicious of your behavior, and since the honor council does not enforce player-made pre-game agreements, these will not (in most cases) be considered if your opponent contests the game. In other words, if you drop out of a game because your opponent did not honorably follow the pre-game rules you mutually established, then you will be assigned the loss anyway (in most cases), and the fact that your opponent broke the agreed-upon rules will not (generally) affect the Honor Council's judgment of your case.
Examine your opponent's record.
The first thing you need to do in pre-game negotiations is to examine your opponent's record. Some people prefer to check out the records of the people online before they even start chatting. It's difficult to back out of a game once you're chatting privately, and you want to reserve the right to refuse to play, so it's best to examine people's records before you start talking to them. Here's the URL on the Tournament of Honor site where you can check out the online records of various opponents: http://toheroes.com/info.asp. Click on the player's ToH handle (on the left) to examine his or her record.
If a given player is not registered on the Tournament of Honor site or if, when you click on the player's handle, you get the "player not found." message, then you shouldn't play that person. Either that person has been banned from ToH for cheating, or they're simply not registered. Either way you'll not be able to post a win or a loss unless your opponent is registered. If someone claims to be registered but you can't find his or her record on the ToH site, then it's likely something fishy is going on, and you should avoid that game.
In general, the best advice is to play people who are similarly ranked. If you feel courageous, you might want to try out someone who's one rank higher than you, but keep in mind that people get high rankings not because they play a lot and not because they love the game. People advance in the rankings by winning, and if someone is higher ranked than you are, they're probably going to beat you. In addition to your opponent's rank, here are some other things to watch out for:
Watch out for people whose honor rating is low. In the upper right hand corner of the player's record page an honorability rating is posted. This is a good, but not foolproof, gauge of your opponent's honor that is calculated by comparing how this player's online opponents rated his or her honor in the games they played. You want to play people who are either Honorable or have High Honor. Those who don't are suspect.
Watch out for people who have only one game on record against nearly all of their opponents. Why is it, one must wonder, that nobody wants to play this person twice? Doesn't this person have any online friends? If not, there may be a reason, and you're likely to be just another victim if you play this person.
Watch out for people who lose less than 20% of their games. You may want to go online and play just for fun, but if you enter into a game with someone who loses less than 20% of their games, you need to be aware that that person is not there just to have fun. That person wants to win, badly, much moreso than you. Remember that luck plays a significant role in Heroes. A good player ought to lose at least 20% of the time, simply because of bad luck (unless, of course, they play only against weak opponents, and this is considered dishonorable in the Heroes community). Otherwise, if someone loses less than 20% of their games, they're either a Heroes god, or they cheat. Either way, you shouldn't enter into a game with a person who's got this kind of record unless you don't mind losing and just want to see how badly you can get spanked. You probably will.
Watch out for the cherries. Players earn the "cherry award" for habitually playing against low-raking opponents. In general, these people just want to win, and they want you (the newbie) to help them climb in the rankings by losing to them.
Play a map you're familiar with.
If someone offers you a game on a map you've never played, you should refuse. Knowing the map is a tremendous advantage in a Heroes game, and if you're new to online play, you deserve at least a level playing field. Make sure you know the maps you play on well. Although mapmakers usually try to create very balanced maps that won't give one player an advantage over the other, no map is perfectly balanced, and a more experienced player will know which position is the more favorable. Tournament of Honor lists maps that its Map Council has approved for balanced gameplay on its site. Here's the URL for the Heroes IV maps page: http://toheroes.com/h4maps/maps.html.
Note that most ToH games are played on medium sized maps. Large and extra-large maps make for very long games. Also note that while the Maps Council does its best to insure that ToH maps are balanced, no map is perfectly balanced, and your opponent is likely to be more familiar with the ToH maps than you are. Be very careful which map you agree to play on in pre-game negotiations. Selection of map can make a tremendous difference in the outcome of the game. Finally, be aware that some players will have the Heroes map editor open in the background while they're playing you, and they will occasionally be examining the map when you're playing your turn and they're idle. It's debatable as to whether or not this practice is honorable, but it can't be proven, one way or the other. You simply need to be aware that some players will take every advantage they can to win, and you don't want to be a victim, so be prepared. Lastly, note that most ToH players prefer 2 player maps. Data transfer issues lag down the game when there are computer players. In addition, because only one person can report a win for each game played, most ToH players will not play games with 3 or more players. ToH is, almost exclusively for Heroes IV, a one-on-one competition tournament.
