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| Thread: Secondary skills |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 11, 2002 07:36 PM |
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Secondary skills
hi, just wanted to know what you people prefer as secondary skills
My faves are:
earth magic, air magic, intelligence, wisdom, water magic, offense, archery, logistics
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted December 12, 2002 08:11 AM |
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It depends on what hero I have.
When using a magician I try to get wisdom  earth magic, fire magic, air magic, armorer, offense, sorcery (not with the barbarian magician though).
When using a might hero: Wisdom, earth magic, air magic, armorer, offense, and the rest comes as they comes 
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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Commando
Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
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posted December 12, 2002 02:35 PM |
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I'd take water magic over air magic any day: I find that mass bless, mass cure, mass forgetfulness and mass prayer far outweigh all expert-level air spells (except for fly and dimension door, which are usually banned anyway). Tactics is a sine qua non for might heroes, maybe slightly less so for magic heroes. Sorcery becomes virtually pointless on maps featuring huge battles.
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted December 12, 2002 03:12 PM |
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Tactics is very good in the start of a game, and when you have for example unupgraded efreeti or dragons, so that you can reach the othe side of the battlefield in the first round.
Yes, Water magic is good with its beneficials, but expert haste, lightning, dim door and fly is spells that gives you a huge tactical advantage, and I mean that banning spells like this is just cowardly! It also gives towns with a five lvl guild a disadvantage. So I usually don't play with such rules anyway (this is also a fact for many other players I think) If you cast you're water magic, (say bless, coz getting prayer is much harder (plz don't argue with: there is tons of 4th lvl scrolls on the map)than getting haste) then you move. My turn, I cast my mass haste, and attacks all you're units twice, and I can also cast a spell first in the second round. This does not mean that water magic is bad (coz if you first cast mass haste in the first round, and then mass bless in the second, you'll have an extreme advantage, right?)
I agree that Water magic is powerful, but not alone, coz if one of the heroes have only air, and the other only water, then the one with air will probably win.
However, water magic combined with air magic is great! (or any other magic skill, water magic is great as a "secondary" secondary skill anyway)
Sorcery is not useless in big battles when u have you're high power magician! I'll just say that if you think sorcery with that kind of hero is useless, then I think Commando should sit down in front of his computer and play other heroes than just might ones
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted December 12, 2002 03:31 PM |
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These are my must have skills: Armorer, Leadership (except when playing a death main, then Necromancy), Logistics and Offense. Pathfinding is a must in maps with a lot of bad terrain.
The rest heavily depends on the town I play, the artifacts I get and the spells in the guilds I encounter. Wisdom is not always required as you can find tomes or the spellbinders hat. Decision about choice of magic skill is made after getting powerful spells. I prefer fire most, then earth, then water and then air, but it all depends on the spells I get.
Other skills that are worth considering are imo Tactics, Ballistics, Archery and in some cases Resistance. These heavily depend on army type though.
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Commando
Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
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posted December 12, 2002 03:49 PM |
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Uhm, my dear Lord Lazy, a level-88 sorcery specialist with 99 spell power, the orb of silt and expert implosion will kill 69 Ancient Behemoths... not very useful if you're facing 4000 of them, is it?
Prayer also adds a bonus to attack and defense and is not offset by slow, whereas haste is. Fly and D-door work well enough even without air magic expertise. Having said this, both schools have their pros and cons but in the end I still prefer water magic, definitely.
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 12, 2002 03:59 PM |
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Why leadership? I mean, there are loads of ways to boast morale but there aren't any ways to boast other skills (like damage done by creatures etc)
So I think that's a waste of space anyways (and btw, I never get any morale and my nme always does  )
Why do you prefer fire magic? I think that is the worst
magic skill. I mean, there are few advantages with expert fire magic above having no fire magic (the good ones can be
bloodlust, curse, frenzy, berserk and fire elemental) and there are way better spells from earth, air and water magic
And why do you prefer ballistics as well? I mean, that is just another waste of space imo. When I attack a castle, I know for sure my army is nig enough to don't lose creatures big time.
Tactics. hmmm. Another **** skill imo. it might be a bit handy in combat but after all, it is a waste of space and there are way better skills anyways.
