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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 05:20 AM |
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Hollywood then and now...
Hollywood then and now…
Compare the brave entertainers of 1943 with today’s Hollywood motley bunch.
Letter to the editor,
The entertainers of 2003 have been in all the news media lately. It seems News Paper, Television and Radio has been more than ready to put them and their message before the public.
I would like to remind the people of what the entertainers of 1943 were doing, (60 years ago). Most of these brave men have since passed on.
Alec Guinness (Star Wars) operated a British Royal Navy landing craft on D-Day.
James Doohan (“Scotty” on Star Trek) landed in Normandy with the U.S. Army on D-Day.
Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) really was an R.A.F. pilot who was shot down, held prisoner and tortured by the Germans.
David Niven was a Sandhurst graduate and Lt. Colonel of the British Commandos in Normandy.
James Stewart flew 20 missions as a B-24 pilot in Europe.
Clark Gable (Mega-Movie star when war broke out) was a waist gunner flying missions on a B-17 in Europe.
Charlton Heston was an Army Air Corps Sergeant in Kodiak.
Earnest Borgnine was a U.S. Navy Gunners Mate in 1935-1945.
Charles Durning was a U.S. Army Ranger at Normandy.
Charles Bronson was a tail gunner in the Army Air Corps.
George C. Scott was a U.S. Marine.
Eddie Albert (Green Acres TV) was awarded a Bronze Star for his heroic action as a U.S. Naval officer aiding Marines at the horrific battle on the island of Tarawa in the Pacific Nov. 1943.
Brian Keith served as a Marine rear gunner in several actions against the Japanese on Rabal in the Pacific.
Lee Marvin was a Marine on Saipan when he was wounded.
John Russell was a Marine on Guadalcanal.
Robert Ryan was a U.S. Marine who served with the O.S.S. in Yugoslavia.
Tyrone Power (an established movie star when Pearl Harbor was bombed) joined the Marines, was a pilot flying supplies into, and wounded Marines out of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
Audie Murphy, little guy from Texas, most decorated serviceman of WWII.
I wish I had room to tell you about actor Sterling Hayden and an actor by the name of Peter J, Ortiz (Twelve O’clock High, Rio Grande and The Wings of Eagles), but this would turn into a book.
There is quite a huge gap between the heroics and patriotism in 1943 and the cowardly despicable posturing of the Hollywood crowd today…all of which smack of sedition and treason.
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terje_the_ma...
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posted April 26, 2003 11:01 AM |
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Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but are you indirectly comparing WWII to the '3rd Gulf War'?
I hope you're not, since that wouldn't be fair to the Iraqi people... (I almost wrote Saddam, but then I saw what stupidity THAT would be...)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 01:41 PM |
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Right, You think that the US army needs the current Hollywood crowd? It might of in 1943 when the allies needed every man they could get, but the crisis is hardly of world war proportions. You're also assuming the case for Gulf war 2 is as clear cut and undebateable as WWII which frankly it simply isn't.
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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 02:20 PM |
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Did you read this thing at all?
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 02:29 PM |
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Your point presumably is that the current batch who don't fight in wars are less brave than the ones of 1943 who did fight in the war.
The current batch aren't needed the army america/britain has is sufficent at present, the older ones were, our army then wasn't. The second world war was as close as we're likely to get to a justifiable war with clear cut morality. This one is far from it.
And when last I checked unless there's conscription being enforced, no-one is forced into the armed forces today, unlike WWII. It's nothing to do with patriotism/treason/sedition and everything to do with a morality choice. Are all those civilians who don't sign up treasonous, seditious and unpatriotic too? I mean how dare they disagree and stay away from the army and have their say.
Have you joined the millitary to go and practice what you preach? Does this make you guilty of treason? Whilst accepting that those of 1943 are brave, to label those of 2003 as cowardly or guilty of treason is hypocritical and quite simply wrong IMO.
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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 02:40 PM |
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Quote:
Your point presumably is that the current batch who don't fight in wars are less brave than the ones of 1943 who did fight in the war.
The current batch aren't needed the army america/britain has is sufficent at present, the older ones were, our army then wasn't. The second world war was as close as we're likely to get to a justifiable war with clear cut morality. This one is far from it.
Yes you must be right, removing a bloodthirsty dictator who murders his own people is not a worthy cause, I agree wholeheartedly.
Quote:
Have you joined the millitary to go and practice what you preach? Does this make you guilty of treason? Whilst accepting that those of 1943 are brave, to label those of 2003 as cowardly or guilty of treason is hypocritical and quite simply wrong IMO.
No, I have not joined the military, and it doesn't make me guilty of treason. I AM ONLY 15! So I am not a hypocrit. I bet you didn't know I was 15 did you? Peacemaker already said she thought I was 25 or so. Ok, most are just cowardly, but people like Peter (Benedict) Arnett, Geraldo Rivera, and such are traitors and should be treated as such.