Avoid very popular maps.
The ToH maps page lists two ratings for each available map, Player Rating and Popularity. Player Rating is subjective. Each ToH registered member gets to rate each map, and the map's Player Rating is simply an average of the scores that various players have given it. For someone new, however, this score is irrelevant. What you should be concerned with is the Popularity rating. Popularity is a gauge of how often a given map has been played in ToH games. If a ToH player has played a map many times, and you haven't, you will start off at a serious disadvantage. You can see, when you examine your potential opponent's record, how often that person has played each map, and you should avoid playing on what looks to be one of your opponent's favorite maps. In addition, note that many ToH players prefer fast games and fast maps, maps on which they can kill you, the new player, quickly. Therefore, it's in your best interest to avoid the fast maps (which, generally, have high popularity scores). As a new online player, you stand a better chance on a slower-developing map, and even if you lose, you'll get to enjoy building your army longer before the stronger player comes along and kills you.
Don't play 2 min. turns.
Most online games are set to either 2 or 4 minute turns. Personally, I prefer a leisurely 6 min. turn game, but I have yet to find any of these offered online. More experienced players can accomplish more in 2 minutes than you probably can in 4, so you want to eliminate their advantage by playing a long-turned game. In general, 4 min. turns is about the longest game you can get from ToH players through GAMESPY.
Don't get bullied into a game you don't want.
To some people this advice will sound ridiculous, but it happens. Better players will often attempt to maneuver you onto maps that favor them and into game conditions that favor their style of play. If you feel this is happening to you, avoid the game. You'll probably lose.
Read this anecdote to see how game-bullying happens:
Quote:
One day I logged on to GAMESPY just to see who was there and chat a bit. I had other work I needed to do, and I wasn't really interested in a game at that time. All of a sudden a high-ranking player sends me a private chat asking if I want a game, and I was tempted to play, simply because beating this person would put a big feather in my cap. I responded by saying, "Well, what kind of game do you have in mind?" Negotiations began. He insisted that I host, and I thought that was wierd, but I went along with him. I said, "Random alignments?" He said, "No, I prefer to choose." "What alignment are you going to play?" I asked. He said, "I'll try _____." Knowing that he was playing in a clan in the Clans of Axeoth tournament that was guaranteed that kind of town, I knew he was going to be very practiced in that style of play. I had been playing all random alignments lately, so I wasn't particularly well-prepared for any particular alignment, but, again, I went along. He then suggested the map, a famous newbie-killer. I could tell from his record that he had played that map a lot more often than I had. I laughed--LOLOLOL. "So," I said, "are you gonna let me play death?" (Death, because its army is so fast and because its towns produce vampires, is generally believed to be the strongest alignment in Heroes IV.) He said, "No necro." I replied, "No GM necro, or no necro at all?" "At all," he says. So, I'm thinking, no necromancy skill, but I can still get vampires. That, I feel, should be enough to put me on a level playing field with this guy. "OK," I say, "no necro." We agreed on 4 min turns, and I launched the game. Because I was hosting, he got to choose starting position and, of course, he chose the better place to start, and it was one of the more unbalanced maps where starting position makes a big difference. Anyway, because I'm hosting, it's his right to choose starting location, and I had already agreed to the map, so I had no choice but to shut up and take it. He chose the alignment he said he'd choose, the one he'd been practicing non-stop for a month, and I chose death. He fires me some in-game chat and says, "No necro." I said, "OK. I won't take the Necromancy skill at all. Promise." He says, "But we agreed to no necro." I reply, "You can play death and not take the necromancy skill, you know." He says, "We agreed to no necro." Now it dawns on me exactly what he means. I respond by saying, "Oh, so we misunderstood one another. I thought you meant no necromancy skill" (cause that's what he said, or that's what I thought he said). I say, "So, you mean you don't want me to play death!" He says, "Are you gonna play or not?" Now I know I'm in trouble. I don't want to be branded as one of those players who will only play the game if they can play the death alignment. What can I do? I stall. "Hmm ..." I'm thinking, "I guess I'm just gonna take the loss." I say, "I suppose I could play nature?" I choose nature and start the game. Needless to say, I got killed, easily, but it was my own fault. I agreed to a game I didn't want, on a map I didn't like, against a stronger opponent, where he got to choose starting position and the alignment he wanted. I got nothing I wanted in those negotiations. I was well-maneuvered into a losing position and I lost. It wasn't his fault. It was my fault. I should have said, "Thanks, but no thanks." I deserved that loss, not because I played badly, but because I negotiated poorly.