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted December 12, 2002 04:18 PM |
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Quote:
Uhm, my dear Lord Lazy, a level-88 sorcery specialist with 99 spell power, the orb of silt and expert implosion will kill 69 Ancient Behemoths... not very useful if you're facing 4000 of them, is it?
No, but what if you have a level 99 hack with 99 defence and offence and 1 ancient behemoth and I have a level 1 mage with 5 spellpower and 3 knowledge and basic implosion and 1 gold dragon?
Not so useful with that AB then. Foo
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Commando
Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
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posted December 12, 2002 04:24 PM |
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Quote:
Not so useful with that AB then. Foo
Pray, do get out the oil and vinegar
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted December 12, 2002 04:49 PM |
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Quote:
Why leadership? I mean, there are loads of ways to boast morale but there aren't any ways to boast other skills (like damage done by creatures etc)
So I think that's a waste of space anyways (and btw, I never get any morale and my nme always does )
In large maps, often in medium maps with underground too, you will face a small number of battles that greatly decimate your army. Especially if there are multiple opponents. After such a fight, you will not always have the same troops available as you did in your starting town. Or you find a magical garden and recruit fearie dragons, you know what I mean... Either way, you start mixing armies. To cover that loss of morale I'd sacrifice one skill slot to Leadership, rather than being unable to equip a major or relic artifact. It is not always necessary, but it even comes in handy if you have no morale problems.
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Why do you prefer fire magic? I think that is the worst
magic skill. I mean, there are few advantages with expert fire magic above having no fire magic (the good ones can be
bloodlust, curse, frenzy, berserk and fire elemental) and there are way better spells from earth, air and water magic
When I started playing, and even a long period of time after, I thought air and earth magic to be the best, followed by water and then fire. Why has this changed? Not because of the damage spells, I think casting a damage spell is a waste of magic. But these spells are what makes fire so great at expert proficiency: Sacrifice(sooo much more effective than resurrect), Berserk(has made me win battles I didn't have the slightest chance), Slayer(+8 attack makes a big difference), Frenzy(not useful in a lot of situations, but great on no retal creatures or if enemy stack is blinded), Fire Shield(can also come in very handy, though also advisable in specific situations), Armageddon(the bomb in some battles  ), Blind(need I explain... and no retal!), Curse(cancels bless and enemy creatures attack like whimps), Bloodlust(+6 attack for all is very nice)
To be honest, most higher level spells for earth are pretty bad. Town Portal is nice, but no good in combat, Resurrection can come in handy sometimes, Sorrow is an okay spell, Anti magic sometimes is useful. But it's mainly the lowest level earth spells that rock. Shield, Slow and Stone Skin. To have them as mass spells is a nice advantage.
Water has a number of very nice spells too. Prayer, Clone, Teleport, Mirth sometimes, Weakness, Dispel, Cure and Bless. Personally I like earth better than water, but not much.
Air is the worst imo, two of the best adventure spells, that's true. But those are no good if the rules forbid you to use them. Then what remains? Counterstrike, Air Shield, Precision, Fortune? Nah, those aren't great spells. Haste is, but I rather have exp earth and slow + a couple of other nice spells.
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And why do you prefer ballistics as well? I mean, that is just another waste of space imo. When I attack a castle, I know for sure my army is nig enough to don't lose creatures big time.
I agree that there are a couple of town armies that don't really benefit from Ballistics, but other towns do. Since this skill only helps for siege combat, it's always a second pick for me too. But when playing Fortress or Stronghold, I often take Ballistics when it comes along. Having those Chaos hydras, Mighty Gorgons and Greater Basilisks in(same goes for Behemoth and Ogre Magi), the second(when you have tactics) or third turn in, when shooters are camping behind the walls, is sometimes the only way to win. An extra cool thing is that it allows you to cast a spell first, before the enemy, during a siege. Even if you have slower creatures!
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Tactics. hmmm. Another **** skill imo. it might be a bit handy in combat but after all, it is a waste of space and there are way better skills anyways.
First of all it is always good to be able to position your creatures in the best way to fight your opponent before the action starts. Secondly it allows you to send your melee creatures ahead. Suppose you can cast a spell first and pick mass slow, then all of your creatures have the first strike advantage!
The other options for secondary spells just arent that good for a main hero imo. Sure artillery can be nice for a defending hero, diplomacy if allowed is also extremely good, estates, scholar, ... They are all useful for scouts but for a main they suck.
