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| Thread: Fake Map reporting!!!!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 25, 2003 05:57 PM |
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Fake Map reporting!!!!!!
Just wanted to clarify this for all TOH players.
There are now 48 posted maps on TOH page. ANd it has been Offical for some time now that you are ONLY allowed to play maps for TOH that are listed and posted on TOH site.
You are not allowed to play any map that is NOT in the list as an option. ** Note that Vesuvius removed the " Unlisted map " option for a reason. I have heard recently some veteran players are playing maps posted on other websites then agreeing with there opponent to report that they played a different map. That is dishonest and in TOH's mind it is a form of cheating the system. Non the less cheating is cheating.
So just be warned that from this point on if you get caught or turned in for trying to play different maps and reporting under a different map name, it will probably not look good in front of the Honour COuncil.
If you have a map that is posted on a different site that you think deserves to be on TOH site, and you want to play it for TOH then submit it to Map Council and let them approve it. Then when and IF they post it on TOH you can play it for TOH tourny then. 
Jinxer
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zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted January 25, 2003 08:55 PM |
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Whaa Whaa
I personally have done this, I do not try to make a secret of it, In fact I ask opponent and I put in the details what map we actually played and a request to add it to TOH page.
It's not like the fact is trying to be hidden and If I see map council members, I tell them to add maps I have found new and fun also.
P.S. (add Battle of the Bastards (remake) to the map page)
If it is all up front, whats the big deal?
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Winner or Whiner?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 25, 2003 09:14 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 25 Jan 2003
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Yea I agree ZUD .... HELL with the Rules. Who needs them. Infact Vesuvius I would just delete the rules page all together....
Hell all this time all I had to do was be upfront with Editing map and it was all okay. Now ya tell me. Sheesh.
Jinxer
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted January 25, 2003 09:34 PM |
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Jinxer is miss your tossing for h3 (he rushed me month3!!!) - when do ya throw that h4 away and come back to real mens gaming 
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zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted January 25, 2003 10:06 PM |
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Yes, this never happened in H3
Lol, peeps just reported using random if map wasnt listed. Please tell me what is really wrong with this or do u just want everyone to play Genesis?
If I test a new map blind with a friend and we want game to count for TOH. or if map council isnt active whats the big problem?
and yes, u can edit maps and be upfront about it...its called clans of axeoth.
Its the same difference if someone played the 1.2 version of genesis since its not officially posted. or...how is that different?
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Winner or Whiner?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 25, 2003 10:39 PM |
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Please forget that I even mentioned it. I dont personally care what anyone does. I was just trying to do my duty as a TOH administrator but... people do as they wish anyways. I will just let Ves speak up from now on if he thinks the issue is important. SO unless Ves says anyways play what ever maps ya want and report however ya want. Have Fun!!!! ANyone for a small map?? We can report it as anything we want
Jinxer
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 26, 2003 06:36 AM |
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A SOLUTION
Jinxer is right... but there is a solution to this as well. The situation in homm3 was that we had random maps, and there were many more maps to play for ToH.
So the solution is simple: Active members can email me or the map council popular map names that are not on maps page yet (or ever will be) -- and direct us to where it is found. Once we see it is an official map on whatever site, we will then add it to the maps submission list on the winloss program. It may never appear on ToH maps, or it may, but whatever the case, this way it will correctly list what the map is.
Always a simple way to do things
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 26, 2003 06:48 AM |
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Great Idea Vesuvius. HOwever I do have one question? SO if any map that is offically posted on another website is added simply by request...then what exactly is the map council needed for? They spend countless hours going over maps and making sure they are balanced and properly made for TOH quality Ladder tourny maps etc, and now any joe smoe that got his map posted on Heroes4.com site can have his map played for TOH?
That is fine with me, I am not gonna rock the boat. I say if thats what people want go for it. But seems kinda of silly to even have a map council then. Just do away with map council and say any map posted on any site is free game no matter what the quality?...
IF however, the requested/suggested maps were sent to mapcouncil to look over and they give it there thumbs up as in the map fits the TOH criteria, then they add it to TOH.
Anyways, just some thoughts...
Jinxer
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted January 26, 2003 04:45 PM |
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agree with Jinxer
well i find myself in a strange position indeed. not to often i agree with the ole jinxer guy. The last time i checked we have a map council to check maps to be sure of play balance and quality in maps. We wouldn't want a repeat of the that nasty dragons map from earlier toh seasons now would we? Now i know zuds a veteran and all, and i would never speak badly of his judgment of maps or there quality, but there is a reason why we have a map COUNCIL, and not a MAP CHECKER UP TO SEE HOW GOOD IT IS GUY. with a group of heads looking at a map there is less chance an advantage or imbalance in a map will slip thru.