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 02:51 PM |
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All I am saying is that:
A) We have sufficient troop in the army to do what's needed in Iraq
B) People are allowed personal morality, it's part of a democracy if you bothered to remember.
C) Sufficient people do not agree it's justifiable, they are entitled to that opinion if they wish to hold it, the whole reason we have an army is to uphold those rights, not start drafting people against those rights. Loving your country and loving your president/his government's decisions are not the same thing.
D) The war's over unless you've forgotten, all that remains is to restore order and peace.
Whatever your age, and yes I did know it thanks PM told me, you are blatantly going against the democratic principles of your country to demand that people have morale judgements forced on them by others at a time when there is no crisis facing your country. That's hypocrisy, to demand that people fight for the democracy they themselves are denied the right to have.
But since you're so adamant I'll look forward to seeing you join the armed forces at the earliest possible opportunity and seek posting to a conflict zone. After all to do otherwise would be unpatriotic would it not?
Quote:
Ok, most are just cowardly,
There's no such thing as cowardice, you've not been on a battlefield (neither have I, but....) you don't know what it's like to be shot at and shelled. There's nothing wrong about wanting that job to fall to those who get paid to do it and are trained to do it. Frankly I'd avoid war myself unless my country was invaded because otherwise I pay my taxes for others to do that for me.
Quote:
but people like Peter (Benedict) Arnett, Geraldo Rivera, and such are traitors and should be treated as such.
Dunno their stories sorry, got any links? I've not actually heard of them myself to be honest.
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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 03:02 PM |
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Peter (Benedict Arnett, went on Iraqi TV and bashed the U.S. and was talking about how Iraq would win.
Geraldo Rivera, when he was on camera he said something like "let me draw you a map to show you where we are" and he did right there in the sand, showing troop positions, so he was thrown out of Iraq.
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 03:06 PM |
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And this gives you the right to call all Hollywood actors either cowards or traitors because? You're generalising based on 2 people and dubious grounds over the whole patriotism thing.
Granted those 2 are, but they're hardly world-known names are they?
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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 03:13 PM |
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You asked for their stories! There are a lot of the Hollywood crowd that are not like that. But those who are...
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 03:16 PM |
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And I'm grateful for them, I'm just saying your not thinking straight on this whole patriotism thing for the vast majority of these actors, especially those whose sole crime is to not want to go and join the army.
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Wolfman
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posted April 26, 2003 05:15 PM |
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That's not what I mean, bashing the troops and what they are doing is not helping them any.
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privatehudson
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posted April 26, 2003 06:39 PM |
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Well be clearer about your meaning then, your previous posts showed hints of what I mentioned above, not what you are now talking about. Sure it's not pleasant to say those things, and personally I would not either say them or be happy at others saying them, but the individual still has the right to say them if he chooses to do so.
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Khayman
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posted April 26, 2003 10:26 PM |
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My Interpretation
I do not believe that today's Hollywood actors are more cowardly, treasonous, or (add whatever derogatory word you would like here); however, I do believe that they lack the military and service-of-country perspective that the Hollywood actors of the WWII generation did. As the need for military manpower has since decreased since WWII (and dare I say Vietnam), the influential parts of American society, such as politicians and business leaders, have less-and-less of the military perspective embedded in them. I think that was perhaps what Wolfman was trying to say, as comparing WWII to Operation Iraqi Freedom would be preposterous.
The only perspective Hollywood has of today's military is whatever scripts the writers create for the producers. Nowadays, it is overwhelmingly the lower-middle and lower class citizens that comprise the American military, and the only view of the military that the upper-middle and upper class recieve is from the liberal dominated media. So you can see why so many wealthy and educated people resent and rarely support any military action, unless of course, it is to defend something that they own or care about.
Take care, be safe, and peace out!
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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terje_the_ma...
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posted May 03, 2003 12:19 PM |
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Quote:
Peter (Benedict Arnett, went on Iraqi TV and bashed the U.S. and was talking about how Iraq would win.
To quote good old Rage Against the Machine: What? The Land of the Free? / Whoever told you that is your enemy!
Isn't the US supposed to be the 'best people in the world'? (sounds like a certain someone, don't you think?) Then why aren't people allowed to say their opinions? I've heard that all this man (arnett) did, was to ask a few critical Q's about the war, and suddenly he's fired! Hell, i though you were fighting a totalitarian regime!
But I haven't really seen the interview/reportage in which this was said, so I don't really know. Guess I shouldn't have posted, but... Anyone know where this interview/reportage might be found on the net? (Not film clip, but text?)
BTW Wolfman: You're only 15!!?? I though you were like 25 or something! You gotta be the most intelligent (sic) 15 year old person I've ever met!
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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