Remember that you always have the right to refuse a game, and you lose none of your honor when you do, especially when you refuse to play a higher-ranked player who seems to be maneuvering you into an unfavorable position. Furthermore, the higher-ranked player should allow the lower-ranked player to choose the map to play, and higher-ranked players (generally) know this. Instead, offer to play the higher-ranked opponent on your favorite map. Then, see if he or she balks. In general, though, it's a good idea to be leery of anyone who seems to be pressuring you to play a specific map.
Remember to password protect the game or ASK for password protection if you're not hosting.
Password protection is a feature that is honorably used to stop play mid-game so that it can be resumed later in the event one player can not finish an online game. It is designed to prevent opponents from examining one another's positions mid-game. You should also be aware, however, that password protection is a feature that dishonorable players use so that they can cheat and not get caught. It's easier because you can't open up the savegames and see exactly how they cheated without their password. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to insure that all your games are password protected. In the event you believe your opponent cheated, and you decide to contest the game, Honor Council will demand that your opponent give them his or her password, and your opponent will have to comply or face (potentially) being banned from ToH. Most players offer to play only when they have enough time to finish a game. If they know they have other obligations that will prevent them from completing a game, they should tell you so before starting to play you. If someone tells you this, unless they're a friend, you may want to pass on that game offer and move on to the next one. There are plenty of other games to be had. Always remember that you never have to accept a game, especially not if you're leery of the rules that are being established. In the event that an opponent can not finish a game (and this happens--people get called away, sometimes, for various reasons) password protection helps to ensure the fairness of the game by preventing players from examining one anothers' positions before the game resumes.
Save often.
Once the game has been launched, you need to remember to save it, and save it often. This is one reason why it's so important for new players to play longer games, 4 min. turns or longer. You need time to save the game, and you can only do so during your turn. Give each save a different filename so that you can produce an ongoing record of the game. You want to be able to go back and review each step of the game, just in case you suspect that your opponent cheated. And it's really easy to cheat in Heroes IV, so be on your guard. ToH wants honorable players, and you can help to eliminate dishonorable ones if you can spot them cheating.
Post your win or loss immediately after the game. Then, review it.