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted December 12, 2002 06:21 PM |
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Ditto!
I often uses dungeon or inferno, and one sorcery hero.
If I then get arma, you better pray.
So one of the reasons I prefer fire magic is "just in case"
Also as stated above, fire magic also have some other nice spells
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 12, 2002 06:58 PM |
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I have to say that I disagree on you thinking diplomacy sucks on a main hero. need to see those lots of titants join your army, which makes victory a lot closer.
And btw, Armageddon does loads of damage, whther you have fire magic or not.
Anyone knows a cool map to play or download? because i'm bored of AB maps and i don't have any other version of HOMM 3.
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted December 12, 2002 07:04 PM |
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FunBun???
Have you actually tried armageddon?
*No*
LordLazy hears the answer
Coz you not only get higher damage, but tha spell is also cheaper, which means you can cast it more often (wow!) and that means that you can kill even more neutrals on randoms with few wells, which again means that you can gain more experience even faster, which means that u got an even greater chance of winning the game.
Amen
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 01:14 PM |
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rofl. I know it's benefits.
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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I
Famous Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 02:55 PM |
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BIG???
Say'ya did anyone talk about spells that are improved by expert Fire magic to such level when you can kill almost every hero with no casiualties? (ofcourse when you have at least half of your opponents army).
Example Armageddon. If we are Conflux, Dungeon or even Inferno Armageddon gives you great power. Who will win with a hero who has... ummm lets say 30 Power and 10 Gold or Black Dragons???
A whole population of three castles won't resist such a spell.
Another surperior spell is BERSERK. If you cast that on center of your opponents army when the battle starts four stack's of creatures will attack themselves!
A great part of his army will be not only uselless but also his enemy!
And lets don't forget about Fury (Or sthg likre that) - it is the spell that improves your units to massive killers!
(that depends ofcourse).
Another matter is Diplomacy the skill that on bigger maps is a Joker.
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Yoghurt!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted December 13, 2002 03:36 PM |
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Don't forget something about Expert Earth and Air: you need them on at least one hero.
View Earth and View Air are a must in most cases.
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 03:43 PM |
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I agree, vier air and view earth are pretty good spells
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 04:34 PM |
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Btw, Nidhgrin, why do you think sacrifice is soooo much more eeffective than resurrect? I never use sac but I always use res. can you explain plsss
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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FunBun
Hired Hero
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posted December 13, 2002 04:40 PM |
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I mean, when you sac a creature, it disappears from the battlefield.
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never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beats you with experience
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted December 13, 2002 05:13 PM |
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@csarmi: You have a point there that one of your heroes needs expert air magic to cast that very important view air, but thats easy enough to come by for one of your scouts imo. Doesn't necessarily have to be a main hero skill.
@FunBun: Diplomacy on a main hero is a wasted skillslot. It's easy enough to let one of your scouts attain it, and there are a couple of heroes that start with it already, which is great. Just lending your main army to that hero for some nice joins is one of the things you do when chaining. Why should the main hero need this spell?
Losing creatures through Sacrifice... Ah! That's the reason why I used to dislike the spell too. But, you should try it once, you'll learn to love it! The effects are unbelievable. Allow me to explain: For me, a good main hero has a high attack and defense. Spell power and knowledge are also important, but they're usually much lower. Let's suppose you have a spell power of 20, and 200 spellpoints available. You have both exp earth and fire (though it should be noted that without atleast advanced earth magic the creatures aren't permanently revived). To cast one Resurrection, you'll need 16 spellpoints. It is able to restore (20 * 50) + 160 hitpoints, that's a total of 1160. Almost 4 ancient behemoths for example. To cast one Sacrifice, you pay 20 spellpoints. It will restore (20 + standard health + 10) * amount, or (standard health + 30) * amount. Suppose you sacrifice 200 Goblins, in that case you'll be able to restore 7000(35 * 200) hitpoints! This is more than 23 ancient behemoths!!! To accomplish this with Resurrect, you'd need 6 turns and 96 spellpoints. True, the sacrificed stack is gone forever, but in critical phases in the game, you may need those extra level 6 or 7 creatures or die. If you have blinded all opponent creatures and have plenty of spellpoints and a possibility to replenish them nearby, Resurrection can be a great spell. But I rather use it at basic proficiency to temporarily raise fodder stacks.
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