If you find a map that is worthy of the map councils notice then by all means submit it. But to be registering wins and losses on a map that has not been approved is asking for trouble. there's to much opportunity for abuse by dishonest players. players like zud i'm not so worried about, but all players are not like zud.
what if there's a dispute to be sent to the honor council? with an unregistered map how do they make a descision?
are a few points worth so much that we should start undermining one of the main supports of our tourney? namely the map council?
ps. nice comments andi, but this issue is the same for both homm3&4. jinxer raises a valid point for both tourneys not just homm 4
pps. ves ya still on holidays? because it looks like yer thought process still is!!  hehehehe
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 26, 2003 09:27 PM |
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ah but you miss something boah
we arent undermining the map council at all.... It would be for free challenge only, as it gives more 'freedom' to players... the whole point of success of ToH was we gave minimal guidelines to what the player wanted to do in free challenge.
You still would need to play a ToH map for clan wars and other tournaments.
Do not forget the situation we have here in homm4, our 3d0 friends fudged the terrain and hurt multiplayer pretty bad. So one needs to look at the grand scheme of things and do what is best for the tournament.
Anyways, only a dozen people will read this post, its only for the hardcore few who just 'may' submit a map request. This idea will not wreck the foundations of the world or anything, but facilitate more activity by good players.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2003 09:28 PM |
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I am sorry, i was away for the weekend, i was the one who played zud on Battle of Bastards reporting on Heart, but we just wanted a new map and the ToH bragging rights, if we have done something wrong u can just disregard that game, and take it off our record, i wouldn't mind at all (I lost) , and maybe u can take all my games with zud off my record
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 12:05 AM |
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I think Valkyrica and Zud r in love cause I can't figure out why Valkyrica keep accepting Zud maps and Zud never plays on any other maps
Maybe they share the same horse ?
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 12:50 AM |
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Just a few thoughts
This doesn't seem to have the same flavor as fake reporting in my sight and I would think the rest of the Honor Council would reason pretty similar.
If I remember correctly ToH originally always allowed any maps people agreed on to be played for ToH.
As things progressed, small maps were abandoned because of the "quick-killers" and the scew that playing them could create over time.
The maps page was added so that players could easily keep track of the lastest updates on maps and have easy access to several good maps for play. This helped to keep "errors" from old maps or edited versions from causing Honor issues.
As H4 came along the Map Council is still to further these ideas. Adding the ability to report a map that is not found at the ToH site doesn't undermine the Map Council and the maps they list on ToH. It allows for players to play in a manner that they might enjoy occassionally. The beauty of the Maps that are approved by the Map Council is that they let players know they should have a great game on a well built map, without many troublesome issues that many maps can have if just obtained from a random download location.
ToH is not out to seek to limit players preferences of play, but rather to enhance the playing of the game by creating a competitive community of players to meet and do what they enjoy most in playing in my thinking.
So, I wouldn't worry if I were a person who has reported on a map that isn't listed.
However, there are those who abuse reporting in a different fashion, and those individuals that come along now and then get booted pretty quickly (usually upon discovery). They are those that fake report, make two for one deals, use maps edited to their advantage, use small maps to create quick kills and then coerce others into reporting differently etc.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 27, 2003 02:47 AM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 26 Jan 2003
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Well thanks for the support, MKL. It seems that even my TOH colleagues have abanded any and all support of Jinxer man.
I am still stuck in the traditional Season 1 and Season 2. The greatness of TOH was all there! Those were some amazing times. It seems I have lost track of the direction and the heart of TOH and where is it heading to.
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Note this following statement as copy and pasted from TOH's older new section
"Maps page at 50. [12/8]
The Maps Page now has 40 unique maps and 10 more variants listed, all tested and reviewed by the map council. Not bad for only 4 months of multiplayer. The unlisted map option when reporting your games has now been removed; all ToH games must be played on ToH listed maps only. " - Vesuvius
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It CLEARLY says ALL TOH games must be played with LISTED maps only! Not just clan war games or special tourny games. So Just to clarify, I was merely following the rules and guidlines set forth when I posted this thread and warning. It seems that the written words do not have to be taken so tightly seriously. A General understanding of what is said in TOH and its guidelines are now standard practice.