After the game, it's polite to interact with your opponent some. Congratulate them if they won or tell them they played a good game if they lost. If you lose, however, and it seemed like you played a good game but still got creamed, you may want to go back and review the savegame files. You can not do so until both players have reported the outcome of the game to ToH and it has been recorded. Once it has, I'd recommend you review the game carefully. Note that in order to review the savegames, you'll need your opponent's password. Once the game has been recorded, you can ask for it, either through private chat on GAMESPY, or through e-mail. You can find your opponent's e-mail address by examining their record on the ToH site. Each ToH player is required to have an active e-mail address, and most players will politely respond to your querry and give you their savegame password, after the game has been recorded. Be patient. If your opponent won honorably, you'll be able to learn how he or she beat you if you review the game. This will help you to improve your strategy. If your opponent cheated, you should be able to spot the cheating. Watch for creatures in your opponent's army that appear out of nowhere. Closely examine your opponent's artifacts, and then open an earlier savegame. Use your opponent's creatures to run around the map and see if you can locate those artifacts. Most importantly, look at the levels of his or her heroes at the end of the game. Keep in mind that on the average medium map there are only between 400,000 to 600,000 experience points available, and you'd have to kill everything on the map to get them, plus you'd have to visit every power-up available (treasure chests, learning stones, etc.) Some medium maps have very few neutrals to kill, and some have very few power-ups, making the available experience point total even lower. So, if your opponent has three 25th lvl. heroes (for a combined total of 807,000 experience points) on a medium map, you can be almost certain that some cheating was going on. Note that, once you have your opponent's savegame password, you can't really contest the game. This is because you can make it look like your opponent cheated. If you're nearly certain your opponent cheated, don't get his or her password, and don't even attempt to look at the savegame files. Instead, report to the ToH Honor Council that you'd like to contest the game. Be polite, and never accuse your opponent of cheating. Instead, let the honor council handle it. E-mail the current head of the Honor council with your complaint. Here's the URL to the ToH page that explains your available avenues of recourse: http://toheroes.com/honor/honor.html.
Enjoy the game.
Last, but not least, enjoy the competition. Most ToH players are honorable people who play Heroes IV very well, and ToH is the best way to meet strong players and test your skills against them. Even if you lose, you can hold your head up high and know you played with true honor.
Edits:
- Corrected lots of spelling errors. There may be more still. I won't be offended if you help me with those.
- Corrected various typos.
- As per japjer's comments, I softened the language in the section on dropping the game. Added that it's polite to offer an explanation for the drop. Also added the "random town" issue to the turn 1 drop section.
- As per Archie's comments, I added Heroes IV to the introductory notes.
- As per LichKing's comments, made it clear that Honor Council will not enforce player-made rules. Made it clear that turn 1 drops are not acceptable. Completely reversed position on the savegame issue. Changed the "review game" section to make it clear that games should be reported immediately, and only then may they be reviewed.
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Targan
Known Hero
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posted December 01, 2002 05:26 PM |
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AVOID PLAYING GAMES WITH PEOPLE THAT PASSWORD PROTECT THEIR GAMES???????????????
i dont agree with you there Laelth its important to be able to save and knowing your opponent cant check the savefile...
you can never know for sure if a game will be saved or not cuz some games can go on 10hours+ (yes i know most games are finished in 4-5 hours but you never know)
If you suspect cheating you can say you want the password before you report the game, if its not given to you then you should contact the honor counsil and if the player dont give the password to them then its something fishy going on and i suppose that the honor counsil can take action against a player that not give the password!!!
(maybe someone in the honor counsil can respond to this if im wrong?)
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 05:30 PM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 1 Dec 2002
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TARGAN:
I wondered what the community's response would be to that particular piece of advice (about password-protected games). In many ways, I agree with you. You simply never know when you might be called away from a game. I may have to change that part of the document. For the moment, however, I want to leave it and see what other people say.
Thanks for your response.
-Laelth
Edit: Made it clear what issue was being discussed and to whom I was speaking.
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Kujo
Known Hero
who loves to script.
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posted December 01, 2002 05:48 PM |
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Very nice Laelth. Even though I don't participate in TOH, if I did this would definately benefit me  . Good job on the whole thing.
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guten tag
du bist schwul.
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japjer
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 01, 2002 05:56 PM |
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'so if you've entered into a game that doesn't feel right for you, drop on turn 1. That way your opponent can not claim that game as a win, and you won't have to post a loss. '
oookaaayy...that's never right. even when the host changes a setting after you clicked ready, you shouldn't just drop. you can demand a restart and only if your opponent doesn't grant you that, you can leave.
also in the example you gave of being tricked in a game, you did it yourself. you asked no GM necromancy or no necro at all. remember that with necro, people generally think of it as the town, not the skill, so it was fair for the opponent to assume you agreed not to pick necro(polis).
i agree with everything targan said, i always use pass-protect unless i've played my opponent several times before.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 06:03 PM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 1 Dec 2002
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Thanks Kujo.
japjer:
If the host changes the game settings, I think you have every right to drop. You may want to re-start, or you may be so turned off that you won't want to play that person ever again. It might be a simple mistake, or it might not. Either way, nobody can claim a win on turn one, and nobody should have to play a game on terms they don't like.
Quote:
also in the example you gave of being tricked in a game, you did it yourself. you asked no GM necromancy or no necro at all. remember that with necro, people generally think of it as the town, not the skill, so it was fair for the opponent to assume you agreed not to pick necro(polis).
The author of that anecdote admits that he made a mistake, but this guide is for newbies. Not every newbie is going to know that "no necro" means you can't choose a death town. I suppose I should add something to the document about learning game-specific jargon. 
Thanks for your comments.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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notmytohhandle
Known Hero
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posted December 01, 2002 06:26 PM |
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Curious.
U talk about gamespy interface and how tricky it is. Therefor i assume that u were talking about toh members and players for the game HOMM4. But then i saw u saying that to negotiate rules are half the game in HOMM3.
But only very few ppl play HOMM3 via gamespy.
Most HOMM3 players use the msn gaming zone to play.
Nice document tho and i always want to encourage ppl who contribute to more and better gaming.
/archie.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 06:32 PM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 1 Dec 2002
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Quote:
U talk about gamespy interface and how tricky it is. Therefor i assume that u were talking about toh members and players for the game HOMM4. But then i saw u saying that to negotiate rules are half the game in HOMM3.
Did I say Heroes III somewhere? If so, I need to correct that. This document is specifically intended for ToH players of Heroes IV, although game negotiations are critical in H3 too. Perhaps I need to make that more clear.
Thanks.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted December 01, 2002 07:57 PM |
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Well, I'll say first that i think it's great that you've put so much effort into a guide geared towards helping new players - however, i'm afraid i don't agree with much of it.
If i was a new player, my reaction to reading this i think, would be just to simply avoid playing! In general it sounds as tho you're describing ToH as a horrible cut-throat environment where new players are simply prey to the sharks...
Advising players to drop? Telling them not to play 2 minute turns? Why not play 2 minute turns? lol In HeroesIV they've eliminated chaining, as well as the number of heroes you manage per turn, 2 minutes is a breeze - i don't see any reason why anyone should need more, and if they do that's fine as well - but why tell new players not to play 2 minutes?
Telling players that they shouldn't report until after reviewing saves? Players should report right after the game, its the easiest way to keep games from being on the unreported list, or from being forgotten altogeher. If you review saves after reporting and find evidence of cheating then you contact the honor council, and if they find that the player did cheat they will remove it from your record.
I'm sorry, i am sure you mean well - but in my opinion this guide is very negative, and just casts a bad light on the tourney and its players..
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted December 01, 2002 07:58 PM |
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HI their Laelth,
For the most part I think your document is agreeable, howver many of your "honorable or not issues" are far from correct.
Point1: Password protecting saves. It is not dishonorable to do this, in fact for me its a safety feature as much as anything. Where I don't know even 1/8 of the online heroes community for H4 personally, I prefer to have those save files protected. PLayers who wish to cheat will cheat regardless. They will be caught and banned.. 90% of the players you will see playing Heroes4 for any amount of time are not going to cheat.
2: Dishonorable or suspicious to look in the map editor? LOL I don't think so.
(Honorable or not) Mutual advantage, disadvantages are neither honorable or not. For example if both have access to a map in the editor whats dishonorable about it..
Things only become dishonorable when one player keeps an advantage secret. and by saying this I don't mean an in game advantage such as having a desirable skill or artifact.. For Example. I would even go so far as to say if before a game its agreed that cheat codes were allowed, those two players using them vs each other are playing an honorable game. Dishonor is advantageous behavior that is not accessable to the opponent, and does not occur in the normal run of a game.
I am being rushed out of the house now.. so I'll have to comment more later.
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 08:19 PM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 1 Dec 2002
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Destro23,
Thanks for the well-reasoned comments. Let me address two of them.