These are the things I MISS about the first couple seasons of TOH. The integrity of what TOH said was backed up and held its ground. Now it seems that in the quest for ultimate freedom in the tournament, most of the integrity of what is written as far as rules and guidelines dont apply.
I am very confused and frustrated at the moment when writing this and want Rob and Deth8 to not take anything personal here. I have always loved TOH and have poored countless hours into supporting TOH. And will still continue to love TOH for as long as it is open.
I think I will just go back to being the BEHIND the scenes grunt man, doing the mindless updates as needed and requested and leave any and all political, diplomatic, RULE definitions and explanations to Deth and ROB. Seems silly for me to make any attempts to try and guide people on rules and guidelines of the tourny when I myself cannot even understand them anymore.
So I apologize for making this thread and stirring up any trouble.
Jinxer
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted January 27, 2003 03:20 AM |
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Quote:
I am still stuck in the traditional Season 1 and Season 2. It seems I have lost track of the direction and the heart of TOH and where is it heading to.
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So I apologize for making this thread and stirring up any trouble.
Jinxer
Np at all. Lemme try to explain what happened.
NOTE: This is ONLY about toh 3 <--- not at all about homm4 in any way. The reason I didnīt make that clear from the start was that I got to this thread from the index page, didnīt know it was homm4, and part of this is about earlier seasons.
1. Toh was formed and rules were created to take care of problems at that time and the immediate future. You played in toh and loved it.
2. Times changed, and friends left. The rules of toh adapted, not in written form, but as a general understanding and also based on rulings and verdicts from the HC.
The problem: You want to be in time 1, and that collides with the reality of being in time 2. You miss friends that left, and the stability of written rules. To some ppl its important to know EXACTLY what to excpect. Those ppl often play fixed maps with rules, esp no hit&run.
Out of subject but still interesting:
We are on our way to stage 3.
3. Exodus.
I've seen this before. Itīs basically the life of an online organization.
1. A skilled person creates something great, better than the mediocre trash created by others.
2. The golden age begins and ends.
3. Downfall, the original creator leaves.
4. The pieces are picked up by individuals that lack the skill to create something really good, but still desire the power and importance that being at the head of such an organization gives.
5. The general downfall + the bad leadership causes the final deathblow to the organization. Death is slow and creepy, and you donīt notice it, except for the eerie feeling that somehow, something is missing, and there are less friends on today, and you wonder where they went.. :/
Because you know how it goes on the net. People donīt leave.. they just fail to show up.
And then one day.. itīs gone.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 27, 2003 04:10 AM |
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Bjorn -- Can you translate all that into english hehe
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted January 27, 2003 04:27 AM |
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lol I must be either drunk or tired, I canīt see anything wrong with it lol 
did I wwrite in swedish of some thing? haha
its 4 am and I been tired since 11 pm lalalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Duff Gardens!! Hurraaaaaaahh!!!! X-O
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 05:33 AM |
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Well if it is true that it is ok to report using a fake map name, then you may as well go ahead and re-add the "UNLISTED" option.
I mean, either it's allowed or it isnt. Draw the line.
The problem that seems to always occur with such situations is that it starts innocently enough - you give a little leeway, and people take that, and you think you have it under control. But then other less honest people take it to another level. If you show people that its ok to break the rules in one area, then they will apply it to other areas, not just playing an unlisted map and reporting under a fake name.
So I say, if you are going to allow it, make it so that it ISN'T BREAKING THE RULES by reinstating the UNLISTED option. This way people don't think its ok to break the rules.
Cheers,
BC
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 27, 2003 05:53 AM |
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umm bjorn
I never left. If you mean homm3 ToH, well thats a different matter.
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Magus_Rex
Hired Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 07:22 AM |
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as ves states:
we arent undermining the map council at all.... It would be for free challenge only, as it gives more 'freedom' to players... the whole point of success of ToH was we gave minimal guidelines to what the player wanted to do in free challenge.
If two people (or Zud and a person) decided and agree to play a map what is the problem? It is a free challenge, no one forces the games, the rules are decided by the two playing so why should there be a problem with what map? I think that is fairer then some of the other rules such as removing the ability to learn magic resistence in a map 8).
as far as bjorn comments I have one thing to say: Who is John Gault?
And I agree with BC reinstate unlisted map option so we do not have fake reporting. It is better to play by the rules then try and figure ways around them,
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