Quote:
Password protecting saves. It is not dishonorable to do this, in fact for me its a safety feature as much as anything. Where I don't know even 1/8 of the online heroes community for H4 personally, I prefer to have those save files protected. PLayers who wish to cheat will cheat regardless. They will be caught and banned.. 90% of the players you will see playing Heroes4 for any amount of time are not going to cheat.
As I said in my comments to TARGAN, above, I was most concerned with how the community would respond to this particular bit of advice. Again, I'll change that if there's a concensus that password-protect is the norm. If so, the document should be changed. BTW, I didn't call people who ask for password-protected games "dishonorable."
Quote:
Dishonorable or suspicious to look in the map editor? LOL I don't think so.
I think I said that it's debatable as to whether or not this practice is honorable. If the community's concensus is that it's honorable, then I'll change the document to reflect that concensus. Nevertheless, newbies (just to be on a level playing field) need to be aware that this is a fairly common practice, and my guide makes them aware.
In general, I agree with your assertion that a game is fair when conditions are equal and mutually agreed upon (e.g. where both players have the same access to the map editor, or both agree to use cheat codes, etc.) What new players lack is the knowledge that these things are available when they're not discussed openly. When was the last time someone asked you if it's OK to look at the map editor during a game? A newbie might not know that this community considers that honorable (if it does).
Either way, thanks for raising some more important issues for us to consider.
Regards,
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 01, 2002 08:40 PM |
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Quote:
I'm sorry, i am sure you mean well - but in my opinion this guide is very negative, and just casts a bad light on the tourney and its players..
I understand your feelings. Perhaps I should put this part of the document first?
It says:
Quote:
Last, but not least, enjoy the competition. Most ToH players are honorable people who play Heroes IV very well, and ToH is the best way to meet strong players and test your skills against them. Even if you lose, you can hold your head up high and know you played with true honor.
Or would that not be enough? Do I need to be more empahtic?
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted December 01, 2002 09:29 PM |
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The guide is RIGHT!
If it casts bad light on the tourney itīs because of the tourney, not the guide.
Stop trying to cover up the shiet please. That sucks. It needs airing.
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted December 02, 2002 02:29 AM |
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Players should read the Honor Council pages before making any pregame rules. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the Honor Council will not even consider pregame agreements/player-made rules when handling a dispute. They simply are not a factor.
Laelth, your situation with the 'No necro' rule is a perfect example of how one player can interpret a rule quite differently from another player's perception of what was agreed upon. This is one reason why 'no rules' is the current (and longstanding) ToH policy.
Also, it is not advisable to simply 'drop' from a game on day 1 because something has transpired that you don't agree with. It only provides fuel for a heated argument or dispute. Something to consider is if this were acceptable, many people would abuse the freedom to drop simply because they didn't like the town/hero class/art/etc they started with and they believe that day 1 drops are perfectly acceptable.
The best way to deal with a situation like this is to ask your opponent for a restart and to give him the reason why you want one, whether it is because he changed a setting at the last minute or whatever the case may be. If he refuses, the next step would to be to inform him that you do not agree with what has transpired, you are leaving the game, and that you intend to contact the honor council about the situation.
Save passwords are the best thing to come from HoMM4, IMO. If a player drops from a game and doesn't return for a few minutes, there's little room for his opponent to believe that he is viewing saves. Ask any vet if this has been a issue in the past--I'm sure you'll appreciate what I'm saying, lol
Last thing--It is never acceptable to view a save before the reports are made and the game has been recorded. This goes for having a friend view the save for you, as well. Even if the game is over. Period. I can't stress this enough.
Correcting player records is a really simple matter. If you feel that you have been cheated, either report your loss and then check the saves or, better still, send your saves in to the HC before you report and state your case.
The idea behind your guide is good and honorable, Laelth, but some of your suggestions are a bit off base.
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 02, 2002 03:08 AM |
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LichKing,
Thanks for clarifying some things for me. This is exactly what I needed--an "official" response about how ToH would deal with such matters. Before I go edit the post, however, let me respond to a few things:
Quote:
Players should read the Honor Council pages before making any pregame rules. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the Honor Council will not even consider pregame agreements/player-made rules when handling a dispute. They simply are not a factor.
While ToH will not enforce these agreements, they happen all the time, and they're an important part of the game. That's why I felt the need to discuss them. However, I will re-work the document to make it clear that the Honor Council will not enforce these player-made rules.
Quote:
Laelth, your situation with the 'No necro' rule is a perfect example of how one player can interpret a rule quite differently from another player's perception of what was agreed upon. This is one reason why 'no rules' is the current (and longstanding) ToH policy.
And that's a good policy. I agree. BTW, I put that story in anecdote form so that people wouldn't assume I was talking about my own experience. If that had happened to me, I wouldn't admit it publicly.
Quote:
Also, it is not advisable to simply 'drop' from a game on day 1 because something has transpired that you don't agree with. It only provides fuel for a heated argument or dispute. Something to consider is if this were acceptable, many people would abuse the freedom to drop simply because they didn't like the town/hero class/art/etc they started with and they believe that day 1 drops are perfectly acceptable.
I thought I did mention the town/hero/class/art thing. Still, it's clear that this community does not consider turn 1 drops to be ethical, so that part of the document will have to be changed. Thanks for the official word on that.
Quote:
Save passwords are the best thing to come from HoMM4, IMO. ... It is never acceptable to view a save before the reports are made and the game has been recorded. This goes for having a friend view the save for you, as well. Even if the game is over. Period. I can't stress this enough.
Clearly, that section will have to be changed too. Again, thanks for the official word. Should I add that new players should alwayschoose to save-protect games they host?
Quote:
Correcting player records is a really simple matter. If you feel that you have been cheated, either report your loss and then check the saves or, better still, send your saves in to the HC before you report and state your case.
In this case, what I worry is that new players won't even suspect they've been cheated unless they can look at the savegames themselves. Honor Council doesn't want everybody complaining about every game. If you can check the savegame, then you can see whether or not you even want to contest a questionable outcome. Still, it seems that HC's position on this issue is rock hard and not going to change, so I'll make the necessary changes.
Again, thanks for the "official" word.
Regards,
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted December 02, 2002 04:37 PM |
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preach it Pandora!! 
ps:i found a syntax error in sentence : {LAELTH'S GUIDE TO ONLINE PLAY FOR TOH BEGINNERS}-correct sentence should be: TOH ONLINE BEGINNER LAELTH'S GUIDE TO PLAY
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 02, 2002 07:54 PM |
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Quote:
ps:i found a syntax error in sentence : {LAELTH'S GUIDE TO ONLINE PLAY FOR TOH BEGINNERS}-correct sentence should be: TOH ONLINE BEGINNER LAELTH'S GUIDE TO PLAY
Insatiable, you're so clever! And such a fun person to be around too! How do you manage to be such a pleasant person all the time?
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 03, 2002 12:28 AM |
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lol, i keep looking at that last post, and i cant figure out if that's sarcasm or not
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted December 03, 2002 03:59 AM |
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afterall..
..Laelth is an arti'sTTT..
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 03, 2002 05:15 AM |
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Edited By: zud on 30 Sep 2003
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Laelth,
Thanks for all the work here. Great to see.
I had some problems with generalizations on the second two WATCH OUT FOR's though I do understand the point too. I just think many people might not.
I didn't take time to read all in detail yet at the moment, but that was something I would think needs some fixing because they rule out veryyy many kind a nice players for noobs to play (especially this early in the life of H4).
If it is not in the guide then I suggest serious attention to making saves be given as well. I started a guide for noobies about 3 times and never got it completely done with satisfaction in the past. But seriously a noob won't be a noob for long if they make good saves and review their games. People need to know how to make saves without losing any turn time and to make "data accurate" saves too.....on a per turn basis. Simply renaming autosaves take care of this. They also need to be educated in how to make a screenshot and how to convert it to a .jpg from a bitmap for sending to players who have phone connections (though playing with one in h4 is troublesome too at the moment).
Hmm..... be back later.
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